Training Tips For A 7 Month Old Boxer

[Willem]

I did all of my recall training with a 5 m leash (or without leash on the trainings oval or in off-leash areas) - 10 m is only useable if the dog is calm and if there are no other dogs, if it gets wild it will just tangle around the legs and it can cause severe injuries...a 10 m leash is very very long.

I also contemplated a while about an emergency recall, but then decided against it. Reasons: I would have applied the same methodology of positive reinforcement I use for the 'normal' recall, so why not focusing on the 'normal' recall aiming to get it perfect?...if I recall my dog she has to come, no matter whether it is an emergency or not - IMO an emergency recall would have devaluated a 'normal' recall....but then if I would expect that she doesn't come all the time when given the 'normal' recall cue, why training it at all?...just doesn't make sense to me.

Her recall now is very good for her age and training, I have no doubt that if she keeps performing and learning like the last 8 month it will become perfect over the next 3 month.

Wrt the article in the link: I'm not sure where the advantage of using a clicker for the recall training is - at the end you want to be able to recall your dog from far distances via whistle or hand signal and due to the distance there will be quite some time between giving the cue and arrival of the dog respectively when he gets the reward, hence I can't see an advantage of adding the clicker sound - for triggering the recall from a bigger distance it is not loud enough, and as a reward it is not required.

My recommendation: just keep on doing what you described in your post #15 about your training in the enclosed dog park. After a good run you should already be able to recall him with a good treat, keep working on this ...increase distance and frequency and you will be surprised how good is recall will be.

[sheena]

You would only use the clicker in the early stages of teaching recall. It is not used to attract the pups attention....it is used to mark the exact moment he turns his head in response to his recall cue & then he gets the reward when he gets back to you. The clicker is a marker, not an attention getter.

[Willem]

You would only use the clicker in the early stages of teaching recall. It is not used to attract the pups attention....it is used to mark the exact moment he turns his head in response to his recall cue & then he gets the reward when he gets back to you. The clicker is a marker, not an attention getter.

...but when you train recall you want the dog moving towards you - if you click when the dog turns the head he might just stand there (whether he is 2 or 50 meters away). For the recall it is hard to find the right timing for a click as moving towards you is a whole procedure, hence I can't see an advantage using a clicker for recall training.

[sheena]

Another game I like is the "Choose Me" game. For this you can either use a clicker if he understands the clicker or just say "yes". Fill your pocket with lots of very small but yummy treats & clicker if using it, but for this game I just use my voice. With him off lead start in a place with no distractions & where he can't run off & self reward. He will probably start to sniff & explore but say nothing...just wait till he looks at you...it may be just a glance at first. As soon as he looks at you, mark & treat...he will most likely take the treat & go off again...just wait, say nothing, he looks, you mark & treat. When you have this going 100%, move to another area with more distractions & of course you can wait for duration before you mark.

Hope these videos work :)

[sheena]

You would only use the clicker in the early stages of teaching recall. It is not used to attract the pups attention....it is used to mark the exact moment he turns his head in response to his recall cue & then he gets the reward when he gets back to you. The clicker is a marker, not an attention getter.

...but when you train recall you want the dog moving towards you - if you click when the dog turns the head he might just stand there (whether he is 2 or 50 meters away). For the recall it is hard to find the right timing for a click as moving towards you is a whole procedure, hence I can't see an advantage using a clicker for recall training.

You have to start off just a few feet away & I usually do it with two people both armed with treats & a clicker. If he doesn't return to you after he has turned his head, then he doesn't get the reward & it means you have increased the distance too soon....you have set him up to fail. You only use it in the early stages of recall, not when he is 50 meters away.

[Willem]

You would only use the clicker in the early stages of teaching recall. It is not used to attract the pups attention....it is used to mark the exact moment he turns his head in response to his recall cue & then he gets the reward when he gets back to you. The clicker is a marker, not an attention getter.

...but when you train recall you want the dog moving towards you - if you click when the dog turns the head he might just stand there (whether he is 2 or 50 meters away). For the recall it is hard to find the right timing for a click as moving towards you is a whole procedure, hence I can't see an advantage using a clicker for recall training.

You have to start off just a few feet away & I usually do it with two people both armed with treats & a clicker. If he doesn't return to you after he has turned his head, then he doesn't get the reward & it means you have increased the distance too soon....you have set him up to fail. You only use it in the early stages of recall, not when he is 50 meters away.

..but click means immediate reward...so if you click when he turns and starts moving to you, the task is not finished (whether it is 2 or 50 meters) - I can see the advantage of the clicker for LAT or LAM, but not for recall training as the timing becomes somehow inconsistent compared to LAT / LAM.

Eta: and if the distance becomes too little to allow for the correct timing respectively immediate reward / click he doesn't have to move at all...

Edited June 22, 2016 by Willem

[sheena]

But that is where you are wrong. Click does not mean immediate reward...it means a reward is coming, usually within about 3 to 5 seconds. Using the clicker you don't even have to reward in position. For example, if I am teaching my dog to crawl under a chair (could be handy for something one day :D) I will click for the dog just looking at the chair, but throw the treat anywhere...dog goes & gets the treat then you can see him thinking..."now what did I do to get that click".....it's called shaping....I build on that & for instance, he might stick his nose under the chair..I click & throw the treat anywhere..he comes out from under the chair to get his treat then has a think about it. etc etc. Completely different to luring where you have to treat in position & luring does not teach your dog to use his own brain. You reward EVERY time you click, but the reward might be sitting on top of the fridge.

If you really want to understand Clicker Training..read some of Karyn Prior articles

What if the animal does not obey the cue?

Clicker trained animals want to perform behaviors for which they have been rewarded in the past. If they understand the meaning of the cue and desire the reward, they will perform the behavior.

If they do not perform the behavior, clicker trainers do not assume that the animal is "disobeying." Instead the trainer asks the following questions:

Does the animal know the meaning of the cue?

Does the animal know the meaning of the cue in the environment in which it was first taught, but not in the environment in which it was given?

Is the reward for doing the behavior sufficiently desired by the animal?

After answering those questions, the clicker trainer revises the training process to be sure that the animal knows the meaning of the cue in all environments, regardless of distractions, and feels rewarded for the behavior.

[Willem]

But that is where you are wrong. Click does not mean immediate reward...it means a reward is coming, usually within about 3 to 5 seconds. Using the clicker you don't even have to reward in position. For example, if I am teaching my dog to crawl under a chair (could be handy for something one day :D) I will click for the dog just looking at the chair, but throw the treat anywhere...dog goes & gets the treat then you can see him thinking..."now what did I do to get that click".....it's called shaping....I build on that & for instance, he might stick his nose under the chair..I click & throw the treat anywhere..he comes out from under the chair to get his treat then has a think about it. etc etc. Completely different to luring where you have to treat in position & luring does not teach your dog to use his own brain. You reward EVERY time you click, but the reward might be sitting on top of the fridge.

If you really want to understand Clicker Training..read some of Karyn Prior articles

What if the animal does not obey the cue?

Clicker trained animals want to perform behaviors for which they have been rewarded in the past. If they understand the meaning of the cue and desire the reward, they will perform the behavior.

If they do not perform the behavior, clicker trainers do not assume that the animal is "disobeying." Instead the trainer asks the following questions:

Does the animal know the meaning of the cue?

Does the animal know the meaning of the cue in the environment in which it was first taught, but not in the environment in which it was given?

Is the reward for doing the behavior sufficiently desired by the animal?

After answering those questions, the clicker trainer revises the training process to be sure that the animal knows the meaning of the cue in all environments, regardless of distractions, and feels rewarded for the behavior.

ok, learned something again; I actually use 'YES' as a bridge, I guess that would be similar to the click?....e.g. in agility we training remote handling so she has to know what the seesaw, tunnel etc. means...sometimes she is not sure and a 'YES' confirms that she is on the right way...conversely a 'NO' will make her stop and looking in my direction asking for guidance (which would be my arms pointing to the right object)...if her look she gives me - in case of a 'NO' - could kill I wouldn't be here anymore :D ...

Edited June 22, 2016 by Willem

[The Spotted Devil]

Click for action, reward for position.

Sheena is absolutely right. And the click does not necessarily end the behaviour either.

[Willem]

Click for action, reward for position.

Sheena is absolutely right. And the click does not necessarily end the behaviour either.

Thanks - got it ...I used the clicker more or less only for the very basic LAT/LAM games where I clicked and rewarded the same time her focus was back on me. I'm still not sure whether it was due to this kind of clicker training or just the time I spent with her that developed such a strong bond - the original problems we had to get her focus when other dogs were around just disappeared and today I can click with my fingers or make a clicking noise with my tongue or call her name and there are no problems at all to get her focus.

[Tor]

On I like the look of that Choose Me game, we will definitely play that.

We went to our enclosed dog park this morning, we had it all to ourselves so I did a bit of work on sit/drop/stand etc before he got to run free. also some long line recalls. Then while he was running I called him over when I thought he'd probably come and he did, every time although he still tends to run past me. Maybe 60% of he time he came right back to me and he got his favourite sticky cheese and I also played his favourite 'chase mum' game, where I duck and weave and he chases me.

Three small dogs arrived and I put him on lead, he was actually still listening to me quite well until they came running over to bark at him. Then he lost it and started really pulling so we called it a day. Oh not list it in the sense that he was barking or aggressive at all, just wriggly and really wanting to say hello. I knew he wouldn't be able to listen calmly so I thought it was best to go.

I so appreciate all the input in this thread, realising you're clicking for calm notice of a distraction was a light bulb moment!

Edited June 22, 2016 by Tor

[JulesP]

Stand with your back against the fence when you call him so he can't run past :)

[Tor]

Brilliant

[Tor]

Ok we just played Choose Me in the front yard and he got the idea super quickly. But he just started following me around staring at me ????. At least I had his attention. I'll try when there's more going on in the street, it's so wet and cold no one was walking past.

[sheena]

Ok we just played Choose Me in the front yard and he got the idea super quickly. But he just started following me around staring at me . At least I had his attention. I'll try when there's more going on in the street, it's so wet and cold no one was walking past.

Ok..so now is the time to start working on duration of attention or be a little more specific about the position you want him in ie next to your left hip, if teaching him to heel. It is also important to have a "that will do" cue, meaning "training has finished, now go sniff/play etc". It is the same with clicker training..you must have a "finish" cue so the dog knows that training has finished for the moment. Sounds like you are going gangbusters Also keep your treats out of sight otherwise he will be focusing on where the treats are coming from, rather than focusing on you...maybe mix it up a bit with some treats coming out of different pockets etc or even spat out of your mouth.

ETA..if he is coming back to you but running past, have him on a long line with a knot tied every meter or so. when he runs past, simply put your foot on the line to stop him.

Edited June 22, 2016 by sheena

[Tor]

Yes I was noticing he was looking towards where the treats were coming from, I'll have to hide them better. He was also pushing the clicker with his nose a bit, he seems to have worked out where the magic treat noise is coming from, and thought he'd give it a go himself!

With stepping on the long line, would that be if he was running and trailing the line behind him? I've just been doing long line recalls still holding the line.

[sheena]

Yes I was noticing he was looking towards where the treats were coming from, I'll have to hide them better. He was also pushing the clicker with his nose a bit, he seems to have worked out where the magic treat noise is coming from, and thought he'd give it a go himself!

With stepping on the long line, would that be if he was running and trailing the line behind him? I've just been doing long line recalls still holding the line.

Yes...let him run around with the long line attached, while you are training & then if he runs past you, just step on it. The knots will stop it slipping from under your feet. It is not a good idea to reach down & grab a long line that a puppy is running with, as it can give you rope burn. Of course I am assuming you are training in an enclosed area, you wouldn't let him run around in an area where he could get tangled up.

[persephone]

hey - it seems you have one very honest, willing and attentive pup! the BEST sort of pupil :D

[Willem]

Yes I was noticing he was looking towards where the treats were coming from, I'll have to hide them better. He was also pushing the clicker with his nose a bit, he seems to have worked out where the magic treat noise is coming from, and thought he'd give it a go himself!

With stepping on the long line, would that be if he was running and trailing the line behind him? I've just been doing long line recalls still holding the line.

Yes...let him run around with the long line attached, while you are training & then if he runs past you, just step on it. The knots will stop it slipping from under your feet. It is not a good idea to reach down & grab a long line that a puppy is running with, as it can give you rope burn. Of course I am assuming you are training in an enclosed area, you wouldn't let him run around in an area where he could get tangled up.

IMO it is also not a good idea to step on it, for a few reasons:

• the rope / leash can be tangled around a leg, happens easily when the dog runs a little bit wild - stepping on the leash followed by a harsh stopp could lead to serious injuries, ligament ruptures or broken legs.
  
• and if it is not tangled, the impact a sudden stop causes for a fast running dog is equivalent to a very sever jerk.
  
• and if you can't stop the dog with this sever jerk, it might be enough to get you out of balance...
  

if it is enclosed, he can run around without leash - if the leash is attached, hold the leash in your hand and keep the control all the time.

[Tor]

Oh dear, I need everyone giving me advice to agree :D.

The area is totally enclosed, I'm really lucky. Actually we had a bit of a test this morning. I was out with him very early doing a leash walk and delivering newspapers. We had just got out of the car and we're heading along the footpath when his leash dropped off! I hadn't clipped it properly - it was still dark and I didn't check closely. I'm not sure he realised but I just quickly said 'Sebastian, come!" and he came straight to me. He was only a couple of metres away but I was very relieved he didnt dash off across the road, (it was a very quiet street where we were, but only about 50m from a big busy road).

I had the clicker and treats with me and we did some good LAT practice with people going past and a dog on the other side of the road. He definitely snapped back to me each time I clicked and he didn't get really excited the way he usually would. One thing though, he looks at me, gets his treat and then looks straight back at whatever the distraction is. Should I keep clicking and treating as long as he is calm, or should I get him to walk away at this stage after one repetition?

He still did some lunging at leaves blown garland and a plastic bag, but I think a lot of that is puppy excitement and will wear off a bit as he gets older. Or am I kidding myself?