Dog Off Leash Vs Dogs On Leash

[kelp]

A little rant...

I was taking my two medium-small dogs for leisurely walk around an oval this morning. One of my dogs has been injured so I have been carrying him on our daily walk while the other dog sniffs up the duck poo, on leash. He is relatively young still - we are still working on his recall plus I didnt want the uncessary hassle of him getting the zoomies on my own.

(injured dog has back leg injury, so he is all bound up, on three legs. Our Vet advised injured dog take things easy for a while. I didnt want to leave injured dog at home as he enjoys being out an about, so I was happy to carry him around).

The oval is open, with only a low log fence plus trees around the outside. It allows dogs to be off leash if they are under control and if it is not being used for sport. Normally I can see other people and dogs quite a way off, as this give me time to get my dogs under controll and to suss out dodgy dogs /owners from a distance. We'd already had some nice calm sniffs with some dogs whom we had already met on previous walks. Some other dogs and owners had also been happy to keep on walking when asked. It was at a typically quiet time for people and dogs.

A very large german short haired pointer came bounding up suddenly behind me , out of nowhere. He was growlling its head off. My arms were full of injured dog and I didnt have time to put the other dog into a sit stay position (he is happy around most dogs). My injjured dog who is also normally happy to meet other dogs was equally surprised as me and started barking. As he was injured, i wasnt going to put him down on the ground.especially since the GSP was growlling and so big. I was defintely caught on the hop.

I asked the owner -who was speedily cycling along the path on the outside of the oval behind the low woodenlog fence - to recall her dog, but she refused, kept cycling and yelled that i was being unreasonable as her dog was "safe". I asked her again to recall her dog or I would ring the police. (I didnt because i didnt actaully have my phone). She again called ME a total f***ing idiot beacuse I should accept her opinion of her perfect dog who was "just doing what dogs do.," told to "get a grip" etc. I had never ever seen this dog before. The dog only took off when she got to the road atthe end of the oval, when she put one of those extender leashes on.

From my point of view it seemed clearly obvious that I was struggling to keep my dogs from being hassled. . I should not have to justify why I didnt want my dogs to meet hers. Her dog should have been her responsibility, not mine.

It has got me thinking that she was never going to come around to my point of view. Ringing up the dog warden/authorties to complain is just going to be a nail in the coffin for clamping down spaces for ALL dogs, not just the badly trained dogs.

Should there be more public messaging on what is acceptable dog and dog owner behaviour? it is not just about picking up the poo, right?

[Canisbellum]

Dog out of Control running up to me and growling is a dangerous dog and will get kicked beaten etc. That may help the owner get with the program

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[juice]

You took your dog to an offlead place, and to be honest you weren't in control of your dog either if your hands were full with an injured dog.

why not leave the injured dog at home?

Yes people do seem to think its ok to let their dogs run up to others, its common practice, so if you go to these places you have to suck it up, or walk around the roads.

I walk my dogs over fields near my house, its not offlead, but there are lots of offlead dogs there, if a dog hassles mine they get a warning shout from me to owner and then get a boot.

[kelp]

juice - isnt that victem blaming? my dogs were on leashes. hers was not.

irrespective of the oval being in an off leash area, isnt the issue control? her dog was in no way in control.

on the "dog under control" spectrum mine were way more under control than hers. plus the cyclist owner was no way close enough to deal with her dog in any case. i guess i was pissed off she didnt get that her dog was causing me problems.

why is it ok for dogs to hassle other dogs and owners ? is it ok for off leash dogs to hassle peoplewithbabies in prams , and with toddlers - these people with young children are encumbered, just as I was.

mine would have sat down if i had had enough time to react. i've not had problems with carrying my dog before. most people get there must be a reason.

as to kicking . it was growlling already. plus i just didnt think. doesnt kicking just escalate things?

[juice]

I'm not saying its ok, its a reality.

People do think its ok, and you are on a losing battle if you think everyone is responsible.

Therfore be prepared for it to happen of walk elswhere.

Generally standing in front of the annoying dog and blocking it is enough, but i have kicked two dogs who were trying to have a go at mine, and would do it again if i had to.

Mine can defend themselves, but don't want them too.

[Two Best Dogs!]

I had to ask a trainer at obedience to do something about a dog that was following along growling and mock lunging at us this Sunday just gone. It was offlead and my dog onlead as we walked around multiuse park practicing heeling. She kept heeling but the dog was getting closer. It was growling barking and fake lunging.

It is a multiuse area I was in, not a dog park, but controlled dogs allowed off lead. My trainer managed to chase the dog off but it took a lot of clapping and yelling - it was a determined dog! and the stupid owner was all "dog will be dogs"! That is not an excuse to let his dog follow us and harassing mine! It is incredibly unfair and dangerous for an aggressive dog to make threatening gestures at a constrained dog. If it had gotten closer I would have given it a solid kick in the side. Because you know it will be my dog that gets in trouble if she responds. I will not kick gently either.

the cyclist is irresponsible and in the wrong like my stupid irresponsible person. You were right to call them out on it. Just because it's the reality that some ppl disobey rules doesn't mean you should "suck it up".

If cyclist doesn't want people being unhappy with their dog they should control it. Especially when they have been asked to recall it and it's acting aggressively. Don't let that cyclist bully you

Edit that was meant to be a cranky face for you > : (

Edit 2. And I'm a fan of reporting these types of things. Shitty owners won't learn without rules being enforced. They're the selfish kind to do what they want and damned be others. Places like ovals, multiuse parks, the streets - everyone deserves to enjoy it and not have it monopolised by someone with a rude or aggressive dog. I don't mind the odd mistake or misjudgement (frustrating as it can be to be on receiving end) but when the owners are wilfully irresponsible and continue after bad behaviour is pointed out - they deserve the consequences of a fine or warning or people pointed out to them etc.

Edit 3. I have run into offlead dogs in multiuse parks in the city! The mind boggles, no fence, road, strict on lead area. I have hopes to one day take my dog to parks in the city but I am incredibly disheartened by all the lazy and irresponsible people who think they have right to flout rules and make other places unwelcome. If I want to take risks with meeting offleash dogs I go to off leash dog parks or beaches where there is space, both dogs offleash etc.

(still cranky for you, in agreement, hours later!)

Edited June 8, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[Willem]

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/764489/29061_Territory_Services_Dog_Etiquette_Rev.pdf ...quote from the link:

If your dog is not well socialised with other dogs you will need to teach your dog how to behave appropriately at the park. Dogs that have not been well socialised will need to be carefully supervised to avoid aggression and other inappropriate behaviour.

...interestingly the Dog Park Etiquette doesn't require that the owners have to be well socialised, only the dogs - maybe that's the real problem :) .

As others said it is a 'war' no side will win, and the losers will be the dogs. These dog parks are a mixed bag - on the one side the usage requires total control, perfect recall and perfect behaviour - but if a dog has such an obedience level, do these dogs need a dog park anyway???...wouldn't they be ok walking off-leash in other areas?...so why would there be a need of dog parks for perfect dogs?...shouldn't dog parks provide an opportunity for giving not so perfect dogs (I'm not talking about aggressive dogs here) a chance to run?

I have no answers to my questions, but for me it looks like the problem is on the other end of the leash, whether a dog is attached to the leash or not.

[karen15]

I had exactly the same thing happen to me last week! Only difference was we were in an on leash area. I saw a loose dog on the footpath and significantly behind it dawdled its owner. It saw my dogs and began to make a beeline. I called out 'excuse me can you please get your dog'. No response. Dog is nearly on us, so I called a second time, more brusquely. Dog ended up all over mine and when the owner arrived she basically said my dog is fine. At which point I gave her a mouthful and told her the law is dogs on the footpath have to be on lead and if she wants her bloody dog off lead then the appropriate place is that off lead dog park right there! Yes, we were out the front of a dog park that she just chose not to use. She got her dog and walked off saying it wasn't hurting anyone. I turned around and said it was hurting my dogs. Must have been a wee bit aggressive as another person with their dog offlead, again walking away from park grrrrrrrrr, had turned to watch.

Good news is I haven't seen the idiot since.

[rubiton]

First I would leave the injurede dog at home - if they like being out and about they could be frustrated being carried instead of running? Anyway a few days at home while you take the active one out shoudl be OK - can you leave a food treat it will chew on perhaps?

Second - try to teach your younger dog to move behind you so you can deal with the oncoming dog. Then you can decide if they are aggressive, eager, puppy, friendly etc. You can also step in front of it and growl something at the oncoming dog (get back, sit, git outta it, whatever - if they are charging at your dog and they then look at you they should back off). All else fails if your dog is behind you then you will get a good kick into the front of the shoulder and dogs back off pretty quick when met with that. And might get the owner to do something if they arent making one step to try and control their dog. If a kick only makes them step back I follow up with yelling/growling and stomping that foot down to get ready for next kick if it comes again (yes I had to do this with an off lead aggressive dog that went for mine and missed by a millimetre or at least I couldnt find anything when I checked). Friendly dogs I just watch closely to make sure no one pushes it too hard and usually the owners of these dogs ARE in pursuit and grab them.

[rubiton]

I have however reported idiot owners to the council - once is an accident but a second time I report - there were (and they still do but they grab them quicker now) people who let their little dogs run around in a park with their leads dragging. One in particular was very aggressive and charged us while the younger dog was still very excitable and we had the old dog so I was very defensive of her - both of mine on lead. I just hated the idea that the little aggressive thing would get past me and have mine especialy the younger one that was way bigger defend himself. Council assured me that if mine are on a lead and attacked by offlead my dog would not automatically be at fault. They also did eventually find these people and had a long chat about having their dogs running around like that (since we do have guide dogs in the area too so while I could see them coming a person with a guide dog wont have a chance) but the owners didnt seem to care regardless of what scenario and was quite aggressive themselves towards to the council person. But I guess they do grab them but they shouldnt be risking it in the first place but not much you can do

[skip]

I can only sympathise with the OP!

I have two small dogs and people often let their rude dogs run amuck. I noticed more people tended to attempt to recall their dogs when I got my third bigger dog. Worrying that people never worried about their dog cause they know my two chi x could not harm their dog.

My kelpie is fear reactive which I try to manage but the kelpie knows off lead dogs can be too much for her. I never go to off leash dog parks either.

So I live backing onto a very large park area and cycling tracks. For instance about 8 footy fields at least, plus the lake area. Still cannot avoid dickheads with dangerous off leash dogs. It is all on lead and well used.

I will join your rant!! Today I was furious as I walked behind two girls with a staffy x. The dog was too interested in mine and while on lead was hard for the girl to control. So I lagged behind as we were walking on a 15min loop. Just being considerate as didn't want her whole walk to be a hassle. But then she got a bit ahead so let her DOG off!! It was obvious I was following. So I had to hide as the path comes back on itself. The dog was on lead later in the distance but off again on the oval. I know she was guessing her dog would recall, but if it didn't, and this dog was running over a large area, mine would react and God knows how that would go.

If I could get to her safely I would explain how much her actions are irrespondsible. I was fed up. Didn't help that yesterday met guy with loose dog approaching head on, he couldn't recall his staffy so I waited. He gave up and went round a baseball pitch away from me. He hardly stopped his phone call. That dog was covering half that field in seconds so I was very nervous.

I have been abused twice over the years by dog owners with un recallable dogs.

I do walk lots of places but where ever I go eventually you run into trouble.

You can only be aware and avoid places you know can be dodgey.

So if it any consolation, I agree some dog owners are idiots, but not all thank god!

Hope your dog wasn't too squished in your arms.

Edited June 8, 2016 by skip

[Rayhay]

You can't fix stupid.

I have two Rotts, one of which is very dog reactive, irregardless of being well socialised all her life she is just a highly driven bitch who is what she is.

So many people walk their dog (big and small) off leash that want to come bounding up to us, yelling "it's friendly"

I don't offing care, friendly or not, can't you see my dog is not happy about your dog all up in our grill???? Being a Rott, she could actually get leash defensive and react in a not so friendly manner and I am the bad guy!

As I said though, you can't fix stupid.

[Rascalmyshadow]

We also had a similar incident on Sunday. We rarely have problems with off leash dogs so I was quite surprised.

Myself, husband and three kids (one is a 5 month old in a pram) were walking four of our dogs on the footpath along side of the off leash park, stupid owner with a boxer wasn't paying attention, her dog bowled up to us and went for my youngest dog who is all of 2.5kg and had patella surgery in Jan, I had to let go of the pram and hold my girl with one hand and pin the boxer to the ground by the scruff, it ended up getting loose and circling around to get to another one of our dogs, my husband tried to sink his boot into it but it was too quick.

Owner finally reached us and grabbed the dog, she did apologise and I managed to keep my temper. Luckily none of our dogs were harmed or the pram wasn't knocked over, wasn't impressed having to manage a dog of that strength after having a Caesar 5 months ago.

[kelp]

thanks all for your thoughts. didnt mean to transfer my crossness to others! i was thinking of ringing up the dog ranger to report, but i got back later than expected from an errand. i dont think there is anything they can do. they have their hands pretty full I imagine.

I never cease to be amazed when this sort of stuff happens. yy - accidents and sillyness of dogs and owners is one thing (and when the owners at least try to sort their dog out) but being rude and blame-shifting and rude is another.

skip, that girl with the staffy would she have listened ? i am thinking not - nobody wants to admit their dog is in the wrong in the heat of the moment.

It is sort of like explaining right of way arrangements in cars just after a near-miss. everyone is hot under the collar so not wiling to concede they are at fault.

would a public message campaign be useful for dog owners, on tv, or on signs at pet shops or whatever places dog owners tend to go to, (and when they might be a more receptive mindset ) to show people what acceptible dog behaviour looks like. would these campaigns work, or would they be futile?

[kelp]

rascal yikes!!

That boxer owner should have been more on the ball. I mean how coulld he have not seen you, your pram plus FOUR dogs?

that was a serious near miss. when this stuff happens it is all so quick. my hat is off to you for keeping your temper. While Loosing it can feel good at the time, on the other hand, it means the baby, children, toddlers not to mention the dogs get upset - more upset than the person being yelled at, unfortunately.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

SA dog management law is - dogs have to be under effective control and that dogs may not harass other dogs or people or wildlife or stock etc.

But most owners have no idea.

I just yell "BAD IDEA" back at them. Gives them the clue that their dog might not be safe if it gets too close to mine... and they will look stupid if they ignore "bad idea". Works often but not always. Works a lot better than "Call your dog".

I've also yelled "my dog injured" or "my dog rehab" or "my dog KENNEL COUGH".

I got mad at someone who was letting her dog greet all the other dogs at our park while it was hacking away. She said "vet said it was just the doggy flu" - I said "like kennel cough" - and she said yes. Stupid stupid - never saw her again. Would she have taken her kids out with the flu to play with all the other kids - probably.

There's always stupid owners. Sometimes I just let my dog go and grab their dog so it can't attack mine. Does confuse the hell out of my dog but she will drop-stay when I tell her to even if I'm holding a snarling Labrador.

My dog does like to scare the crap out of poodle crosses tho - and I keep her on lead if they're around at our park. She is pretty good at the beach tho - unless one charges up and jumps on her head and then why should any dog put up with that?

Our dog rules say our dog is allowed to defend itself or us.

[maddogdodge]

Until very recently where I live it has been totally legal for anyone to walk an off leash dog absolutely anywhere they wanted. They've only just changed the rules introducing dedicated off leash areas and rules that dogs must be on leash otherwise.

The people where I live are ignorant and don't care enough to think about others though. I stay very far away from the dedicated off leash areas with my reactive boy and I still meet countless off leash and completely uncontrolled dogs. Dogs who have chased me and my dog across roads and really got right in my boy's face. I ask the owners to control their dog but am usually told "don't worry, he's friendly" :

I had a lady who let her dog run at least 100m away from her while it chased me and my dog across a road (all the while my dog is completely freaking out because this dog is trying to climb all over him). Eventually the lady came and got her dog, dragged it away and let it go loose again 100 meters from me. 30 mins later down the walking track I see her and her dog off leash in the distance again... Dog spots us and instantly starts sprinting towards us, lady calls it, it totally ignores her... she ends up having to sprint to catch it before it got to us... Again, she dragged it away and didn't put it on lead!

If I'm walking alone with my reactive boy, I carry a stick to ward off any dogs that try to get in his face... If owners are stupid enough to ignore me asking them to control their dog, I will use the stick.

With some friendly dogs a handful of treats thrown at their face will work and give you enough time to get away.

[skip]

Now I was wondering if I should start carrying a stick. If we do get attacked and it has happened then it avoids me using my hands. And I thought might make others think twice.

However once I was physically threatened by a bloke after his dog run upto mine . the staffy was young and did back down to my old cranky chi x, but the guy was feral. He threatened and tried to "kick the shit out of" my little dogs. His dog was loose in an on lead area and I had pissed him off by asking if he could please put his dog on lead as mine were not friendly. Do I want a stick in that situation.

I considered reporting to council but that would probably mean rangers booking people whose dogs are completely safe . in such a large area people can normally get along. Its just the odd aggressive dog.

Shits me. To stick or not?

[Willem]

question for the OP: I guess I wrongly assumed that the incident happend in an area that was officially declared as an off-leash area by authorities? ...my reason for asking is: IMO it makes a big difference whether owners walking their dog(s) get hassled by other dogs in an on-leash area or whether it happens in an off-leash area / dog park.

In on-leash areas no dog should be an annoyance for other dogs and owners - hence the leash. In off-leash areas where dogs are allowed to run free there is always a chance that dogs coming from all directions trying to investigate, and different dog sizes, different characters, different interpretations of dogs' body languages by the owners, different obedience levels, different fitness levels (owners and dogs) and different expectations of the owners can lead to incidents, even if every dog is monitored closely by the owners.

[JulesP]

question for the OP: I guess I wrongly assumed that the incident happend in an area that was officially declared as an off-leash area by authorities? ...my reason for asking is: IMO it makes a big difference whether owners walking their dog(s) get hassled by other dogs in an on-leash area or whether it happens in an off-leash area / dog park.

In on-leash areas no dog should be an annoyance for other dogs and owners - hence the leash. In off-leash areas where dogs are allowed to run free there is always a chance that dogs coming from all directions trying to investigate, and different dog sizes, different characters, different interpretations of dogs' body languages by the owners, different obedience levels, different fitness levels (owners and dogs) and different expectations of the owners can lead to incidents, even if every dog is monitored closely by the owners.

In the first post the OP states that it was an sporting oval that is an allowed off-leash area. So it was off-leash but not a closed in dog park.