shekhina Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I've come to seek some help with my puppy chasing my cats and I'm wondering if the LAT game that I've just read a bit about might be suitable for us? Consistent corrections/distractions have proved to be useless in this situation. Lincoln is nearly 4 months old and is a very, very busy puppy... far busier than either of my other puppies have been. He is a terrible cat chaser. I have two cats that are permanently indoors, so managing this is proving to be difficult, he just cannot help himself. My cats are very patient, but I do not want anyone getting hurt and one of my cats has a heart condition so his stress levels need to be kept at a minimum... and being hassled is not doing that! How would I best go about getting him to stop? I do not mind him interacting with the cats, but it needs to be in a calm, gentle manner... and not much about Lincoln is calm or gentle at the moment :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 LAT is an excellent method to train the dog's focus towards handler, but you still need a cue to stop or prevent him from chasing cats...or you have to play the LAT all the time when he wants to chase the cats. You can use sit, drop or stand to interrupt his chase, recall or you can teach him leave-it. I use the flirt pole (pipe, rope and lure) to play take-it / leave-it and it is a very effective way to control 'chasing'. Saying this: your dog is only 4 month old and training needs some time - at least regarding reliability. Hence starting with LAT will give a good foundation for all the other training. Some further comments to the flirt pole game: the game is physically challenging and dogs will jump, twist, stop and bounce very hard etc. when chasing the lure, hence it is not suitable for dogs that are not fit or known for hip, spine or joint problems. The bigger and heavier the dog is, the heftier the impacts will be ...and you can't play it in slow motion either. If you think it is too harsh for your dog, then just train the take-it/leave-it via 'tug of war'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) Until someone with better advice comes along my suggestion would be to keep him temporarily on lead in the house to stop him self reinforcing by chasing the cats. All calm behaviour or watching but not chasing should be rewarded. Do you know his favourite food? I would have tiny pieces of it ready to use and maybe consider only giving it to him for this purpose. The aim is to replace behaviour you don't want with behaviour you do, but you'll need to make it just as reinforcing for the dog, at least to begin with. Don't forget to regularly reinforce behaviour you want to see continue in the future as well eg random treats dropping between feet when he's lying down and the cats are present etc. Good luck! Edited to say sorry posted at the same as Willem. Edited June 19, 2016 by Roova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 Lincoln is a Rottweiler so I think I will probably avoid the flirt pole game mentioned for now. Teaching him 'leave it', how should I do that? He is very food driven and loves luncheon... this is what I have been using for his other training (sit, drop, stay etc.). He is very keen to work for it and a super quick learner... but the chasing the cats is just so exciting to him. I will keep him on lead inside while we're sorting this issue out, or lock up the cats if I want to give him free time inside. I have been using 'yes' as a marker for correct behaviour and he's caught on very quickly that yes means luncheon is coming :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canisbellum Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 You could also look at the Behaviour Interrupter training on k9pro's website. Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Kikopup on YouTube has a few variations of teaching leave it. Here's a link to a few to get you going :) "Leave it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 If he is a cheerful, resilient pup with no trace of anxiety or conflict about the cats, I would honestly punish it. Why? Because he has to share a space with the cats, and there are zillions of behaviours he is welcome to do in the house and just this one that he's not to do. It may be much quicker and make a lot more sense to him to learn "chasing cats is not that fun" than "there are a zillion things I am rewarded for doing around cats". To make the latter work, you can focus first on decision points, like, he looks at the cat but doesn't go over. Things like LAT are great for that. You may ultimately have to work on duration behaviours, though. Like, lie quietly on your bed. This can be pretty hard for a puppy if they are not ready to chill and have energy to run off. Having said all that, I am currently helping a client with a kitten and a dog. The dog is unfamiliar with cats and the kitten is liable to suddenly jump on the dog's head, hence, the dog is very antsy around the kitten and tends to want to bark and lunge. So, absolutely no negative consequences at all. Instead, the dog is learning what kittens do and how much of it is non-threatening (i.e. all of it). There is only a small amount of food involved. The dog will work for prolonged periods just to get a look at the cat, so we're shaping behaviour with that as a reward and simultaneously desensitising in very short bursts. Management is important. It helps a lot to be able to control both cats and dog so that they can't learn and practice unwanted behaviour. Teaching the cats station behaviours is not a bad idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 He is a very confident puppy, and very exhuberant. So far punishments haven't worked, so should I continue or not? If I should how should I go about it? Because growling and putting him in time out hasn't changed anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I have very, very busy puppies in my house! This is what I do.... Cats: - have baby gates into a dog free zone and they know they can escape - huge cat tree in the living area that the cats can get out of the way - I repeat to them regularly "this too shall pass"...this is Lilly's 5th puppy including ones I've trained for friends. Puppy: - make sure she is tired, physically and mentally. - teach a settle on her mat - entire meals are fed, biscuit by biscuit. - LAT is great too - especially when on the mat - use the cats as distraction training with pup on leash working for tug games and awesome treats - work on tiny recall games. Be more fun than the cat. - teach a really confident collar grab so pup races into your outstretched hand - translates really well to recalls in the real world too. And patience. They do grow up I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I promise :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Awww that's a lovely photo, there's hope yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Awww that's a lovely photo, there's hope yet! And seriously, Ginny is rather bonkers :laugh: So there's hope for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 I have very, very busy puppies in my house! This is what I do.... Cats: - have baby gates into a dog free zone and they know they can escape - huge cat tree in the living area that the cats can get out of the way - I repeat to them regularly "this too shall pass"...this is Lilly's 5th puppy including ones I've trained for friends. Puppy: - make sure she is tired, physically and mentally. - teach a settle on her mat - entire meals are fed, biscuit by biscuit. - LAT is great too - especially when on the mat - use the cats as distraction training with pup on leash working for tug games and awesome treats - work on tiny recall games. Be more fun than the cat. - teach a really confident collar grab so pup races into your outstretched hand - translates really well to recalls in the real world too. And patience. They do grow up I promise. Thank you! And that is such a lovely photo... I can only hope ours looks similar one day... although I might be a bit squashed! I already have a baby gate up across the laundry that the cats can go through (kitty door, or jump over) but that Lincoln can't get past. They also have a big kitty scratch tree in the loungeroom that Cheech especially jumps up to, to get away from him. Unfortunately for Gomez, Gomez is probably the most patient cat in the world and wont even try to get away from him and then Lincoln just pounces on top of him. This is the cat with the heart issue so this really, really cannot continue! I absolutely cannot have a 50kg dog throwing himself on my cat Gomez being Gomez would just sit there! I really, really hope this is a puppy thing that will come to an end, because at the moment it feels so impossible to get this to change. For now while I am doing his little bits of training inside I lock Gomez into a crate otherwise he will come and interrupt the lesson trying to get Lincoln's treats. Gomez is as good at sitting for a treat as Lincoln is :laugh: What do you mean by collar grab? Lincoln does a pretty good recall, but not if he's decided the cat is what he's going after, then he 'can't hear' me. He's extremely keen to learn and I think could end up doing quite well in obedience which I would really like to do with him... but my god, the cats!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 You could also look at the Behaviour Interrupter training on k9pro's website. Thanks, I'll see if I can find it :) Kikopup on YouTube has a few variations of teaching leave it. Here's a link to a few to get you going :) "Leave it" Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) Can I just add that I really dislike "leave it" commands...because the dog has already got the idea in their heads and then "leave it" becomes a cue. It's counterintuitive but it's true. Collar grab: touch collar, give treat, touch collar, give treat...etc repeat ad infinitum until your dog thinks that being grabbed by the collar is AWESOME! So you don't use it to punish but as a cue to recall and as an emergency GRAB if pup is being a pain. I can put my hand out and my youngster throws herself into it. Recalls under distraction when pup can't hear you = normal. As I said put pup on leash and practice easy recalls with cats around and amazing treats. ETA: I have one gate on the laundry and another on the living room to hallway - much more freedom for kitties. And saves pup shredding/toileting etc. Living area and kitchen are puppy safe zones. No shoes, socks, etc Edited June 20, 2016 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 OK, so I need a collar then :D So training on leash with cats around, feeds on his bed, LAT with the cats and some time and patience and this will all be better, yes? I hope so :) And in the mean time separate when he's not on a leash inside, so he can go in his crate so he cannot chase them? The idea is not to teach him to 'leave it' but to not want to do it in the first place, is that right? Sorry, I am just confused as this is very different to how I taught my other dogs, but quite happy to switch things up for something better for us all :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 OK, so I need a collar then :D So training on leash with cats around, feeds on his bed, LAT with the cats and some time and patience and this will all be better, yes? I hope so :) And in the mean time separate when he's not on a leash inside, so he can go in his crate so he cannot chase them? The idea is not to teach him to 'leave it' but to not want to do it in the first place, is that right? Sorry, I am just confused as this is very different to how I taught my other dogs, but quite happy to switch things up for something better for us all :) You've got it. You want to build value for what you want him to do - recall, lie on bed, play with you and manage so he doesn't get to rehearse bad behaviours. Yes it does take a bit of time! Also - if you don't like putting him in the crate set up a pen attached to the crate. Gives him room to move and you can pop him in there with food toys and whole raw carrots to keep him busy, cardboard boxes to destroy etc. I think it's important to acknowledge that chasing stuff is not naughty but normal behaviour. Not desirable but normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 There is absolutely no way a pen would hold this puppy, he's destroyed my garden because the fence did not withstand him :laugh: He has lots of toys in the lounge room that we give him free access to, but from now on will keep the cats well out of reach while he is having free time so that there's no opportunity for chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 There is absolutely no way a pen would hold this puppy, he's destroyed my garden because the fence did not withstand him :laugh: He has lots of toys in the lounge room that we give him free access to, but from now on will keep the cats well out of reach while he is having free time so that there's no opportunity for chasing. Sounds like a right terror :laugh: The beauty about having a high drive youngster is that you can channel it for good not evil! Lots of brain work for this puppy - kikopup is really good for this stuff too. I do a LOT of shaping, tricks, bodywork stuff as fitness training but gee it tires them out mentally. What breed shek? And pics??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Terror is one of the many, er, affectionate (?) names my OH has called him since he arrived :laugh: He is full of drive, that's for sure. He has a lot of potential, I just need to figure out how to get the best out of him. I'm really looking forward to getting into obedience with him. Here is the little upstart :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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