Toilet Training - Advice Needed

[Isabel964]

Lucy, our 6 month Kelpue cross pup we adopted through pet rescue, has been my most challenging dog to date to toilet train. It was as if she had been used to bring locked in a house and toileting on carpet was perfectly normal. She even avoided puppy pads, toileting Ng next them and never on them. But we got there and had no accidents for over a month.

Lucy has access indoor and outdoor through a door to the deck & garden that is open and a doggy door via the laundry to the other side of the house.

Today was wet and windy, and she did three lots of toiletting in the house. While the weather was a bit extreme, she could have just done it just off the deck where it's a bit sheltered... though would have been wet if raining at the time. She has been known to toilet on the deck, she could have done that. But no, she did it inside. I was at work.

With winter coming and days of rain all day coming I'm not sure what to do. My other dog just goes out and gets a bit wet. Should I just get a kennel and leave her outside? I don't really want to do that.

Any advice?

[Willem]

Lucy, our 6 month Kelpue cross pup we adopted through pet rescue, has been my most challenging dog to date to toilet train. It was as if she had been used to bring locked in a house and toileting on carpet was perfectly normal. She even avoided puppy pads, toileting Ng next them and never on them. But we got there and had no accidents for over a month.

Lucy has access indoor and outdoor through a door to the deck & garden that is open and a doggy door via the laundry to the other side of the house.

Today was wet and windy, and she did three lots of toiletting in the house. While the weather was a bit extreme, she could have just done it just off the deck where it's a bit sheltered... though would have been wet if raining at the time. She has been known to toilet on the deck, she could have done that. But no, she did it inside. I was at work.

With winter coming and days of rain all day coming I'm not sure what to do. My other dog just goes out and gets a bit wet. Should I just get a kennel and leave her outside? I don't really want to do that.

Any advice?

for you the weather is a bit extreme - for her it is a total new world outside as she is only 6 month old and likely never experienced it before, hence someone has to show / teach her that toilet rules don't change for extreme weather. With 6 month every day brings something new for her that can break already trained behaviour - you can't expect that a 6 month old dog is stable. Find someone who can walk her - also if it rains - if you can't while at work.

Eta the red bit...as if you only walk your dog in nice weather...guess what might happen?

Edited May 3, 2016 by Willem

[karen15]

I've got exactly the same problem with a three year old dog, so would love to hear suggestions. At the moment put her in her crate while I'm gone for a few hours, but don't think it's a good / fair option while I'm at work. I'm utterly furious, which is not helping the situation. She is a rehome and I haven't had her 12 months. It has taken me a while to link the behavior to weather. She spent a fair bit of the weekend locked outside so she could see there are dry spots even if the weather is horrible. Hasn't helped.

[Rebanne]

Can you confine her to the area where she can get access to outside i.e the kitchen or laundry. I must admit I wouldn't trust a 6 month old loose in the whole house. I have a 9 1/2 year old Princess who detests getting her feet wet. We argue at the start of every winter with me standing out in the rain until she goes before letting her back into the house. After a couple of reminders she's pretty good for the rest of the year but still sometimes pees on the carpet on the back verandah. Her grand daughter, at nearly 2, shows the same inclination but isn't quite as bad. I'd go back to taking her outside and rewarding when she goes out in the rain

[Scottsmum]

Can you confine her to the area where she can get access to outside i.e the kitchen or laundry. I must admit I wouldn't trust a 6 month old loose in the whole house. I have a 9 1/2 year old Princess who detests getting her feet wet. We argue at the start of every winter with me standing out in the rain until she goes before letting her back into the house. After a couple of reminders she's pretty good for the rest of the year but still sometimes pees on the carpet on the back verandah. Her grand daughter, at nearly 2, shows the same inclination but isn't quite as bad. I'd go back to taking her outside and rewarding when she goes out in the rain

This. Been there. Done that. Keep plugging at the basics.

[Willem]

I've got exactly the same problem with a three year old dog, so would love to hear suggestions. At the moment put her in her crate while I'm gone for a few hours, but don't think it's a good / fair option while I'm at work. I'm utterly furious, which is not helping the situation. She is a rehome and I haven't had her 12 months. It has taken me a while to link the behavior to weather. She spent a fair bit of the weekend locked outside so she could see there are dry spots even if the weather is horrible. Hasn't helped.

it puzzles me sometimes what dog owners expect from their dogs without giving them the required training...but hey, there is still the crate...

[Vehs]

Lucy, our 6 month Kelpue cross pup we adopted through pet rescue, has been my most challenging dog to date to toilet train. It was as if she had been used to bring locked in a house and toileting on carpet was perfectly normal. She even avoided puppy pads, toileting Ng next them and never on them. But we got there and had no accidents for over a month.

Lucy has access indoor and outdoor through a door to the deck & garden that is open and a doggy door via the laundry to the other side of the house.

Today was wet and windy, and she did three lots of toiletting in the house. While the weather was a bit extreme, she could have just done it just off the deck where it's a bit sheltered... though would have been wet if raining at the time. She has been known to toilet on the deck, she could have done that. But no, she did it inside. I was at work.

With winter coming and days of rain all day coming I'm not sure what to do. My other dog just goes out and gets a bit wet. Should I just get a kennel and leave her outside? I don't really want to do that.

Any advice?

We have gone through similar with our rescue (a 5 year old shihtzu x) - and it took over 6 months (knock on wood) you've got to set them up for success.

Keep to a routine just like if they were a baby puppy - wee run first thing in the morning, after they wake up from a nap, first thing when you get home from work (although our dog would wee from excitement of us being home too..), after dinner, before bed.

I agree with others - allow her access to the house but keep it confined to a smaller area on rainy days or at first, maybe just the laundry. We were able to give access to the laundry and tiled hallway and main bathroom when we first got our dog. This was important as the other two dogs were inside dogs and shouldn't be 'punished' because of the new one.

Our rescue also hated getting her feet wet and we learnt to be extra vigilant in rainy weather - fortunately we have a large covered outdoor deck with garden areas and the older dogs would wee in those gardens during the rain so we encouraged her to go in those spaces as well - carrying her to the covered gardens and commanding her to wee (lots of treats and praise).

In the rain we really have to watch her, if we are all chilling out and she gets up we immediately take her outside because sometimes she's just snuck out of the room and weed on a rug. Sometimes I'd be cooking and turn around and she would have weed on the rug. It's frustrating, but you've only yourself to blame for not watching her - I think I only caught her in the act once and managed to whisk her mid stream outside, but when I miss it I just have to clean it up and not say anything to her - my husband got mad at her once and she rolled over and peed all over herself and rolled in it more so he learnt to stop doing that because he had twice as much mess and a dog to bath

[Willem]

I've got exactly the same problem with a three year old dog, so would love to hear suggestions. At the moment put her in her crate while I'm gone for a few hours, but don't think it's a good / fair option while I'm at work. I'm utterly furious, which is not helping the situation. She is a rehome and I haven't had her 12 months. It has taken me a while to link the behavior to weather. She spent a fair bit of the weekend locked outside so she could see there are dry spots even if the weather is horrible. Hasn't helped.

That sounds cruel and lazy and I'm not surprised it didn't work. Your poor bloody dog.

na, doesn't have to be cruel (believe me, there are dogs (e.g. our dog) that prefer to be outside where they can entertain themself instead of being crated for XX hours inside the house)...the point is that it doesn't teach the dog anything about the correct toilet procedures without the owner's guidance, hence it is IMO a little bit unfair to expect this from a dog.

[karen15]

1. The dog has a toilet command and is very good at it.

2. The behavior only happens when I am not home. In the absence of the option of putting sensors on her and teleporting home the instant she squats, for some strange reason I am not able to take her outside to give her the toilet command when I am not home.

3. The whole point of the time in the crate was so I could take her outside when I got home and reinforce toileting outside.

4. When I was out for an extended period the only logical option (I agree with Willem that it is entirely preferable to long crate time, hence why I did it) was to restrict access to the house. That way the dog cannot make the mistake. I cannot for the life of me see how that is lazy and cruel.

I didn't see the point in mentioning the above given the thread was about undoing toilet training, thus implying the the dog is already trained.

What I've garnered from this thread is this forum is a total waste of my time.

Edited May 4, 2016 by karen15

[aussielover]

If it is safe to do so I would leave her outside when you are not home. That way she can't make any mistakes. As long as you provide a warm kennel, toys and interactive food dispensers such as a Kong or treat ball a 6 month old kelpie should be able to handle being outside for a few hours.

Additionally I would still expect a few accidents at 6 months of age and wouldn't panic too much at this stage.

[Willem]

1. The dog has a toilet command and is very good at it.

2. The behavior only happens when I am not home. In the absence of the option of putting sensors on her and teleporting home the instant she squats, for some strange reason I am not able to take her outside to give her the toilet command when I am not home.

3. The whole point of the time in the crate was so I could take her outside when I got home and reinforce toileting outside.

4. When I was out for an extended period the only logical option (I agree with Willem that it is entirely preferable to long crate time, hence why I did it) was to restrict access to the house. That way the dog cannot make the mistake. I cannot for the life of me see how that is lazy and cruel.

I didn't see the point in mentioning the above given the thread was about undoing toilet training, thus implying the the dog is already trained.

What I've garnered from this thread is this forum is a total waste of my time.

wrt 1 and 2: that's exactly the problem, the dog just does what he was trained to do. If the weather is not in his favor and no one there who guidance him and gives the command - why should he go outside for the toilet?

He also has a 2 year history in an other home / environment which might or might not make the required training harder. No owner in sight and harsh weather outside and he might do what he did for the last 2 years. IMO there isn't (and never was) an equivalent substitute for walking the dog for a decent toilet training: the body movement is good for the bowl movement, the poos and pees from other dogs as triggers - for most puppies it only takes a few days with several walks each day to get the idea. Conversely for an older dog it can be tricky. In your case I would make sure that your dog gets walked especially on rainy and windy days, and I wouldn't try to force it with a command - just normal praise when it happens.

Eta:...regarding 'equivalent substitute' I wrote 'is' instead of 'isn't' ...I guess the context made it clear enough what I mean....

Edited May 5, 2016 by Willem

[Rebanne]

1. The dog has a toilet command and is very good at it.

2. The behavior only happens when I am not home. In the absence of the option of putting sensors on her and teleporting home the instant she squats, for some strange reason I am not able to take her outside to give her the toilet command when I am not home.

3. The whole point of the time in the crate was so I could take her outside when I got home and reinforce toileting outside.

4. When I was out for an extended period the only logical option (I agree with Willem that it is entirely preferable to long crate time, hence why I did it) was to restrict access to the house. That way the dog cannot make the mistake. I cannot for the life of me see how that is lazy and cruel.

I didn't see the point in mentioning the above given the thread was about undoing toilet training, thus implying the the dog is already trained.

What I've garnered from this thread is this forum is a total waste of my time.

You hijacked this thread which is against forum rules and then you abuse others when you don't like their replies. Suggest you delete your comments before Troy does so for you after I report you.

[Salukifan]

How about we stop the hair pulling and focus on what matters - the dog!

If the OP is still around, here's my advice.

What the OP just learned is that toilet training that is seemingly sorted can come unstuck when a pup is confronted with a new situation. She is not alone - I expect that many of us have found pups have done the entirely sensible (for them) thing in bad weather and remained inside. They ain't stupid.

Locking the dog outside won't teach it to go outside when its inside because you've removed the requirement for the dog to choose where it goes.

So, back to basics. Back outside with the pup and reward it for toileting. Go out with it when you can in dodgy weather and jackpot toileting. Reinforce reinforce reinforce. And in the meantime, restrict the dog in your house.

I would not crate all day. A young pup deserves better than that. You just have to suck it up and persevere. Just keep the dog on hard floors if you can while you work on reinforcing the behaviour you want.

Oh, and the pup stopped being a rescue the day it came home. It is now an owned dog. It's not a description that's relevant any more. Your pup may have started its training after some other pups - that's why you should cut it some slack while you cement the training.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Maddy]

I can completely understand a dog not wanting to go outside to toilet in the rain and frankly, I'm not especially keen on being out there myself (especailly not when the late winter/early spring rains come) so we just taught our dogs to use Conni pads when necessary. Besides the obvious benefit of not having to clean up puddles or stand on the back porch with a stubborn dog at 2am, training them to use the pads is also helpful in other situations, such as when they can't go outside for some reason or if we had to travel with them.

There's more than one way to skin a cat

[Willem]

1. The dog has a toilet command and is very good at it.

2. The behavior only happens when I am not home. In the absence of the option of putting sensors on her and teleporting home the instant she squats, for some strange reason I am not able to take her outside to give her the toilet command when I am not home.

3. The whole point of the time in the crate was so I could take her outside when I got home and reinforce toileting outside.

4. When I was out for an extended period the only logical option (I agree with Willem that it is entirely preferable to long crate time, hence why I did it) was to restrict access to the house. That way the dog cannot make the mistake. I cannot for the life of me see how that is lazy and cruel.

I didn't see the point in mentioning the above given the thread was about undoing toilet training, thus implying the the dog is already trained.

What I've garnered from this thread is this forum is a total waste of my time.

You hijacked this thread which is against forum rules and then you abuse others when you don't like their replies. Suggest you delete your comments before Troy does so for you after I report you.

I can't recognize any hijacking - the posts / comments relate to a similar problem as described by the OP, so why shouldn't it be mentioned here?...furthermore the post from karen15 haven't been offensive or off-topic, and there is no obligation to like or to agree with other poster's comments. The threat of reporting someone for such posts is pretty childish...

Eta: I forgot to mention that I'm happy to get reported too :D

Edited May 5, 2016 by Willem

[karen15]

Thanks Willem. Thanks also to others for their suggestions. I thought my comments were on topic as they are the same issue as OP but in a mature dog that has now been rehomed four times before she turned three. I don't like being angry with her. It's not nice for either of us.

Willem, you have a point about park when its raining. We go out daily for an hour of a morning (park followed by a walk), the only exception being when it is wet. I will change that.

I've also started sending them out to the toilet before I leave the house. Similar to bedtime routine. In normal circumstances they take themselves out when needed. No issues. Once this wet weather behavior starts, even walking in the yard with her doesn't work. Puppy park would change that I'm sure.

I don't think she had the best upbringing. I suspect she may have been crated pretty much full-time.

In the nine months she's been with me she's learned how to instigate play. Today was another first with her and the puppy jumping on the bed this morning with a teddy each to play fetch. When I first got her, she had no idea about playing. Just getting her confident enough to sit upright in the middle of a room took ages. The poor thing had been taught that when a person stood up she had to be on her back. To me that is exceedingly sad. She now sleeps next to the couch / on the couch instead of not leaving the crate. Now she can be walked on a loopy lead instead of giving me blisters like she did in the first few weeks. So she's coming along. It's just this wet weather toilet issue.

That's all off topic, but is a bit of her background.

[Salukifan]

In the nine months she's been with me she's learned how to instigate play. Today was another first with her and the puppy jumping on the bed this morning with a teddy each to play fetch. When I first got her, she had no idea about playing. Just getting her confident enough to sit upright in the middle of a room took ages. The poor thing had been taught that when a person stood up she had to be on her back. To me that is exceedingly sad. She now sleeps next to the couch / on the couch instead of not leaving the crate. Now she can be walked on a loopy lead instead of giving me blisters like she did in the first few weeks. So she's coming along. It's just this wet weather toilet issue.

That's all off topic, but is a bit of her background.

The other completely probable and frankly more likely scenario is that the pup hasn't been taught anything. Unsocialised pups unaccustomed to strangers and of less outgoing temperaments are going to be submissive - which is what your pup was.

Imagining a harsh background for a rescue is often not accurate. It makes owners feel better that they've 'saved' a pup but the reality is often less dramatic although equally as sad. A lot of times this dogs haven't been abused, they've been ignored. They have no socialisation or experience to help them cope with a more full on life.

But that is history - and she is blossoming. Focus on that.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Isabel964]

Thank you for the helpful comments. I have found it very useful.

Please everybody, be nice. Katen15 genuinely posted, and I don't think there is reason to not be nice. We are all here to help each other with our joint experiences and questions, and to share our joys and tribulations with our wonderful dogs.

I can't only give access to to the laundry - well I could and it's s good idea, but my other dog has a tumour and her condition is deteriorating. Her quality of life is paramount right now - so I'll do more training of the kelpie.

trye! I mainly walk my dog in dry weather, and so she is not conditioned or used to toiletting in the rain. We started at an obedience dog club last week and they train rain hail or shine every Sunday morning. I will also do walks with her in the rain :). And it was good to read how 6 months is still young and seems my expectations have been too high - of course she will still make mistakes and of course I have not conditioned her to go in the rain. I've learned heaps. Seens obvious now in hindsight :) I'll also get a kennel for the deck, for certain times - there are other benefits to this.

[persephone]

And it was good to read how 6 months is still young and seems my expectations have been too high - of course she will still make mistakes and of course I have not conditioned her to go in the rain. I've learned heaps. Seens obvious now in hindsight :) I'll also get a kennel for the deck, for certain times - there are other benefits to this.

:)

[Willem]

...after a cold and rainy walk the coffee / cappuccino or hot chocolate taste twice as good