Puppy Registration - Mislead By Breeder

[Papillon Kisses]

And big congratulations on your 'little' Saint .. lots of fun ahead .. and hopefully photos for us to drool over .. and I did use the word drool deliberately

That is an excellent point, Tassie! Where are our photos?! The OP needs to get cracking!! :D

[Bigsley]

When these sorts of issues come up, may I suggest a frank discussion with the pup's breeder. You've got yourself a giant breed, they take a lot of care to raise well and the best source of advice for that will be the breeder. A good relationship between breeder and owner can be of such benefit to you as a new owner and most breeders are keen to assist. :)

My first response was to ask my breeder. I did so by email and she was able to respond soon after. When I first asked the breeder for clarification of this issue before I bought a puppy, it was over the phone, and between us I obviously didn't get the right idea. In the email, I said I was confused and then stated four facts. I don't consider this to be confrontational or accusatory, however one commenter here suggests this warrants the breeder cutting me off from further assistance. Yes, the relationship between a breeder and owner can be very valuable. Rather than respond back to the breeder and potentially create an uncomfortable situation, I chose to consult the Worldly Wise Web. I didn't call up a competitor breeder for a whinge session, and I wasn't making a demand on anyone's time. I used the word "mislead" because I was left with the impression that the puppy would be registered in my name. I accept that the breeder would not have intentionally done this, to trick me out of less than $40 when I was going to be paying thousands.

Prior to purchasing a puppy, it's recommended to speak to as many breeders as possible and ask lots of questions. Why should that stop after purchasing a puppy? Many of the responses I've received online today are more informative than the breeder's response and I've also been able to learn some additional things. Giant breeds do take a lot of care to raise properly. Before committing to getting a puppy I did a lot of research from many different resources in addition to speaking to the breeders and visiting. I found differing opinions on two of the questions that I asked breeders, and the opinion I developed on those aspects is differing to my breeder's idea on the subject. That doesn't mean I discount her opinion or wouldn't seek her advice where necessary. But for me, it does show the value in speaking with people from different backgrounds, whether they be Saint breeders or owners, or giant dog breeders or owners.

I understood that the breeder was having the puppy microchipped, but not registered on the NSW companion animal register, and I understand what is involved with that registration. I wasn't able to take microchip paperwork home when I picked up my puppy because the breeder didn't know which microchip number was his and her scanner wasn't working. I signed the form with it blank and took my puppy to my vet the next day to get scanned and emailed the chip number to the breeder. His microchip and paperwork is all in order and I will be registering him on the companion animal register following further consultation with my vet and the council.

It's not just the term "registration" that is causing me confusion, but at the time he was registered, I was the puppy's owner. If the form had arrived showing this other person as "Breeder" or "person initially registering the dog", I would have less issue with the situation. For her to be recorded as the owner was simply incorrect. Yes, she was to begin with, but not at the time of registration. But I guess that's just how Dogs NSW operates the register. The breeder had determined that my puppy was going to be sold and on limited register weeks before I picked him up. So I didn't understand the six week period between when I picked him up and the "date registered".

I sought feedback on this issue on two forums. One of them was more helpful and less judgemental than the other.

[Rebanne]

Just because it had been decided your pup was going on the limited register does not mean all pups had had their register decided on and all pups must be registered at the same time. Also pups have to be microchipped before being registered and most people do that after 6 weeks of age.

If you choose to raise the pup different to your breeders recommendations then please be aware you moght void any guarantee's given. For instance if any of my puppy buyers were to give the yearly heartworm injection, which I am very much against, then that's it, all bets are off. But I tell them that and it's written down as well.

[Salukifan]

It's not just the term "registration" that is causing me confusion, but at the time he was registered, I was the puppy's owner. If the form had arrived showing this other person as "Breeder" or "person initially registering the dog", I would have less issue with the situation. For her to be recorded as the owner was simply incorrect. Yes, she was to begin with, but not at the time of registration. But I guess that's just how Dogs NSW operates the register. The breeder had determined that my puppy was going to be sold and on limited register weeks before I picked him up. So I didn't understand the six week period between when I picked him up and the "date registered".

I sought feedback on this issue on two forums. One of them was more helpful and less judgemental than the other.

Yep. Then the dog is transferred into the new owner's name.

I just hope you got accurate information from both forums!

[Aziah]

At a guess I would say the majority of pet puppies sold in NSW remain registered with Dogs NSW in the breeders name as most owners don't bother changing that once they have the microchip ownership changed. No big deal at all...

[Bilbo Baggins]

When these sorts of issues come up, may I suggest a frank discussion with the pup's breeder. You've got yourself a giant breed, they take a lot of care to raise well and the best source of advice for that will be the breeder. A good relationship between breeder and owner can be of such benefit to you as a new owner and most breeders are keen to assist. :)

My first response was to ask my breeder. I did so by email and she was able to respond soon after. When I first asked the breeder for clarification of this issue before I bought a puppy, it was over the phone, and between us I obviously didn't get the right idea. In the email, I said I was confused and then stated four facts. I don't consider this to be confrontational or accusatory, however one commenter here suggests this warrants the breeder cutting me off from further assistance. Yes, the relationship between a breeder and owner can be very valuable. Rather than respond back to the breeder and potentially create an uncomfortable situation, I chose to consult the Worldly Wise Web. I didn't call up a competitor breeder for a whinge session, and I wasn't making a demand on anyone's time. I used the word "mislead" because I was left with the impression that the puppy would be registered in my name. I accept that the breeder would not have intentionally done this, to trick me out of less than $40 when I was going to be paying thousands.

Prior to purchasing a puppy, it's recommended to speak to as many breeders as possible and ask lots of questions. Why should that stop after purchasing a puppy? Many of the responses I've received online today are more informative than the breeder's response and I've also been able to learn some additional things. Giant breeds do take a lot of care to raise properly. Before committing to getting a puppy I did a lot of research from many different resources in addition to speaking to the breeders and visiting. I found differing opinions on two of the questions that I asked breeders, and the opinion I developed on those aspects is differing to my breeder's idea on the subject. That doesn't mean I discount her opinion or wouldn't seek her advice where necessary. But for me, it does show the value in speaking with people from different backgrounds, whether they be Saint breeders or owners, or giant dog breeders or owners.

I understood that the breeder was having the puppy microchipped, but not registered on the NSW companion animal register, and I understand what is involved with that registration. I wasn't able to take microchip paperwork home when I picked up my puppy because the breeder didn't know which microchip number was his and her scanner wasn't working. I signed the form with it blank and took my puppy to my vet the next day to get scanned and emailed the chip number to the breeder. His microchip and paperwork is all in order and I will be registering him on the companion animal register following further consultation with my vet and the council.

It's not just the term "registration" that is causing me confusion, but at the time he was registered, I was the puppy's owner. If the form had arrived showing this other person as "Breeder" or "person initially registering the dog", I would have less issue with the situation. For her to be recorded as the owner was simply incorrect. Yes, she was to begin with, but not at the time of registration. But I guess that's just how Dogs NSW operates the register. The breeder had determined that my puppy was going to be sold and on limited register weeks before I picked him up. So I didn't understand the six week period between when I picked him up and the "date registered".

I sought feedback on this issue on two forums. One of them was more helpful and less judgemental than the other.

Bigsley if you ever plan on traveling with your dog I suggest that you register it on one of the National Registers ie CAR or AAR. The NSW companion register does not "talk" to the 6 other registries. Recently a NSW dog ended up in a pound in Melbourne and was lucky to be returned to its NSW owner.

[Aziah]

In addition, many breeders don't register their litters until 8 weeks of age and it can then be 10 working days or more for Dogs NSW to process that registration so your comment regarding the long period between your pup being determined and actual registration is very simply explained.

I guess you have to expect that people will defend a breeder who has done nothing at all wrong when your posts come across as rather displeased with a situation that is perfectly normal.

[Aziah]

...and can you change the heading of your thread as there's nothing misleading about anything just simple misunderstanding which I still don't believe is clear to you.

Poor breeder, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to have such unwarranted negative information posted on a public forum.

[LisaCC]

When these sorts of issues come up, may I suggest a frank discussion with the pup's breeder. You've got yourself a giant breed, they take a lot of care to raise well and the best source of advice for that will be the breeder. A good relationship between breeder and owner can be of such benefit to you as a new owner and most breeders are keen to assist. :)

My first response was to ask my breeder. I did so by email and she was able to respond soon after. When I first asked the breeder for clarification of this issue before I bought a puppy, it was over the phone, and between us I obviously didn't get the right idea. In the email, I said I was confused and then stated four facts. I don't consider this to be confrontational or accusatory, however one commenter here suggests this warrants the breeder cutting me off from further assistance. Yes, the relationship between a breeder and owner can be very valuable. Rather than respond back to the breeder and potentially create an uncomfortable situation, I chose to consult the Worldly Wise Web. I didn't call up a competitor breeder for a whinge session, and I wasn't making a demand on anyone's time. I used the word "mislead" because I was left with the impression that the puppy would be registered in my name. I accept that the breeder would not have intentionally done this, to trick me out of less than $40 when I was going to be paying thousands.

Prior to purchasing a puppy, it's recommended to speak to as many breeders as possible and ask lots of questions. Why should that stop after purchasing a puppy? Many of the responses I've received online today are more informative than the breeder's response and I've also been able to learn some additional things. Giant breeds do take a lot of care to raise properly. Before committing to getting a puppy I did a lot of research from many different resources in addition to speaking to the breeders and visiting. I found differing opinions on two of the questions that I asked breeders, and the opinion I developed on those aspects is differing to my breeder's idea on the subject. That doesn't mean I discount her opinion or wouldn't seek her advice where necessary. But for me, it does show the value in speaking with people from different backgrounds, whether they be Saint breeders or owners, or giant dog breeders or owners.

I understood that the breeder was having the puppy microchipped, but not registered on the NSW companion animal register, and I understand what is involved with that registration. I wasn't able to take microchip paperwork home when I picked up my puppy because the breeder didn't know which microchip number was his and her scanner wasn't working. I signed the form with it blank and took my puppy to my vet the next day to get scanned and emailed the chip number to the breeder. His microchip and paperwork is all in order and I will be registering him on the companion animal register following further consultation with my vet and the council.

It's not just the term "registration" that is causing me confusion, but at the time he was registered, I was the puppy's owner. If the form had arrived showing this other person as "Breeder" or "person initially registering the dog", I would have less issue with the situation. For her to be recorded as the owner was simply incorrect. Yes, she was to begin with, but not at the time of registration. But I guess that's just how Dogs NSW operates the register. The breeder had determined that my puppy was going to be sold and on limited register weeks before I picked him up. So I didn't understand the six week period between when I picked him up and the "date registered".

I sought feedback on this issue on two forums. One of them was more helpful and less judgemental than the other.

Bigsley if you ever plan on traveling with your dog I suggest that you register it on one of the National Registers ie CAR or AAR. The NSW companion register does not "talk" to the 6 other registries. Recently a NSW dog ended up in a pound in Melbourne and was lucky to be returned to its NSW owner.

Don't want to distract from topic too much, but can NSW owners do this themselves? With NSW chip numbers?

[*kirty*]

All of my pedigree puppies are in the breeder's names. When I get off my bum and start showing, then I will transfer them. :)

[Papillon Kisses]

Don't want to distract from topic too much, but can NSW owners do this themselves? With NSW chip numbers?

I've just been looking into that. Yes we can. This is the form: https://www.car.com.au/sites/default/files/Subs%20form%20with%20payment%20option%20Nov%202015.pdf'>https://www.car.com.au/sites/default/files/Subs%20form%20with%20payment%20option%20Nov%202015.pdf

Does require a vet to confirm the microchip number.

And there's info on the CAR site. https://www.car.com.au

[juice]

The fact that the heading said misleading, and you named the breed, not common means the breeder may well see this and its not a good start if you want a good relationship with them.

Going elswhere for advice on how to raise a saint may not be in your pups best interests.

[dragonwoman]

...and can you change the heading of your thread as there's nothing misleading about anything just simple misunderstanding which I still don't believe is clear to you.

Poor breeder, I'm sure they'd be thrilled to have such unwarranted negative information posted on a public forum.

Especially a minority breed easily identified........it has occurred to me since my first post that maybe if the OP asked many thoughtful questions in their search, a breeder might be excused f or assuming they also knew about different re4gisteries?

[RiverStar-Aura]

Don't want to distract from topic too much, but can NSW owners do this themselves? With NSW chip numbers?

I've just been looking into that. Yes we can. This is the form: https://www.car.com.au/sites/default/files/Subs%20form%20with%20payment%20option%20Nov%202015.pdf'>https://www.car.com.au/sites/default/files/Subs%20form%20with%20payment%20option%20Nov%202015.pdf

Does require a vet to confirm the microchip number.

And there's info on the CAR site. https://www.car.com.au

It's very easy to register with CAR in NSW. All 3 of my dogs are on both the NSW Companion Animal Registry and the Central Animal Records.

You just fill out the form, have a vet verify the microchip number and send it away with payment.

I travel all over for agility and confirmation showing and using a national register is peace of mind.

[Papillon Kisses]

Don't want to distract from topic too much, but can NSW owners do this themselves? With NSW chip numbers?

I've just been looking into that. Yes we can. This is the form: https://www.car.com.au/sites/default/files/Subs%20form%20with%20payment%20option%20Nov%202015.pdf'>https://www.car.com.au/sites/default/files/Subs%20form%20with%20payment%20option%20Nov%202015.pdf

Does require a vet to confirm the microchip number.

And there's info on the CAR site. https://www.car.com.au

It's very easy to register with CAR in NSW. All 3 of my dogs are on both the NSW Companion Animal Registry and the Central Animal Records.

You just fill out the form, have a vet verify the microchip number and send it away with payment.

I travel all over for agility and confirmation showing and using a national register is peace of mind.

I'm going to do it after hearing the stories of dogs who go missing and wind up in different states. I was on Facebook recently and some idiot had found a dog while on holiday and was driving it home with them to keep. ???? My vet has also has had people bring dogs to them which they found on holiday instead of taking them to a local vet. They say it's not an infrequent thing! I don't live near a state border but still... some people are stupid.

[BlaznHotAussies]

Registered ownership of the dog is mostly used for dogs going to show or performance homes. Most pet owners don't want to become a member of their state's membership body (ANKC) so your breeder probably didn't think of it being a problem for you. As far as I know it's not possible to register a puppy with anyone but the breeder as the owner, plus it would require all puppy buyers to already be members and to become a member you must have a dog (hence becoming a member & transferring the puppy at the same time).

This is incorrect. You do not require membership of your state Canine Control to own an ANKC registered dog. You require membership to exhibit it, compete in dog sports or breed.

Sounds like miscommunication rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead. Most pedigree dog folk refer to "registered" as being ANKC registered (ie has a registered pedigree). ONLY the owner of a dog can life time register it with council. When you think about that for a moment, you'll see it makes perfect sense.

If you don't care about the pup's papers being in your name, life time register the pup on the Companion ANimal Register and don't worry about transferring the papers. But DO make you you transfer the microchip details to your home - very important if the pup goes walk about.

Ok so as I'd never seen that before I read through the rules & regulations of DogsWest - here it is:

106.5 Transfers may be accepted from non-members of the Association on payment of theprescribed fee.

Good to know

Edited June 4, 2016 by Scootaloo

[ellz]

I can't see where the breeder has misled you. All looks and sounds perfectly fine to me.

There is no set time frame for puppies to be registered, as long as they are registered within the first 18 months of their lives.

My current litter are 11 weeks old and I haven't even thought about registering them yet. It will cost me more to do so, but that's my problem.

[Steve]

Simple

In NSW a DogsNSW breeder is not able to register the pedigree in your name .The pup is registered as the breeder being the owner for the purposes of the pedigree registry and if you want to you can pay a fee and have it changed over to your name .

This isn't something the breeder is able to do - The breeder has 6 months to put the paperwork in to register the litter with DogsNSW .The breeder cant put one pup in at a time - the whole litter has to go in at once so sometimes the breeder will hold off until all puppies have been named, sold and a determination made as to whether they will be on main or limited. Either way they cant be registered with DogsNSW until they are chipped - so depends on when the whole litter has had its chips inserted.

As far as the council is concerned the dog has to be chipped in the name of the person who has it when the chip goes in - usually when the pup gets its first vaccination- because the person who is in attendance has to sign the paperwork and they wont accept names of people who are not there and able to sign. Then when the pup goes home the breeder has 14 days to change the ownership details with council.

So by the time you get to paying the registration fees for the dog with your council the dog's chip will already be in your name. if you dont pay the registration fee with council by the time the pup is 6 months old your council will tell you its time to pay the registration fee via mail

In NSW The breeder could not register you as owner with DogsNSW - It is not possible even if they wanted to. This is something you must do if you want the pedigree to have your name on it.

The breeder could not register the chip straight into your name - its not possible unless you can find a shonky implanter but the breeder must transfer the ownership of the dog to you with council within 14 days.

I carefully put all of this in writing because as breeders we do this stuff as a matter of course and we dont always know whats in the buyers mind when they are asking - as its what has happened here .Registration is not the same to all people so easy to get the message scrambled.

[Dame Aussie]

All perfectly normal, I believe in Qld and maybe WA puppies can be registered direct to new owners but in other states the breeder does it in their name...........this registration is only to put the puppy on the ANKC database of purebred dogs.....thousands of puppies would still be in their breeders names because pet owners never transferred them..............but that is only ownership of the dog for ANKC purposes, the dog is yours. In Victoria a pet can be transferred into a pet owners name without them having to join Dogs Victoria, each state is different

The date of registration is the date the paperwork was processed in the office, it may have been submitted by the breeder weeks before, due to microchip laws, the earliest puppies registrations would be submitted in Victoria is 6 weeks as they are usually chipped at vaccination, plus some breeders now wait a little longer to vaccinate

This breeder IMHO has done everything right, you should have maybe done some more homework on what "registration" meant and who with, I believe the breeder assumed you had!!

This, 100%.

Yep!