Electric No Bark Collars

[Nekhbet]

if the dog is not barking and a complaint is lodged then that is simply harrasment. Speak to your council, make them see you are not an antagonist. Ask them to help you with the problem dog (if it is indeed a problem barker), or show you are making an effort through letters and vet visits etc and they wont take too drastic action against you. Maybe set up a video camera to show the dogs behaviour to the council. If a complaint is made then you have evidence of how rowdy the dog actually is. Yes people, we have become prisoners to the stupid people in society.

On the other topic -> I just got a 7 level anti-barking collar (after all the mess and fuss) from Innotek and its working. We've gone down from continuous barking to occasional woofs when somethings really is wrong. I didnt like the idea originally but it was the only option left for us. She was loving the sound of her own voice and from 5am onwards the undesexed male terriers next door would antagonise her into playing 'who can bark louder' competition all day. Plus I work a rotating roster so I got no sleep at all. She hasnt shown signs of physical damage or distress from the collar, she's still a happy girl and doesnt mind its own. I also havnt seen any pain caused by the shock when she barks. The first time, she woofed and then stopped with a puzzled look on her face, tried woof again and same look. She occasionaly forgets its there, has a woof and immediately stops. Now when she desperately wants attention she whispers her woof at me and shakes her paw in a high 5, rather funny. I can hardly wait to toss it in the bin but i'll sing its praises for now as I would never ever de-bark her.

Edited May 23, 2005 by Nekhbet

[EddyAnne]

EddyAnne

Quoted:

Victorian Consolidated Regulations - PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS REGULATIONS 1997 - SECT 7E

Denis Carthy

I find that strange, in the Innotek Vs RSPCA 2002 evidence was given to the FEDERAL COURT OF AUSTRALIA that there was no ban or restrictions, the RSPCA could not forwards any evidence that there was.

G'day, Eddy here.

Firstly Denis as to the court case maybe I can find some things that went against Innotek, and keep in mind that Mr & Mrs Holliday of ("Orion" & "Innotek") had to pay Dr Wirth a total of $30,000 yet we only seem to hear about Innotek winning in court. From the below it might appear that the RSPCA recognises and accepts the use of "check chain" or "choker" collars and accepted that dogs were often trained by being hit with various implements, including rolled-up newspapers, then how can the RSPCA condoned the use of electric fences to keep dogs and domestic animals from straying or the use of electric shock anti-barking collars, and maybe this had something to do with the results of the case and that the RSPCA sells "check chain" or "choker" collars. Anyway here is some transcript from the case reflecting this, and keep in mind that the court case revolved around the "Trade Practices Act":-

116 The respondents accepted that the mere fact that a method of training involved the infliction of a measure of pain did not render it cruel. The RSPCA itself recognised that "check chain" or "choker" collars, products which it sold, could inflict pain. It also accepted that dogs were often trained by being hit with various implements, including rolled-up newspapers. It condoned the use of electric fences to keep dogs and domestic animals from straying. It also condoned the branding of horses and cattle with red-hot irons. Plainly this involved the infliction of pain. None of these techniques had been the subject of a "campaign" of the type which it had waged against electronic dog collars. Presumably they were not regarded as "cruel".

119 Innotek did not deny that the collars produced an unpleasant sensation, and one which could reasonably be characterised as "pain". Indeed, it contended that the collars would be worthless if they did not do so. The question was whether the level of "pain" produced could be justified, having regard to the benefits which the collars offered.

120 Innotek submitted that the evidence established that, in some cases, the only practical means to save a dog's life was the use of an electronic dog collar. Some dogs were at risk of being put down unless they stopped barking. Others were at risk of being killed by traffic unless they were prevented from straying. It was obvious that electronic dog collars could be used in a cruel manner. However, in any such case, it would be the misuse of the collar which would be cruel, and not the collar itself.

Well Denis I also find some things strange especially when different states seem to mention different things, this may cause some confusion when utilising internet superhighways between states, well I'm tending to prefer to avoid confusion by reading what my state mentions. The chap in Tweed Heads maybe got confused between authorities and what applies in different states and what was advertised in NSW newspapers where just maybe NSW "things" were not mentioned in the advertisments, and maybe a good example that it's maybe best to find out and know what applies in ones own state meanwhile trying to avoid listening to what applies in other states.

In Victoria where I am there appears to be some sort of restriction or requirement on electronic dog training collars that can impart an electric shock on a dog, where the RSPCA or some other authority may want to have a chat with the user of such a collar on a dog to see if the below is being complied with, and if everything is then everything maybe OK, but if not then there seems to be the mention of "Penalty: 5 penalty units".

Also, as you mentioned "erotic toys" sorry but I really don't know about "erotic toys", but I have heard something in Victoria that various electronic stimulation devices are certainly used in the medical fields on humans, this by persons such as Physiotherapists who have had appropriate training and under their guidance others can use those devices at home, I feel something similar might also apply in the veterinary field. If anyone knows anything about this in Victoria then I'd love to hear some more, and I feel those in other states might like to hear more on what applies in their state.

Anyway Denis, in regards to the collars mentioned below maybe someone can explain better than I can on what applies to those in Victoria, and the below from this address:-

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/con...997469/s7e.html

Victorian Consolidated Regulations

PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS REGULATIONS 1997 - SECT 7E

7E. Use of certain electronic collars prohibited

(1) A person must not use an electronic dog training collar that can impart an electric shock on a dog or any other animal except in the circumstances in sub-regulation (2).

Penalty: 5 penalty units.

(2) Sub-regulation (1) does not apply to a person who uses an electronic dog training collar on a dog-

(a) if a veterinary practitioner has examined the physical health and temperament of the dog and reasonably believes that the dog is suitable to have an electronic dog training collar used on it; and

(b) the person is-

(i) a veterinary practitioner; or

(ii) acting on the instructions of a veterinary practitioner; or

(iii) a qualified dog trainer (within the meaning of regulation 13(2) of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Regulations 19961); or

(iv) acting under the supervision of a qualified dog trainer (within the meaning of regulation 13(2) of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Regulations 1996).

As to what is a qualified dog trainer to the above in Victoria I feel this might explain so if your interested have a read of what's at this address:-

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/con...996403/s13.html

Also I feel that if anyone wanted to import into Australia such collars as mentioned above I feel they would have to comply with the following that is on this webpage from this address and a copy below:-

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4369#e1051

prohibited and restricted imports

The Australian Government controls the import of certain goods into Australia. The controls either take the form of:

# an absolute prohibition, which means that you are not allowed to import the goods in any circumstances, or

# a restriction, where you need to have written permission in order to import the goods.

The following information broadly outlines what goods are prohibited or restricted, where you can obtain more information about the control and, in the case of restricted goods, the mailing address or e-mail address to use to apply for permission to import.

The Customs Information and Support Centre (CISC) can provide general information about Customs procedures in relation to prohibited and restricted goods. You can contact the CISC by telephone on 1300 363 263 or by e-mail at [email protected].

The information about prohibited and restricted goods provided on this website is a guide only. Customs recommends that you exercise care with its use. Customs further recommends that you seek more detailed information to ensure that you will comply with legislative requirements before attempting to import restricted goods.

Dog collars - electronic and protrusion (restricted import)

Description:

Dog collars designed to cause an electric shock, or dog collars designed to puncture or bruise an animal's skin.

Permits issued by:

Minister for Justice and Customs

More information:

Customs Information and Support Centre

Telephone: 1300 363 263

E-mail: [email protected]

Address:

Requests to import these goods should be addressed to:

National Manager

Cargo Branch

Australian Customs Service

5 Constitution Avenue

CANBERRA CITY ACT 2600

E-mail: [email protected]

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Eddy, I would like to know, do you have a problem with the collars because they are restricted by law or do you keep mentioning that to support your dislike for the collars.

[Winterpaws]

Hi Eddy

Here's a scenario -

I have a dog who has some mild fear issues. She freaks out at the dogs next door barking all the time and this sets her off. As do the foxes killing ducks and scavaging for food. So she pretty much barks constantly all the time. I work full time cannot take time off as I am employed on a special project. Now the neighbour is complaining and threatening council and legal action so we are in dire straits

So here is my question to you - how do I fix it? I figured that you seem to be such an expert in fixing barking and behavioural problems without the use of any sort of correction advice so I would be really interested to hear what you have to say........

[KitKat]

If i wanted to cause my dog/s 'pain' or 'torture' them...there are quicker and much cheaper ways of doing so. I'd certainly not be paying several hundred dollars to do so. I paid that much to contain my dog and keep him safe...and to keep him in general.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: at the end of the day, people need a solution to their problem, not a persons political stance.

That, quite simply is why e collars are still sold by the thousands.

[KitKat]

That, quite simply is why e collars are still sold by the thousands.

And all i can say is thank goodness for them being available :rolleyes:

[EddyAnne]

Hi Eddy

Here's a scenario -

I have a dog who has some mild fear issues. She freaks out at the dogs next door barking all the time and this sets her off. As do the foxes killing ducks and scavaging for food. So she pretty much barks constantly all the time. I work full time cannot take time off as I am employed on a special project. Now the neighbour is complaining and threatening council and legal action so we are in dire straits

G'day, Eddy here.

Well slowone I feel I might be able to think of a few suggestions, here is one. Some dog owners certainly do work 40 hour a week, and during this time their dog maybe exposed to situations that might cause the dog to react to those situations. Well some dog owners do change the situation where their dog stays at a friends or relatives home where they can be looked after, similarly as what occurs with parents who work and who have children. Anyway, due to demand these are popping up around Australia, and if there is not one in your area and there is a demand by others then maybe consider this as a business opportunity for yourself or for someone else, and the below from this address:-

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/commo...%5E2682,00.html

The Advertiser

17 April 2005

Now it's time for doggy daycare

LIKE most daycare centres, there's lots of playing with toys, getting messy in the sandpit and running around – except these "children" are dogs!

Pampered pooches craving exercise and companionship are having their needs catered for at what is believed to be SA's first day care centre for dogs.

The Holdfast Dog Centre, on a former bowling green at Hove, accommodates up to 20 dogs a day in a fenced 1700sq m area.

The latest craze in the US, the facility is the canine version of a childcare centre where dogs are looked after between 8am-6pm when their "parents" are at work.

The growing number of owners who don't have time to look after their pets is the main reason the Holdfast Bay Dog Owners Association opened the centre with the help of Holdfast Bay Council.

"There are some with separation anxiety issues, most with owners who work full-time, as well as single people who don't work anymore but don't want to leave their dogs home while they go shopping or to appointments," says association senior trainer Karen Molloy.

"These days everyone works so hard and when they get home late they may not feel like taking the dog for a run or a walk.

"The dogs are so absolutely exhausted after a day that they just flop into bed when they get home . . . they couldn't handle five days a week."

One regular client visits from as far as Kangaroo Island during their owners' shopping sprees, while Lulu, a 19-month-old groodle (golden retriever and poodle cross) has been travelling from Aldgate twice a week for a year.

Lulu's "mum", Clare Michell, who works at Flinders Medical Centre, said her pet was like a family member and she didn't want to leave her home alone.

"My partner and I both work full-time and I didn't like her being left alone for extended periods of time," she said.

"She used to chew the irrigation and dig holes when she was bored, but she doesn't do that now."

The day is split up into organised activities including a "cat nap" indoors in airconditioned comfort, ball games and even massages.

Naughty dogs are separated for a 10-minute "time out" but all are vetted before they can join up, with staff gauging their behaviour in the group for half an hour.

Behavioural problems stemming from small backyards, apartment living and time-poor lifestyles are the focus of forums being organised by the Local Government Association and Dog and Cat Management Board.

Ideas include councils setting up a database of people who can walk pets and more daycare centres. But Australian Veterinary Association SA division spokeswoman Dr Jenny Weston said owners needed to train their dogs from the time they were puppies to be happy alone.

"I have a number of dogs on drugs for medication for separation anxiety," she said.

"There are horror stories of people coming home to find ripped walls and doors, it can be really devastating.'

[KitKat]

I'd have to take a second job to pay for my two dogs to be in doggy daycare...then i'd be spending even less time with them and they'd have to be in care for longer :S

Mind you i'd not put my dogs into daycare for a number of reasons which i have discussed in other threads.

Mind you any thieves would be happy...they'd have free and quiet access to my house during the daytime. How nice :rolleyes:

[MonElite]

various electronic stimulation devices are certainly used in the medical fields on humans, this by persons such as Physiotherapists who have had appropriate training and under their guidance others can use those devices at home, I feel something similar might also apply in the veterinary field.

I am qualified physio, but have not been praciticing for years.

Any equipement that is made for muscle or nerve stimulation in physiotherapy is designed in a way that even if put on the highest level by an accident will not cause damage. Yes it can cause discomfort and potentially some pain.

I stress - if used CORRECTLY none of the physio equipement would cause pain or any discomfort.

I imagine that any electronic equipement designed for use with dogs would do the same. So CORRECT use of any electoronic collar will not be causing discomfort to the dog.

Edited May 24, 2005 by myszka

[MonElite]

I can think of dozens reasons why I would NOT send my dog to doggy daycare.

One would be that he is a fairly dog agressive entire doberman male and most likely would not be accepted into the care.

BTW thankfully he doesnt constantly bark and I dont have to get an anit bark collar or think of a doggy sitter for him...

[pgm]

"I have a number of dogs on drugs for medication for separation anxiety," she said.

Well, one thing is for certain, I won't be taking my dog anywhere near that vet.

Do you know that in Australia there are approx 500,000 children on anti-depressents and amphetamines for what are essentially behavioral problems?

Behaviorists are probably the worse thing that ever happened to children - no doubt they will prove to be the worse thing to happen to dogs as well given time.

[poodlefan]

I certainly wouldn't be taking a dog with fear issues to "day care" :rolleyes:

[Denis Carthy]

EddyAnne

and keep in mind that Mr & Mrs Holliday of ("Orion" & "Innotek") had to pay Dr Wirth a total of $30,000

Denis

Hi Eddy, yes I did know about that, Innotek publicaly called Wirth a liar for some of the things he said and the word ‘liar’ constituted a liable, which is why Innotek were ordered to pay the $30,000.

Eddy quoted (I think quoted)

Description:

Dog collars designed to cause an electric shock, or dog collars designed to puncture or bruise an animal's skin.

Denis

If the word electric shock is written into the law then it’s unlikely the law would hold up as legal if someone appealed a case and a law with that wording would probably have to be repealed.

‘Electric Shock’ is a technical scientific term and is clearly defined in whatever medical dictionary definition is recognised by your government health dept –

- it MUST penetrate the body and cause defined physiological reactions

- an e-stim cannot penetrate the body neither can the hundreds of other surface e-stim devices available for different uses.

- As an example of the term legally defined and recognised;

The scientific definition would be used in court cases where someone might be claiming compensation for damages due to ‘electric shock’ they would have to provide medical evidence that what had cause the damage was an electric actual shock, static pulse collars cannot penetrate the body.

KitKat

If i wanted to cause my dog/s 'pain' or 'torture' them...there are quicker and much cheaper ways of doing so.

Denis

Yes but don’t forget how much money your RSPCA is (or was) bringing in to pay Wirths and others salary by making their absurd claims. It needs to be remembered that these cranks and extremists feed and make money from the vulnerable from spewing their vomit and spreading their own ignorance like a disease, they would get no income at al if they told the truth about e-collars.

If anyone really wants to cause pain, distress injury, a general bloodbath and both short and long term psychological problems then why not buy a Haltie head cage, probably available from your RSPCA

Haltie head cages.

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/bo...eplyPost#492194

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/37442.html

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/bo...ow.pl?tid=61921

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/bo...eplyPost#480695

Edited May 24, 2005 by Denis Carthy

[Denis Carthy]

If anyone wants to use any of the article below, for non-commercial purposes, they can providing they give a credit.

*1. E-collar Static Stimulation Development

Part 2. Static Stimulation in Perspective.

Although this paper is dedicated to remote electronic training collars I feel it is appropriate to clarify what static stimulation is and place it in its wider context and perspective of uses. It is erroneous to think of it as specific to e-training collars and thoughts of electricity being involved should be put aside because of the historical and normal connotations to electrical sensation.

In the case of any external devices deliberately designed to cause a sensation a specific number of electrical waves pass between the contact points bouncing off the surface of the skin, say for instance 1000 waves per second. It is the number of bounces on the skin surface per sec which is usually known as ‘the intensity’. If the speed of the waves bouncing along the skin surface was slowed down to 500 bounces per sec the sensation would decrease, speed up to 2000 waves and the sensation would increase in ‘intensity’.

If 1000 bounces per sec reached an accumulated point of discomfort whereby it distracted someone from ‘doing’ something after 6 sec and the discomfort ceased at the point the behaviour changed then the cessation of the behavioural action would reinforce or reward the pleasant relief behaviour and strengthened it.

As I have stated the working functionality of a modern e - training collar is based on the accumulation of a static stimulus sensation which is not dependant on one element making up the sensation ( i.e. intensity ) it is based on two elements. If you start to scratch your arm at a level which is uncomfortable but not an immediate overwhelming intensity and continue at that level you will soon find it becomes uncomfortable to a point that you discontinue the behaviour = discomfort + length of time = change in behaviour, i.e stopped the action of scratching.

Even with an intellect a billion, billion universes beyond that of a dog humans learn and benefit by sensation very early on. We learn ‘not’ to hold our hands to close the fire for to long ‘intensity + duration’, we learn ‘not’ to wait to long after the hunger pain sensation starts and eat for pleasant relief, dogs learn to avoid the unpleasant sensation of direct sun and keep to the shade after a short exposure to direct sun, ‘intensity + duration, positively reinforcing low degrees of activity. Most dogs are more active on cold days, as the increase in activity from less activity the discomfort of feeling cold decreases, positively reinforcing increased degrees of activity on cold days. All these are negative reinforcement actions and are positively reinforced by strengthening behaviour which is rewarding.

Static stimulation has been in use and development for a vast variety of purposes for many years, at least since the 1950’s, long before e-collars became training collar category collars in 1998.

The main reasons e-collars remained behind other developed uses of variable level static stimulation instruments was its use on a moving object, very often under adverse environmental conditions, at long range and with the ability to be perpetually adjusted to the sensory widening and narrowing which occurs with drive activity levels. If analogue technology was still in existence e-collars would have remained as limited use collars.

Acupuncture pens are a product which give a sensation as a by-product of their design purpose but some children’s toys are deliberately designed to give a sensation of entertainment value, static bands are available which can be placed around wounds and aid healing, variable intensity static stimulation arm bands are available to displace concentration for people suffering some kind of pain in another part of the body.

Static stimulation devices designed to eliminate parasites and the conditions caused by them in humans and animals, micro current electrical stimulators for sore muscles, CES for relaxation, anxiety, meditation, and other benefits, massage devices.

On Channel 4 London region w/e July 7th 2004 an hour long late night program was dedicated to variable level static stimulation erotic M/F sex toys with optional combined vibration. The static sensation is exactly the same as e-collars, needless to say, the body areas had different biological purposes and responded to the sensation appropriately.

.

*2

Abstract

-In a clinical trial using electrical stimulation for healing wounds, forty-four dogs of different breeds and ages were treated. Lesions were graded into three categories according to severity. They were treated by electrical stimulation with supportive therapy given only if an underlying disease was present. These wounds, previously treated conventionally without success, showed marked improvement. Only 3 (6.8%) patients had an outcome graded poor, 4 (9.1%) were graded fair, and 37 (84.1%) did excellently. A positive correlation (r = 0.9 was found between severity of lesion and number of treatments needed. Most patients with an underlying condition had a poor to fair outcome. Although no explanation as to the mechanism of action of this treatment is advanced, this trial suggests that electrical stimulation is highly effective in promoting wound healing. -

The fact that static stimulation is a sensation and the actual idea that in such a technologically advanced society we have not technologically progressed beyond being able to use electrical sensation beyond an elementary electric shock is absurd.

Such claims from groups or individuals are untrue and should either be dismissed or put in the context of such groups who opposed Darwin, when the first photographs were produced similar groups wanted photography banned because “Only God can make man in his own image”.

In the 40,000 + years of the existence of the species dog there has always been one persistent problem, ‘distance control and training’. More dogs have suffered abuse due to frustration or revolving door rescues because of this than any other single reason. In the UK the e-training collar is giving dogs more freedom and stress free relationships in this past two or three years than at any time in the history of the species and they are the easiest to use addition to training aids of every kind.

The modern static stimulation e-training collar has taken the dog out of the dark ages of needing to be on the lead because it is out of control and given it the freedom within safety which is a requirement of the species if it is to live a quality life with stress free owners in a lifelong relationship which comes about by owning a well behaved dog.

The only suffering caused by e-training collars is to those who have commercially exploited pet owners in recent years by convincing them their dog has some kind of quasi medical condition which needs a lifetime of expensive ‘behavioural treatment’, when it refuses recall, raids picnics, runs at strange children barking at them or general, normal, uncontrolled, disruptive canine behaviour.

Additional e-collar info.

Electric shock and static shock collars, what they were and when they were.

http://p199.ezboard.com/fletstalkbreedingf...opicID=14.topic

*************************************

Below is a x section of the many thousands of Electro pulse products in common or increasing use.

http://www.bodyclock.net/

http://www.stockroom.com/electric.htm

http://www.medicaledu.com/estim.htm

http://electrosex.nl/index.php?cPath=70

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/14/...ain296526.shtml

http://www.kiiko.com/pachi.html

www.dogtra.com

http://www.medicaledu.com/estim.htm

http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/deepbrain2/intros.htm

http://www.pallidotomy.com/deep_brain_stimulation.html

http://feswww.fes.cwru.edu/

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/cpr/research.htm...l%20Stimulation

http://www.lcsupply.com/store/flashcart.cf...=2073&hash=1996

http://www.sexshop365.co.uk/catalog/default.php?cPath=65_192

http://www.wireheading.com/brainstim/

http://www.erosboutique.org/store/merchant...tro_Stimulation

http://apu.sfn.org/content/Publications/Br...timulation.html

*****************************************

Ref *1.

Denis Carthy, Remote Electronic Training Collars. Ch 5, part 2, P10.

Fifty years of UK history, from electric shock to a sensation Second Edition 2004.

*2.

USE OF ELECTRICAL STIMULATION FOR WOUND HEALING IN DOGS

Vol. 57 (2) 2002

H. Sumano, G. Goiz and V. Clifford

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, School of Veterinary Medicine, National Autonomous University of Mexico, Mexico City, 04510. Mexico.

Edited June 26, 2005 by Denis Carthy

[Kavik]

My one 'problem dog' who can be a barker is dog aggro and would not be accepted into a doggy daycare. I even stress when I have to board her because at some boarding places and vets that board don't always know how to deal with it and I am worried they would make it worse. Luckily for me, Diesel's breeder has no problem with me dropping off the dogs at any time, even though Zoe is not one of theirs.

[Winterpaws]

Eddy

Sorry that is not going to work. Our dog was a foster dog that we took on. She is fear agressive and doesn;t cope well around other dogs or with changed environments so doggy day care is not an option for us nor do I have any friends or family close enough to look after her

Back to the square one......

[Muttlover]

To V.A.H.

Don't go knocking the RSPCA, they do a damn good job! Tail docking is barbaric and there is a huge amount of vetenary evidence proving this. It is only some breeders who believe it is okay to mutilate a puppy for some old fashioned breed standard that was created when people still cut off dogs ears and thought it looked good. Docked tails look awful. I don't wish to make enemies, but I abhor tail docking and will speak out about it when the need arises. I also suppport the work of the RSPCA.

And now for my response to this actual topic:

As for the actual topic of bark collars, I wouldn't use a shock collar cause I can't believe it is humane. Although I have one very noisy dog and have contemplated using one of those sound collars as a last resort, although it hasn't come to that.

I also wonder if the council is going to be more lenient on dogs that bark and are complained to by some anti-dog resident?

[KitKat]

:sighs:

[Denis Carthy]

Muttlover

As for the actual topic of bark collars, I wouldn't use a shock collar cause I can't believe it is inhumane.

Denis

Your comments are worth a reply if for no other reason than people who are reading this and might have a barking OR training problem and have no idea;

(a) what these collars are

(b) have ever seen one.

( c ) know how they work

The reason I ask what you mean by your term “shock collar” is to establish if you are talking about a surprise, specifically to anti-bark collars or do you mean something else by usage of the word shock?

Please clarify because people could easily be mislead by inappropriate and misleading terminology, if they are mislead by inaccurate, inappropriate and misleading terminology they may not try find out facts which could benefit the welfare of their own dog.

Muttlover

Although I have one very noisy dog and have contemplated using one of those sound collars as a last resort, although it hasn't come to that.

Denis

Based on the above you clearly have never gone into ultra sound collars. There has been no safety tests on them in terms of damaging the dogs eardrums and they work specifically from pain. My use of the word ‘work’ is misleading, they have a very low rate of success and very few retailers in the US stock them any more and almost no in the UK.

You have not taken account of the fact that if a noise, which is loud to any animal, it makes the animal temporarily less able to detect sounds at the frequencies it normally can hear sounds, because of the lingering buzzing it still experiences.

The sound itself has gone and the buzzing is from brain cells, this can only mean that tissue is physiologically affected by the sound frequency at some level, but, as I said no safety tests have been done on them and they do not sell very well because they have a poor rate of success.

Muttlover

I also wonder if the council is going to be more lenient on dogs that bark and are complained to by some anti-dog resident?

Denis

Anti-dog residents are made not born. Only a tiny minority of people own dogs and if they cause a nuisance they are a social nuisance, once 'anything' gets a reputation for being a nuisance it sticks and is passed to the ‘thing’ in general, in this case all dogs.

Humans whether anti dog or not have a priority in society over all animals and people who might have one dog which upsets the neighbourhood, have an obligation to stop that dog manufacturing an ‘anti-dog’ populace-one nuisance dog can make trouble for every dog around and complaints make councils less lenient of dogs not more lenient.

Muttlover

I also support the work of the RSPCA.

Denis

I would be interested to hear why you support the false stories they made up about e-collars-especially the photograph. People who support false stories, of any kind, do not support the truth.

Edited May 26, 2005 by Denis Carthy