Ipo Specific Legislation

[sporti]

New to IPO.

Live in Vic. where its illegal.

Migrant to Aus. and just dont get it?

Does anyone care to explain, why this is illegal, and why it legal in other states.

Currently would have to a) break the law in training and b) travel to trial.

Seems crazy state of affairs, i totally do not understand?

IF you are someone in the know, do you think this rule will be overturned at any point?

Seems to me, that there are a lot of political people at the top. With conflict of interest, preventing it being de legislated.

[dragonwoman]

New to IPO.

Live in Vic. where its illegal.

Migrant to Aus. and just dont get it?

Does anyone care to explain, why this is illegal, and why it legal in other states.

Currently would have to a) break the law in training and b) travel to trial.

Seems crazy state of affairs, i totally do not understand?

IF you are someone in the know, do you think this rule will be overturned at any point?

Seems to me, that there are a lot of political people at the top. With conflict of interest, preventing it being de legislated.

It is government legislation and I don't believe it will ever be overturned, seems there is plenty of "underground" activity anyway for those who care to look for it............I am in no way involved BTW.. I don't think it is actually "legal" in other states, it just isn't illegal?

[Kavik]

I agree with dragonwoman.

It is not legal in other states, just not illegal. ANKC does not support IPO and often releases press statements to that effect, you can theoretically be kicked out of ANKC for participating, though I doubt that happens much since it is widely known who does participate. And I'm pretty sure in Companion Animals Act in NSW if your dog has been trained to attack/bite a person they are supposed to be declared dangerous with all the hoops you have to jump through with that (and IPO would probably count as such training)

[Nekhbet]

IPO itself is not illegal, bitework includes massive restrictions on the handler and dog. When they changed the laws IPO and the K9 security industry really took a dive. Very sad indeed.

[melzawelza]

I agree with dragonwoman.

It is not legal in other states, just not illegal. ANKC does not support IPO and often releases press statements to that effect, you can theoretically be kicked out of ANKC for participating, though I doubt that happens much since it is widely known who does participate. And I'm pretty sure in Companion Animals Act in NSW if your dog has been trained to attack/bite a person they are supposed to be declared dangerous with all the hoops you have to jump through with that (and IPO would probably count as such training)

Nope, no such thing in NSW. Dogs used for the purposes of hunting can be declared dangerous based on that, not dogs trained in bitework.

Edited May 3, 2016 by melzawelza

[Kavik]

What about this?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/caa1998174/s17.html

I'd say any civil work would certainly fall under that

Edited May 3, 2016 by Kavik

[melzawelza]

What about this?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/caa1998174/s17.html

I'd say any civil work would certainly fall under that

I'd argue that isn't the intention of that section of the Act but could *possibly* be used in the manner you have described if a council really had a vendetta and wanted to go down that path. Never been tested in court as far as I know so no idea if they'd be successful.

The issue that mostly likely prevents it ever happening here (heaps of people do bitwork including council officers taking a bite when they go for dangerous dog handling training) is that:

1. If a dog is biting a sleeve (not a person) in a controlled training environment it could be argued the dog was not incited to attack a person at all, and quite possibly be successfully argued and;

2. in order to issue penalties for a dog attack or declare a dog dangerous you'd need a report of such from a victim including a statement and the willingness to go to court should a fine or declaration be appealed. Can't see any decoys doing that.

Never heard of a council officer attempting to pursue based on that section (and like I said most take bites when doing dangerous dog handling training), and can't imagine any taking the risk of that falling over on appeal as it is fairly clearly not the intention of that section.

Edited May 4, 2016 by melzawelza

[Kavik]

countering your first point, in civil work the decoy is not wearing any protective equipment, just agitating the dog using voice and body movements.

Sometimes muzzle attacks are also done, with the dog muzzled and the decoy not wearing any protective gear.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Kavik

[melzawelza]

countering your first point, in civil work the decoy is not wearing any protective equipment, just agitating the dog using voice and body movements.

Sometimes muzzle attacks are also done, with the dog muzzled and the decoy not wearing any protective gear.

Certainly counters the first point, but I don't think affects the second one - it's not the intention of that section to target this issue and without a victim providing a statement you'd have fat chance of a penalty or declaration succeeding in court.

[sporti]

I think the point, about the need for a victim, who is willing to stand trial is an excellent one.

I cant imagine any handler doing so.

And re: 'its not legal, its just not illegal'. Same difference isnt it?. There can be no breaking of legislation, if there is no legislation, i would of thought?

[Willem]

IPO training (including bite work) is not illegal (and therefore legal) in NSW... it is just not promoted / recognized by the ANKC. There a some clubs in Sydney, e.g. http://www.sdsc.wgsdca.org.au/sydney_sportdog_club/Welcome.html where they do IPO training.

[Kavik]

There is also this club which trains for Mondioring

https://www.facebook.com/WaratahSportdogClub/

It is unfortunate that these sports will most likely never be recognised or promoted through the ANKC

[JulesP]

I thought it was 'illegal' in Victoria. I found this http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/pets/domestic-animal-businesses/training-establishments/dog-training-establishments-things-you-should-know

Protection training

Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licenced security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council.

Licensed security guards

Licensed security guards registered under the Private Agents Act 1966 are the only persons eligible to have their dogs trained as Protection Dogs, or to be trained in Protection Training.

Proof of Security Licence must be shown to the training establishment prior to commencement of Protection Training.

No member of the public may be trained in protection training unless the above pre-requisites are complied with.

Eligible dogs

Cartoon of a bulldog wearing a guard dog sign.The minimum age of a dog before protection training is allowed is 12 months.

Only recognised guarding breeds of the large variety and cross breeds of these, are allowed to be trained in protection training. These breeds are:

German Shepherd;

Rottweiler;

Doberman;

Other breeds recognised by the VCA as large guarding breeds.

Council notification

An owner must notify the appropriate municipality immediately when attack training has commenced.

Dangerous dogs

Dogs that have been trained to attack are dangerous dogs, and owners will be required to adhere to prescribed conditions (contact your council for details). This includes clear identification of the dog and methods of restraint that will protect the community.

[JulesP]

You are also up for higher penalties if your 'attack trained' dog chomps someone.

[Kavik]

Ah, OK so it is in Vic that any protection trained or protection sport trained dogs will be declared dangerous, thanks! :)