Rescued Dogs Caged For Years

[Kendra]

I have been following this whole sorry saga on the "rescue" group and the volunteer photographer's Facebook page via a link that was sent to me. A very sad situation indeed.

There has been many offers on Facebook to foster or rehome these five long term dogs but they have had no reply as yet to these offers.

It breaks my heart that while i am sitting here nice and warm next to the fire with my dogs, these dogs are in cold kennels in the west of Sydney.It must be freezing there at night.

Thank you Tootsie Roll for starting the conversation.

[Tootsie Roll]

Thankyou Kendra.

However it looks like the rescue has just gone into its bunker and responded in a nasty abusive manner,swearing at people who post on facebook.

I ,sadly would bet,if we come back in a year most,if not all, of these dogs highlighted will still be where they are now,or hidden somewhere else to deflect questions.I dont know you rehabilitate a dog treated this way.

There appears to be no desire to get these dogs out of the cages just cover ther own backside.

Prayers for these dogs,in a first world country this should not happen.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Tootsie Roll

[_PL_]

Just wasted 5 minutes skimming. I blame you Tootsie Roll the curiosity was too much.

Basically it's a standard social media rescue brawl.

From experience....dealing with a huge rescue brawl that still ended up accomplishing nothing. (Yep this is going to be another "in general" type post)

* A good 50% of posts from either side's supporters are total bullshit.

* Many claiming to have facts or inside proof or whatever often don't have anything useful or concrete ... someone has fed them regurgitated information or they are playing sock puppet.

* Sift out the bystanders, the disgruntled, the morally outraged & the ones who have been waiting ages for a chance to enthusiastically stick a knife into whoever.

* And somewhere under the crap you'll find the simple truth. Mostly after everyone has stopped shouting and moved on to the next outrage.

If that offends anyone then so be it but absolutely nobody in rescue & animal welfare is perfect, without ego, or in it to win friends and please everyone. If you want to help the dogs focus hard on the bit of truth where you can find it and go with that. Ignore the noise.

[~Anne~]

Just wasted 5 minutes skimming. I blame you Tootsie Roll the curiosity was too much.

Basically it's a standard social media rescue brawl.

From experience....dealing with a huge rescue brawl that still ended up accomplishing nothing. (Yep this is going to be another "in general" type post)

* A good 50% of posts from either side's supporters are total bullshit.

* Many claiming to have facts or inside proof or whatever often don't have anything useful or concrete ... someone has fed them regurgitated information or they are playing sock puppet.

* Sift out the bystanders, the disgruntled, the morally outraged & the ones who have been waiting ages for a chance to enthusiastically stick a knife into whoever.

* And somewhere under the crap you'll find the simple truth. Mostly after everyone has stopped shouting and moved on to the next outrage.

If that offends anyone then so be it but absolutely nobody in rescue & animal welfare is perfect, without ego, or in it to win friends and please everyone. If you want to help the dogs focus hard on the bit of truth where you can find it and go with that. Ignore the noise.

Anna, as always your words ring with truth and clarity. Thank you.

Edited July 5, 2016 by ~Anne~

[Tootsie Roll]

Sorry Powerlegs!! Thats 5 minutes of your life you wont get back !!

I had already come to a similar conclusion and have put on my thinking cap as to how I can try and get a positive outcome for these dogs.

I have been given information and it has been confirmed by more than one source,but this relates to the rescues operation,and that is a battle for another day and that wont offer these dogs any improvement in their situation.

[Loving my Oldies]

Just wasted 5 minutes skimming. I blame you Tootsie Roll the curiosity was too much.

Basically it's a standard social media rescue brawl.

From experience....dealing with a huge rescue brawl that still ended up accomplishing nothing. (Yep this is going to be another "in general" type post)

* A good 50% of posts from either side's supporters are total bullshit.

* Many claiming to have facts or inside proof or whatever often don't have anything useful or concrete ... someone has fed them regurgitated information or they are playing sock puppet.

* Sift out the bystanders, the disgruntled, the morally outraged & the ones who have been waiting ages for a chance to enthusiastically stick a knife into whoever.

* And somewhere under the crap you'll find the simple truth. Mostly after everyone has stopped shouting and moved on to the next outrage.

If that offends anyone then so be it but absolutely nobody in rescue & animal welfare is perfect, without ego, or in it to win friends and please everyone. If you want to help the dogs focus hard on the bit of truth where you can find it and go with that. Ignore the noise.

Without a doubt all of the above can apply, but that does not alter the fact that Jules and god knows how many other dogs are being left to languish for years with little or no concern for their happiness.

Your first two dot points are a huge assumption and are no argument at all for denying what you call “the bit of truth”. There is more than a bit of truth to this whole sorry affair and the thread needs a bit more than 5 minutes of skimming before denouncing it as a standard social media rescue brawl. :(

Truth and clarity? Hardly. Generalisation and pushing one’s own barrow.

[_PL_]

I expected that post DD and I'm so bored of you. You have a problem with me. And every time you try to poke holes in my posts by deliberately twisting things it just makes you look petty and strange.

BTW thank you Anne and Tootsie Roll for taking my post as it was intended.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Powerlegs

[sas]

Ok, sooooooo how do we as a community prevent hoarding in rescue from occurring. Is there any point trying to talk to pounds where this rescue obtains its dogs?

[tdierikx]

At least with the pounds, there is a paper trail on each dog taken by the rescue... and this paper trail can be used as evidence of any shortcomings the rescue may have that can be followed up by authorities...

If they are refused animals from the pound system, then they will just source animals from Gumtree or the like... and paperwork/paper trails may not be available.

The problem with hoarders is that they (and their followers) don't believe they have a problem... they are "saving" all these animals, don't you know?

T.

[~Anne~]

Ok, sooooooo how do we as a community prevent hoarding in rescue from occurring. Is there any point trying to talk to pounds where this rescue obtains its dogs?

Yes, I do think speaking with the liaison officers at pounds is worthwhile, however, they can't act unless they have evidence and a Facebook campaign isn't evidence.

That's is the problem with most of these threads and Facebook campaigns. They're generally nasty, bullying and most of the info is often incorrect or exaggerated. If there is reason to act, then it needs to be acted on, but it needs real evidence.

Clause exemptions can be revoked if rescues do not abide by the Companion Animals Act. Gather first hand evidence of any breeches and report them.

The RSPCA can also take action against rescues that breach POCTA. Again, any first hand evidence should be reported to the RSPCA.

Second hand information, rumours and heresay should be avoided, understandably. Find real evidence, and report it to the appropriate agencies.

I'm not sure if rescues kept in such conditions also come under legislation controlling boarding kennels, but it might also be worth a try.

To speak to someone and get advice on each of the areas of legislation, call the NSW Department of Primary Industries and the Office of Local Government. Please note that these agencies can only provide advice about what areas of each Act may be being breached. They are responsible for administering the Acts, not enforcing them.

The actual notification of a breach should be made to the RSPCA and or the NSW Animal Welfare League.

You might also like to speak with the appropriate council where the kennels are located if you believe there may be breaches of council by-laws.

Edited July 7, 2016 by ~Anne~

[Scottsmum]

So I popped over to the facebook page to have a squiz the other day. Found this:

It is fantastic to see such overwhelming support from so many people who want to help Jules and friends find their forever homes! And we wanted to take a minute to address your concerns in relation to the five long term dogs in care.

Thank you to Jo Lyons Photography for taking the time to go out and get these photos for us and so kindly help spread the word online.

However sometimes there is more to a story than what is posted online, and apologies that we have not come back to everyone instantly, unfortunately these photos were taken without our knowledge and the information provided is not entirely accurate, nor at any point where we asked prior to these photos going up, so we never received the opportunity to tell the facts.

BUT YES - JULES NEEDS A HOME! - WE KNOW THIS, HERE ARE THE FACTS -

- Save Our Strays has been running for 8 years as a registered charity and we have rehomed over 1500 dogs/cats in our time, lets break that down for you. That"s approximately 188 dogs and cats a year which in turn is approximately 4 dogs/cats a week. (Prior to this our president has been in the rescue world for over 20 years.) All donations that have been received by SOS have gone towards our extensive vet bills (which anyone in rescue knows can be never ending) boarding fees, and anything else our rescues require, many many times paying out of our own pockets to cover the costs of running a rescue.

- Up until April 2016 we had operated Save Our Strays from the Wags To Whiskers Boarding Facilities - which was not your average kennel environment but a more pleasant and volunteer friendly atmosphere for the dogs to get as much human interaction from the fantastic staff there who were only too happy to co-operate with our constant roster of volunteers, all dogs at this facility were let out and exercised daily and also played with daily by the paid staff and our volunteers. Unfortunately the owners of that property decided to take over the Kennels and turn it back into a breeding facility (which breaks our hearts on so many levels), due to this sad news we had to stop taking in new rescues and in turn our average of 40+ animals in care was drastically reduced as when our rescues were adopted we weren’t able to take more in. We sought out publicly for assistance to help foster our animals in care and were able to find foster homes for all of our cats, and the majority of our dogs, those few dogs that we were not able to find foster families for we had to place into a boarding facility as no one at the time was able to volunteer to help (and we asked many a times … just scroll through our Facebook feed, if only all you kind souls were around then!)

- We would like to point out that although we have just welcomed ‘Ringo & Ramjet’ to our Facebook following, they have actually been with us since we lost our kennels. Their owner is quite ill and they were placed into a foster home by us in the hopes that their owner may recover and they could all be re-united but unfortunately we have received some very sad news that their owner will not be able to leave the nursing home. Which is why they have only now been listed.

- Moving on to JULES the star of the hour, the dog that is winning the hearts of everyone (and we know her personally, so we understand why!). Jules came into our care in 2010 when she was 2 years old and was advertised and rehomed originally in Mid-2010 and was returned about a month later, unfortunately this trend continued where she was adopted (then returned) 2 other times with us. To try and help Jules we have had her assessed by a certified Neapolitan Mastiff breeder and also a certified animal behaviourist/trainer to help us place her in the best home environment to ensure this didn’t happen to her again. We were advised that Jules has resource guarding issues which is not uncommon of females of this breed and she can only be placed in a single dog home with no cats, dogs or kids which does make her a harder dog to place. Jules is available for adoption to the right home, due to her unique personality the means of finding her a forever home are also somewhat unique.

- Mishka was adopted out for around 1 year then her new owners got a new puppy that Mishka did not get along with, so the owners sadly returned Mishka to Save Our Strays. Others have had similar experiences whether it has been in foster or potential forever homes, regardless of the circumstances we will always stand by our dogs and always take them back into our care no matter what, we will never be the ones to give up on them.

- We acknowledge that the length of time these dogs have been in care is not ideal. These dogs have been trialed in homes and foster homes when possible. They all present with a range of behavioural problems that limits their suitability to the vast majority of homes on offer. Which are issues we will continue to address with ALL the dogs that are and will be in our care in the future.

- Whilst in the care of SOS, the dogs have been provided with all necessary vet care, have been fed well and exercised daily. The care of these dogs has been and continues to be well above the minimum standard set out in the Companion Animals Act. We remain COMMITTED to the idea that there is a suitable home out there for ALL dogs despite their history and individual nuances. Although we weren't aware that Jo Lyons had been contacted to take photographs of the dogs, we are grateful for the added exposure that these dogs have been given. We have been inundated with messages and emails and won't be able to respond to people individually.

- Genuine enquiries for dogs will continue to be reviewed as normal and we encourage anyone interested in adopting one of our long termers to fill out the adoption application form here....

*edited to add paragraph breaks for read-ability

Edited July 7, 2016 by Scottsmum

[Steve]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me and nowhere near as it has been presented but no surprises there.

[Scottsmum]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me and nowhere near as it has been presented but no surprises there.

I tend to agree Steve. The only part I have trouble believing is that a well known(ish) photographer - who has done rescue work for years takes it upon herself to wander onto a private property? Randomly select? go rouge? and photograph and highlight 5 animals who have been in long term "care".

I don't buy that. I do not understand how she could have possibly just happened to have picked, photographed and highlighted these dogs - been there without permission - what ever... Unless it was a calculated move on her behalf - I have no doubt they knew she was profiling those dogs. I really do hope they're not deflecting negative attention onto / using her as a scapegoat in this little saga. I hasten to add I do not know the photographer beyond seeing her logo on rescue pages over the years.

[Kendra]

Sadly, i suspect the photographer is being used as a scapegoat to deflect focus from this "rescue" group.

[Loving my Oldies]

I expected that post DD and I'm so bored of you. You have a problem with me. And every time you try to poke holes in my posts by deliberately twisting things it just makes you look petty and strange.

BTW thank you Anne and Tootsie Roll for taking my post as it was intended.

Not half as bored as I am with your constant holier than thou attitude. I don’t have a problem with you; I have a problem with people who lie and misrepresent themselves.

[_PL_]

absolutely nobody in rescue & animal welfare is perfect, without ego, or in it to win friends and please everyone.

I rest my case.

On topic, there's not much that pound staff can do about any rescue without proven breaches of law. Even then, it would go to the general managers and higher up to make decisions.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Powerlegs

[Tootsie Roll]

I didnt drink the cool aid, so I am not swayed by the rescues response. It was well written and sounds convincing,however I trust the people who have contacted me to tell me it is not all as reported.

However,as I have previously posted that part of the matter is up to those people to take it further.

My concern is for the dogs in question, and others that will have the same fate,as it is the mindset of the rescue to run their rescue in this way and consider it acceptable for dogs to be caged years on end.

I accept that this is where some in rescue and myself may differ, as they consider that saving the dog's life. I, on the other hand,do not accept caged for years as giving a dog a "life".

[Steve]

There are many things that happen in the dog world I don't agree with.

The reality is that whether some agree or disagree the decision isn't their's to make.

For every one person who thinks its better to do something one way or the other there is one that shouts louder to say "no way" and has a good go at bullying the other to doing what they think should be done.

If someone owns a dog whether that's a rescue person or not they get to make decisions based on what THEY think is what is best for the dog as long as they remain within the codes and laws.

In NSW there is no requirement for a rescue to only keep a dog for a specific period of time and even if the dog is in an enclosure its whole life as long as the enclosure fits the codes and sizes that's not a breach of any laws or codes

They know the dogs they know the issues, they know what happens if they place it and it doesnt work out again., they have kennels approved by council and volunteers and staff so seems to me they are in a better position to decide what is best for the dog than any observer.

[BarbedWire]

I am finding it hard to reconcile what is being said in this thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/266937-sos-needs-help-with-long-term-dogs-in-kennels/page__st__30__gopid__6830087#entry6830087 with what is being said here.

[*kirty*]

Will say the same thing I said in the other thread. The more time these dogs spend in kennels, the less adoptable they become. The dogs become institutionalised and don't cope going into a home. If a dog cannot be rehomed due to aggression issues then it should be PTS.