Vets Report Increase In Disease Amongst Brachycephalic Dogs

[dog_fan]

Jed I respectfully disagree with your comments. Many of the breeders I have seen are considered top breeders with show winning dogs. Unfortunately many show breeders are still breeding dogs to win in the ring, ignoring health concerns, despite what claiming otherwise.

Yes the fashion of the moment that will win seems to be the driver for some breeders who show their dogs.

I think the quest to get a ribbon has a lot to answer for when it comes to dogs health and conformation.

Which I think means that the people who judge the dog shows need to go back to basics and maybe a less extreme interpretation of the breed standard.

Edited April 6, 2016 by dog_fan

[Dame Aussie]

As a vet nurse, I completely agree with the article. I am sick of seeing dogs that can't breathe properly without airway and/or nostril surgery, or eyes so bulgy they require eye surgery to prevent constant damage and permanent scarring.

Just last week I saw a 2yo Frenchie die from respiratory distress. Owners rushed it into emergency after finding it collapsed. It was a warm day but certainly not hot. Hadn't been exercised or anything. It was a pedigree dog.

I would say at least 50% of our brachy patients are pedigrees and over 90% have severe respiratory issues. Watching them breathe with an ET tube in is heart breaking - it's like they are finally getting enough oxygen and then you have to take it out and they go back to struggling.

I am all for pedigree dogs but I am sick of seeing breeders excuse serious health problems as 'part of the breed'. When a dog's well being is severely compromised, that is not ok. And until breeders wake up and change their ways, stuff like this will keep being published. This article was not written by hard core animal rights activists, it was written by vets and researchers. They have nothing to gain by publishing this article, there is no ulterior motive.

Well said. There is a massive cruelty in the way many of these dogs are currently bred, and it is pedigree dogs that are the problem just as much as backyard dogs.

Yeah sad to say I agree. After nursing and then working in shelters, just as many of the dogs coming in with these issues are pedigree dogs. I know of one that was a pedigree just randomly dying on a warm day.

[moosmum]

So just based on the general reaction to the news story even here on a purebred dog forum looks like they are going to have an easy job of BSL for welfare reasons doesn't it? Step by step following the plan.

Well, yeah.

But its no conscious plan.

Its an acceptance of negative rather than positive value systems.

Not looking to how we can ADD value for a friendlier environment, but finding fault in the environment instead, and rejecting it.

We can all feel so moraly superior that way. Whoopeee! Who wouldn't jump at that chance? (till its their turn)

Edited April 6, 2016 by moosmum

[*kirty*]

Well I'm sorry but if a dog is physically unsound, it shouldn't be bred! And if breeders can't figure out a way to make sure their breed IS physically sound then maybe they shouldn't be breeding.

Scottish Fold cats were a great example - the genetics that caused the folded ears also caused severe arthritis, birth deformities, spinal problems, etc. I don't care how cute they are, if you can't breed a sound specimen then that breed needs to go. It was physically impossible to breed sound Scottish Folds so people stopped breeding them. Dog breeders should take heed - we now know just what issues go along with squashed faces, cork screw tails, bulgy eyes, etc etc. Now is the time to fix it before the decisions are made for you.

[*kirty*]

And it has nothing to do with feeling superior or anything else. I am not a hard core animal rights activist - I am an experienced vet nurse who has seen first hand the suffering that goes on in some breeds. And you can blame BYB all you like, but it is just as common (if not more) with the pedigree dogs.

[*kirty*]

'Normal' dog skull:

British Bulldog skull:

Full body x-ray of a Pekingese:

Edited April 6, 2016 by *kirty*

[Steve]

So just based on the general reaction to the news story even here on a purebred dog forum looks like they are going to have an easy job of BSL for welfare reasons doesn't it? Step by step following the plan.

Well, yeah.

But its no conscious plan.

Its an acceptance of negative rather than positive value systems.

Not looking to how we can ADD value for a friendlier environment, but finding fault in the environment instead, and rejecting it.

We can all feel so moraly superior that way. Whoopeee! Who wouldn't jump at that chance? (till its their turn)

I promise you it is not only a conscious plan by those working it and has been strategically thought out and pulling together to reach their goal. This will eventually see radical legislation to stop it.

Educate the public lessen the demand so when you do implement legislation there is barely a whimper.

No one can say there hasn't been enough warning given and if the only defence is that its someone else that is a road to disaster.

Feeling morally superior might motivate some and there are some nutters who will take it on as a war but as a society we no longer tolerate cruelty and those among us who simply dont want to see dogs suffer due to the selection of their parents will push for a positive outcome even if that means the breed's extinction.

[Steve]

Well I'm sorry but if a dog is physically unsound, it shouldn't be bred! And if breeders can't figure out a way to make sure their breed IS physically sound then maybe they shouldn't be breeding.

Scottish Fold cats were a great example - the genetics that caused the folded ears also caused severe arthritis, birth deformities, spinal problems, etc. I don't care how cute they are, if you can't breed a sound specimen then that breed needs to go. It was physically impossible to breed sound Scottish Folds so people stopped breeding them. Dog breeders should take heed - we now know just what issues go along with squashed faces, cork screw tails, bulgy eyes, etc etc. Now is the time to fix it before the decisions are made for you.

I think you will find it didnt stop them - right now there are scottish fold kittens advertised for sale from Braybrook Victoria on gumtree. This is the only state where they should be getting 20,000 dollar fines for doing so and that hasn't stopped them even enough to hide the sale of them.Out in the open on gumtree -how many years after it was outlawed????

Everywhere else in the world Scottish Fold cats are all systems a go.

They wont fix it they will ask for exemptions and talk up what they have done to date to try to fix it - because you silly thing its not them that are doing it - its only BYB and puppy farmers.

[Steve]

And it has nothing to do with feeling superior or anything else. I am not a hard core animal rights activist - I am an experienced vet nurse who has seen first hand the suffering that goes on in some breeds. And you can blame BYB all you like, but it is just as common (if not more) with the pedigree dogs.

Yep my feelings on it have nothing to do with feeling or wanting to be seen to be superior either . Its about nothing else but what is best for dogs and if someone can show me how what has occurred to date is what is best for dogs or that they actually have a plan to fix it and pretty quickly Im all ears.

[Christina]

Jed I respectfully disagree with your comments. Many of the breeders I have seen are considered top breeders with show winning dogs. Unfortunately many show breeders are still breeding dogs to win in the ring, ignoring health concerns, despite what claiming otherwise.

Yes the fashion of the moment that will win seems to be the driver for some breeders who show their dogs.

I think the quest to get a ribbon has a lot to answer for when it comes to dogs health and conformation.

Which I think means that the people who judge the dog shows need to go back to basics and maybe a less extreme interpretation of the breed standard.

The last sentence is so accurate.

The changes in dogs, cats & any other pet animal is man made & fashion & trends make them desirable.

Why anyone would want a dog that has a face so flat it cannot breathe properly I have no idea. Maybe people do not even think about this when they get a dog. They don't think about lots of things when they decide to get a dog & many want as easy, not time consuming & not demanding as possible.

Many dogs & cats are now bred to extreme altered standards which are not an improvement on the breed. I breed cats too & the changes in the Siamese I breed are very pronounced & far away from the apple headed sturdy cat of my childhood, although not unhealthy I have to say. The persians & exotic don't even have a nose on their face anymore & look as though they have splatted into a brick wall face on. How they can breathe I don't know & its not an appealing look to me. Persians used to be such pretty face cats.

The judges or whatever committee makes these decisions to alter the breed standard need to start reviewing it & go backwards to a degree then the public & even back yard breeders will follow the trend.

[Dame Aussie]

And it has nothing to do with feeling superior or anything else. I am not a hard core animal rights activist - I am an experienced vet nurse who has seen first hand the suffering that goes on in some breeds. And you can blame BYB all you like, but it is just as common (if not more) with the pedigree dogs.

Yep my feelings on it have nothing to do with feeling or wanting to be seen to be superior either . Its about nothing else but what is best for dogs and if someone can show me how what has occurred to date is what is best for dogs or that they actually have a plan to fix it and pretty quickly Im all ears.

Exactly

[moosmum]

And it has nothing to do with feeling superior or anything else. I am not a hard core animal rights activist - I am an experienced vet nurse who has seen first hand the suffering that goes on in some breeds. And you can blame BYB all you like, but it is just as common (if not more) with the pedigree dogs.

I also have been a vet nurse who has seen the suffering 1st hand. I have not said its acceptable by any means and agree an animal should never be bred to suffer. Far too many do.

There is absolutely no way I could blame BYBers for this..... These deformities have clearly been selected over many generations over healthier alternatives.

Those calling for BSL to tackle this problem are left with little other choice. I have been saying for some time BSL was a logical result of current K.C rules of constitution. The problem as I see it is that it is not going to end there and instead of fixing problems we are left with little choice but to legislate against their possibility.

BECAUSE they are forced to operate under a negative values system and teach the same. As do many, many other accepted Orgs. society works with or under.

Breeders like Jed who genuinely care and strive to breed for health 1st, and could have much to teach are lost. So we have removed a great deal of value from the environment of domestic dogs when this move takes its course. Shrunk the environment able to hold and value dogs.

I wait with baited breath to see if the GSD breeders learn before its their turn. Who else does it wrong? Ah yes Greyhound breeders! Then theres Dachies. Shar Pei. Hmmm. Puppy farmers.

In the end, no one can be trusted to do the right thing. If we out law the keeping of dogs, no welfare problem at all.

If you can't teach and practice value adding yet need change, you are left with no alternative but value removal.

The culture enshrined in the K.Cs rules means real and LASTING change is nearly impossible to implement. And some very good breeders are victims of that culture more than they are of this legislation.There is a choice to change that culture. Not much chance of affecting the legislation with out doing that 1st.

Steve, this move against Brachy breeders may be planned but is only a small part of a process that has been underway since the inception of the K.Cs and the blue print inadvertently set out for the species.

Theres a lot more to come that hasn't hasn't even been a stray thought yet.

Edited April 7, 2016 by moosmum

[dog_fan]

In some ways I think some of those breeds which are bred by BYB's may even be healthier than those bred for the show ring.

If I think of the focus of the two groups, one group breeds to a conformation standard that their dogs will be judged against (and a winning dog is what the judge wants to see) vs a group of breeders where it doesn't really matter if the dog has a longer snout or a less round head.

[*kirty*]

And it has nothing to do with feeling superior or anything else. I am not a hard core animal rights activist - I am an experienced vet nurse who has seen first hand the suffering that goes on in some breeds. And you can blame BYB all you like, but it is just as common (if not more) with the pedigree dogs.

Yep my feelings on it have nothing to do with feeling or wanting to be seen to be superior either . Its about nothing else but what is best for dogs and if someone can show me how what has occurred to date is what is best for dogs or that they actually have a plan to fix it and pretty quickly Im all ears.

But that is just it! The breeders of these breeds have sat back and covered their ears and cried that their dogs are healthy for years. These issues have been festering for a long time and now that the public is starting to realise the truth, the breeders want to start blaming animal rights nuts. They have had time to address these issues before the shit hits the fan, but they chose not to. It's now or never. Soon enough the issue will be taken out of their hands.

[Steve]

And it has nothing to do with feeling superior or anything else. I am not a hard core animal rights activist - I am an experienced vet nurse who has seen first hand the suffering that goes on in some breeds. And you can blame BYB all you like, but it is just as common (if not more) with the pedigree dogs.

Yep my feelings on it have nothing to do with feeling or wanting to be seen to be superior either . Its about nothing else but what is best for dogs and if someone can show me how what has occurred to date is what is best for dogs or that they actually have a plan to fix it and pretty quickly Im all ears.

But that is just it! The breeders of these breeds have sat back and covered their ears and cried that their dogs are healthy for years. These issues have been festering for a long time and now that the public is starting to realise the truth, the breeders want to start blaming animal rights nuts. They have had time to address these issues before the shit hits the fan, but they chose not to. It's now or never. Soon enough the issue will be taken out of their hands.

Well sort of except they have acknowledged there is a problem and say they have addressed it. Breed standards have been tweaked and their rules and regs have been altered to include requirements for consideration of health issues. Judges have been briefed on not judging dogs with extremes to be winners etc.

But its really about the culture and you see it here all the time. If someone decided to try to breed dogs with a slightly longer snout you would get a whole bunch beating them up because they are breeding sub quality dogs and because of that must only be breeding for money etc.

There are several strategies which could be used to reasonably, quickly ease the suffering and not see entire breeds become extinct but the chances of that happening are about when pigs will fly because of the pile of things and the breed politics needed to make it happen.

[Rebanne]

Who else does it wrong? Ah yes Greyhound breeders!

What am I doing wrong?

[moosmum]

Who else does it wrong? Ah yes Greyhound breeders!

What am I doing wrong?

Rebanne,

I Don't say you are doing any thing wrong. I don't know that you are and chances are, absolutely nothing. Ditto with the other mentions. No doubt some are. Its human nature that we are an imperfect lot. There are welfare issues associated with the breeds that are increasingly becoming a focus.

That will continue while people prefer to identify with a distinct group that draws a line between itself and the communities that hold them.

Promoting the idea of distinct and separate values ensures those values can't be shared coopperatively - and in a shared environment thats an essential outcome to avoid rejection.

[Rebanne]

Who else does it wrong? Ah yes Greyhound breeders!

What am I doing wrong?

Rebanne,

I Don't say you are doing any thing wrong. I don't know that you are and chances are, absolutely nothing. Ditto with the other mentions. No doubt some are. Its human nature that we are an imperfect lot. There are welfare issues associated with the breeds that are increasingly becoming a focus.

That will continue while people prefer to identify with a distinct group that draws a line between itself and the communities that hold them.

Promoting the idea of distinct and separate values ensures those values can't be shared coopperatively - and in a shared environment thats an essential outcome to avoid rejection.

I am a Greyhound breeder and first you say Greyhound breeders are doing it wrong then you say that's not what you are saying. Make up your mind. Don't issue blanket statements.

[melzawelza]

In some ways I think some of those breeds which are bred by BYB's may even be healthier than those bred for the show ring.

If I think of the focus of the two groups, one group breeds to a conformation standard that their dogs will be judged against (and a winning dog is what the judge wants to see) vs a group of breeders where it doesn't really matter if the dog has a longer snout or a less round head.

It's a shame to say it but the Pug X dogs do not suffer the same horrendous brachy-headed issues that many of the purebred pugs do.

I love pugs, they're such fun, funky little dogs. And it breaks my heart when I see them living compromised, difficult lives because they simply cannot breathe properly.

[*kirty*]

In some ways I think some of those breeds which are bred by BYB's may even be healthier than those bred for the show ring.

If I think of the focus of the two groups, one group breeds to a conformation standard that their dogs will be judged against (and a winning dog is what the judge wants to see) vs a group of breeders where it doesn't really matter if the dog has a longer snout or a less round head.

It's a shame to say it but the Pug X dogs do not suffer the same horrendous brachy-headed issues that many of the purebred pugs do.

I love pugs, they're such fun, funky little dogs. And it breaks my heart when I see them living compromised, difficult lives because they simply cannot breathe properly.

Not entirely true. SOME Pug crosses have better breathing and better eyes than purebreds, some are just as bad.