Dogs Jaw Lock

[Two Best Dogs!]

The fire extinguisher (powder type) in the eyes does work. And has the advantage that you don't have to get too close, and the dog can't see (temporarily) to renew it's attack or turn on you - it gives you a bit of time to get away. Which is fine if you happen to be at home...

The problem is finding one small enough to take with you on walks. I've googled, and it seems there are a few small ones around designed for use on boats. But they were all on US websites...

Yacht clubs and fishing stores. Camping stores to, Aussie disposal sells some nice small ones :)

[RuralPug]

The moment breed is raised in any of these discussions, the argument is lost.

The issue of a dog's danger is about genetics AND socialisation (or the lack thereof) AND environment AND history AND owner AND 'victim behaviour.

Clearly the larger the dog, the bigger the risk of serious injury and the more difficult for a human to deter.

But seriously people, can the breed bashing/defending. That's precisely the kind of specious thinking that got us BSL in the first place.

We're on a dog forum. Lets talk like knowledgeable dog people.

Thumbs up to this!

Ignore breed when discussing fighting - if you need to generalise, only mention size or coat or head type. Remember, ALL breeds have the potential to attack.

[sheena]

I did ask in my opening post that this NOT be turned into a "BullBashing" thread. If everyone could keep the discussion on how to react to a dog attack, please.

On an update note...the offending dog has been released back to it's owners

[The Spotted Devil]

I did ask in my opening post that this NOT be turned into a "BullBashing" thread. If everyone could keep the discussion on how to react to a dog attack, please.

On an update note...the offending dog has been released back to it's owners

Bloody hell sheena. And therein lies the problem

I gave a lecture this morning on BSL and dog attacks (human victims) so this is front of mind at the moment.

[sparkycat]

Sorry this happened to your friend Sheena - I hope they both recover quickly.

Although a different situation but I managed to get one of mine to drop a very dead bird by hosing his mouth - I guess a high pressure hose in the mouth might work to break up a fight.

[Simply Grand]

Having spent a lot of time at dog parks I have several times headed off or interrupted before noise and snapping escalated fights by grabbing both collar and a handful of scruff (skin) and twisting HARD and lifting.

I've actuallly held my Aussie Shepherd and a German Shepherd apart one in each hand until someone else grabbed the GSD doing this (breeds only mentioned for size reference!). This was a "we don't know each other and are trying to establish our relationship" fight though, not a trying to kill each other fight, so I'm not saying that would always be possible! Some guy that was there commented that I was brave (with the implication of also stupid) but it was a case of if this keeps escalating my dog is smaller an less strong so she won't come out best and I have to do something.

The three times my dogs have been attacked, as in targeted by a dog that meant business (not gotten in a two way scuffle) it ended because:

1st time - my Sheltie grabbed by a much larger dog. Other dog owner went to pull her dog away, he still had a grip on Riley so I said don't pull, I held Riley up towards the dog's mouth so he wasn't hanging and we all stood still until the other dog let go to adjust his bite and we pulled them apart.

2nd time - off lead dog on the street approached my Aussie Shepherd on lead, they sniffed, then the other dog launched for Quinn's neck. Quinn fought back briefly but realised she was beaten and tried to get away, I managed to fall over sort of right next to Quinn on the ground and somehow ended up with a grip of the other dog's scruff and my thumb in its mouth in that gap where they have little teeth behind the canines and again, the dogs and I all sort of stayed still for a moment, with it having a grip on Quinn but not a full one coz my thumb was in the way...and then just because of adrenaline and frustration I roared at it to "f***ng let go" and pushed my thumb hard at the roof of its mouth, and it did enough for its two owners to pull it away.

3rd time - the other week, walking my three, loose dog comes barreling out an open gate straight at us, I saw it and started roaring and it to get away. It aimed for the smallest dog, poodle x, and grabbed a him several times, then had a few grabs at the Sheltie but I think because there were the three dogs plus me and the Aussie Shepherd yelling and charging at it and me kicking it wherever I could get to, it couldn't get a good grip. With this one I got hold of it's collar and scruff and twisted and lifted, and that actually stopped it, then I held it with one hand while I got one of my leashes off my dog and got it in a slip around the attacking dogs neck and held it up, choking it (then the owner finally came out and got it an abused me *eye roll*).

I'm SURE with this one if the dog had been able to get a good grip on the neck of one of my little dogs my dog would be seriously injured or dead. It did try the neck snapping "death" shake thing but thankfully didn't have a good enough grip in the confusion. And if I had had to choke the dog to death to stop it I would have, not that I wanted to but when you are scared for your dog's life you don't really give a crap about the other dog.

So my tips are

1. Keep an eye out always so you can hopefully see trouble coming and get on the front foot with going towards the dog, charging, stomping and roaring (I know that sounds dumb bit it really is roaring, not yelling, as deep as you can, growly so your throat hurts afterwards, and LOUD)

2. Always always wear good enclosed stable shoes or boots when you take dogs out so you can run and/or KICK if you need to (I HATE seeing people out with their dogs in thongs)

3. Go for the collar AND scruff and twist hard, and lift and hold

4. Get a slip lead around the neck if you can and pull up hard

I think one of the important parts is how the humans react, you have to stay calm and not scream or cry or panic (I know easier said than done). I think you being calm and taking action keeps your dog/s a bit less panicky and incites the attacking dog less, and (again sounds dumb) I like to think if what is going through your head is "this is not happening, I am stopping this" you project it a bit to the dogs maybe.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Simply Grand

[The Spotted Devil]

I get so mad when my dogs are threatened. It's not pretty I take shit loads of precautions so I just don't have to ever be in that situation again.

Had quite the experience with DOLer Leopuppy04 recently. I'll preface this by saying that she is one of the people I 100% trust with my dogs - we have a similar philosophy and approach to training. We caught up and our dogs were free running together. Her gorgeous young male was being just a crazy puppy (with testicles) and part of his playing style was to launch at my entire male Dalmatian with delighted growling. Due to prior experience Zig was immediately on the defensive and was seriously pissed off. In slow motion she grabbed Zig by the scruff and force fed him treats (not hard :laugh:) and I grabbed her youngster by the collar and did the same. We both acted instinctively and it probably would never work with dogs other than ours. It was kinda awesome.

[Dame Aussie]

When one of our dogs was attacked a few hard boots to the body and head of the offending dog got it off :/

That was my husband who is fairly strong though, I think a break stick would be the best bet if kicking it wasn't possible.

ETA: Said dog had previously put a little girl in hospital but still went back to the owners. This is part of the issue.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Dame Aussie

[silentchild]

This thread is terrifying, one of my worst nightmares and I hope I will never have to experience an attack. Can't imagine carrying a fire extinguisher around with me on walks!

[Simply Grand]

Silentchild, I don't enjoy our walks around here at all now, there are just too many dogs around here that fence run at the front and most fences are low and could easily be jumped if the dogs were so inclined so I just have a knot in my stomach the whole time.

And I've been really lucky that my dogs haven't shown ill effects from their attacks but you never know if once more might be the time that either I can't stop it or it does psychological damage to the dogs.

Unfortunately I don't have a car at the moment so they are not getting out much unfortunately, but I will be getting a car soon and will be able to take them safer places :)

Edited May 4, 2016 by Simply Grand

[sheena]

This thread is terrifying, one of my worst nightmares and I hope I will never have to experience an attack. Can't imagine carrying a fire extinguisher around with me on walks!

I wonder how fly spray could alter a dog's behaviour if sprayed in its face..or some other household readily available pressure spray. Obviously hard to do to avoid getting in the face of your own dog, but it might be enough to make the other dog back off...don't know. Capsicum spray, would be good but it is not legal.

[Katdogs]

Having spent a lot of time at dog parks I have several times headed off or interrupted before noise and snapping escalated fights by grabbing both collar and a handful of scruff (skin) and twisting HARD and lifting.

I've actuallly held my Aussie Shepherd and a German Shepherd apart one in each hand until someone else grabbed the GSD doing this (breeds only mentioned for size reference!). This was a "we don't know each other and are trying to establish our relationship" fight though, not a trying to kill each other fight, so I'm not saying that would always be possible! Some guy that was there commented that I was brave (with the implication of also stupid) but it was a case of if this keeps escalating my dog is smaller an less strong so she won't come out best and I have to do something.

The three times my dogs have been attacked, as in targeted by a dog that meant business (not gotten in a two way scuffle) it ended because:

1st time - my Sheltie grabbed by a much larger dog. Other dog owner went to pull her dog away, he still had a grip on Riley so I said don't pull, I held Riley up towards the dog's mouth so he wasn't hanging and we all stood still until the other dog let go to adjust his bite and we pulled them apart.

2nd time - off lead dog on the street approached my Aussie Shepherd on lead, they sniffed, then the other dog launched for Quinn's neck. Quinn fought back briefly but realised she was beaten and tried to get away, I managed to fall over sort of right next to Quinn on the ground and somehow ended up with a grip of the other dog's scruff and my thumb in its mouth in that gap where they have little teeth behind the canines and again, the dogs and I all sort of stayed still for a moment, with it having a grip on Quinn but not a full one coz my thumb was in the way...and then just because of adrenaline and frustration I roared at it to "f***ng let go" and pushed my thumb hard at the roof of its mouth, and it did enough for its two owners to pull it away.

3rd time - the other week, walking my three, loose dog comes barreling out an open gate straight at us, I saw it and started roaring and it to get away. It aimed for the smallest dog, poodle x, and grabbed a him several times, then had a few grabs at the Sheltie but I think because there were the three dogs plus me and the Aussie Shepherd yelling and charging at it and me kicking it wherever I could get to, it couldn't get a good grip. With this one I got hold of it's collar and scruff and twisted and lifted, and that actually stopped it, then I held it with one hand while I got one of my leashes off my dog and got it in a slip around the attacking dogs neck and held it up, choking it (then the owner finally came out and got it an abused me *eye roll*).

I'm SURE with this one if the dog had been able to get a good grip on the neck of one of my little dogs my dog would be seriously injured or dead. It did try the neck snapping "death" shake thing but thankfully didn't have a good enough grip in the confusion. And if I had had to choke the dog to death to stop it I would have, not that I wanted to but when you are scared for your dog's life you don't really give a crap about the other dog.

So my tips are

1. Keep an eye out always so you can hopefully see trouble coming and get on the front foot with going towards the dog, charging, stomping and roaring (I know that sounds dumb bit it really is roaring, not yelling, as deep as you can, growly so your throat hurts afterwards, and LOUD)

2. Always always wear good enclosed stable shoes or boots when you take dogs out so you can run and/or KICK if you need to (I HATE seeing people out with their dogs in thongs)

3. Go for the collar AND scruff and twist hard, and lift and hold

4. Get a slip lead around the neck if you can and pull up hard

I think one of the important parts is how the humans react, you have to stay calm and not scream or cry or panic (I know easier said than done). I think you being calm and taking action keeps your dog/s a bit less panicky and incites the attacking dog less, and (again sounds dumb) I like to think if what is going through your head is "this is not happening, I am stopping this" you project it a bit to the dogs maybe.

Great post.

[Pjrt]

A noise startle like a personal alarm or even old fashioned whistle would be enough to startle and divert most dogs.

[Diva]

I don't know how to cope with the really determined attackers, my dogs are always on lead and I don't want to let go and have them run across a road, but I don't want to go down in the middle of an attack either. They have been attacked several times since I moved to Canberra, the scariest was a couple of GSDs running loose without an owner in sight and my 2 on lead. Didn't matter what I did they ignored me and kept lunging in at my then puppy, I kept trying to circle and keep her behind me. I was just lucky my older bitch was also with me and she was determined to defend the pup. The GSDs wanted to bite the fluffy white puppy not a full on fight with a very angry adult Borzoi so they eventually ran off. It did affect her and my reaction to rushing dogs though, she became defensive on lead for a bit and I became much more wary.

Then there was the Staffy type which broke right through its owners' front screen door to rush across the road and attack my on lead dog, I was lucky that time that a passing tradie stopped his ute and came running up to pull it off and send it packing. That was the second time passing drivers have seen an attack in progress and stopped to help me.

Attacks make me very angry, when the owners have been there they have been useless in managing their own dogs, half the time they haven't even tried much until mine start to fight back and they realise their own dogs might be about to get a thumping. I have whole streets I avoid on walks because the chance of a known aggressive dog being out is too high.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Diva

[Akayla]

Wow your friend is brave! Not many people would have even tried with that kind of dog. I hope she and her pet recover quickly!

A fire extinguisher would be awesome if you had one on hand. They use those on big cats effectively.

Slamming a folded chair or door between two dogs. I am not sure how this would go with too big a size difference but I used this when one of my GSD bitches tried to kill my other bitch. I tried a bucket of water over the head, lifting up by the back legs and a broom handle to no avail so I dragged the attacker (and she dragged my other bitch by the throat) to a doorway and slammed the metal door on her muzzle as hard as humanly possible.

I have used my hands before by getting in around the gap between teeth and pulling the muzzle slightly apart or poking the soft tissue at the top of the mouth. It only works to open the mouth slightly but sometimes you can slip the other dog free. However I have a good sized scar on my hand from a tooth going through for interfering so you do so at your own risk. When there's a choice stay away from the cranky parts. My mum had laceration to her hands from doing this once. She was out walking her Chin x Peke when two greyhounds grabbed her. She couldn't think of/see anything to use at the time so tried to pry the jaws apart with her own hands. When that failed she called my Czech Shepherd who she had also been walking and she sorted the greyhounds out (she didn't harm them, just rushed up and scared the daylights out of them). The Greys owner couldn't help as he had three more that hadn't escaped their leads.

As others have said cutting off the airways can work. You need something to use though. so I guess in summary it depends on what you have on hand.

Don't know why some of you are laying into Scootaloo. They clearly stated they saw a video this morning which has made them feel hostile to some types of dogs. Nowhwere did they say they only believe "those" types of dogs can and do attack. Obviously the video they saw has upset them greatly.

Thank you Rebanne, it was one of the first things I saw on my newsfeed this morning and was horrifying. There was a person stabbing this dog with a knife and it didn't even appear to notice. I really, really doubt that if it was a Cattle dog or GSD that it would be able to ignore that.

And if I'm going to be attacked by anything, give me a Westie or Jack Russel over a Pitbull any day.

Actually think about police/war dogs. Being stabbed does not slow them down at all (well not at first). Some dogs are very focused. Once they decide to do something there is little to dissuade them. Luckily when it comes to service dogs they are very well trained but the focus is the same.

I was attacked by what I would describe as a Dalmatian x as a kid. That dog terrorized the neighbourhood and was known to savage huge men. So you cant say only one kind of dog is an issue. Heck if I listed all the dogs that I have seen that have serious aggression issues we would be here a while. I have seen a Chi put a grown woman in hospital.

[*kirty*]

Every time one of my dogs has been attacked I have booted the attacking dog as hard as I could until someone else came to help. When the attacking dog is in full frenzy mode, they don't feel pain. Someone else has had to choke and pull the attacking dog off mine.

[Dogsfevr]

Many methodsMAY work but most rely on other people being there & working together when the key word is given.

Size or breed makes very little difference once they decide to latch on .

Certainly the figure up the bum does work BUT the last time i saw that method used both dogs where on leads & the third party did the deed & told them when to move far away quickly

[Simply Grand]

Yes, on your own in a dog fight/attack I think it would be very difficult to actually get close enough and aim enough to get a finger up a bum, especially if longer fur is involved. I guess I'd try it if I had to though.

[Simply Grand]

The moment breed is raised in any of these discussions, the argument is lost.

The issue of a dog's danger is about genetics AND socialisation (or the lack thereof) AND environment AND history AND owner AND 'victim behaviour.

Clearly the larger the dog, the bigger the risk of serious injury and the more difficult for a human to deter.

But seriously people, can the breed bashing/defending. That's precisely the kind of specious thinking that got us BSL in the first place.

We're on a dog forum. Lets talk like knowledgeable dog people.

Also meant to say, yes, exactly!

[Simply Grand]

Diva, re the dropping the leash thing, I had/have exactly the same concern as mine are inclined to go exploring and have no road sense. With our attack #2, where I fell over, I accidentally dropped the leashes anyway and even though Quinn was pinned and couldn't go anywhere, and the two boys are on a coupler so would have to cooperate to run off, none of them actually tried to run off, they stayed close to me even afterwards.

Same with attack #3 the other week, I didn't want to drop the leads as we were actually on a road, but no one else was coming to help and I had to get hold of the attacking dog so I did, and again they didn't run, they stayed close to me.

No guarantee off course but I guess you have to weigh up the lesser of two evils.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Simply Grand