Wagga Pound Cruelty - Not For Easily Upset

[Dame Aussie]

We always had euthanised animals in bags in the freezer. Never have I seen an animal put into a freezer as is.

[keetamouse]

All this happened well over 12 months ago why has it taken so long to come out.

[Cody]

And I just read this on the SMH website:

http://m.smh.com.au/environment/animals/cats-found-in-freezer-at-wagga-wagga-city-council-animal-shelter-20160330-gnuqdn

" In a letter from the council, Ms Oakman was told that a ranger had been "severely bitten" by the kitten while removing it from its cage, adding: "Unfortunately in his attempt to free himself, the cat was accidentally knocked out and believed to be deceased and therefore placed in the freezer." "

I find that fairly unacceptable as well. The ranger's response to a bite from a kitten is to throw it around so badly it is knocked unconscious to the point of appearing dead and then rather than verifying it is dead (presumably it's heart was still beating!!) they just put it in the freezer not in a body bag??

That's my issue with the whole sad story too.

[_PL_]

I found the dog mentioned in the SMH article

As evidence, they point to the council's own shelter website which in August last year, featured a post that mocked a surrendered, disabled dog which was days away from being put down.

Beneath a banner that read: "Where are all you rescue groups and bleeding hearts now", a photo of the deformed animal was uploaded, alongside the words: "Lovely Kelpie needs someone with a special heart. Badly misshapen but that doesn't stop him. Available now."

[BarbedWire]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

[melzawelza]

All this happened well over 12 months ago why has it taken so long to come out.

Because these volunteers and witnesses have tried and tried to resolve it with council directly to avoid having to go public. Council doesn't care, hence going to the media. And good on them.

[_PL_]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

I understand daily frustrations and that pound work is really a thankless job but you need to have a heart and be transparent. Rescue nutters do ruin good relationships for everyone else. And there's been a few absolutely brilliant rangers through, I don't blame them for moving on.

Now; I'm speaking out of school.

Glenfield Road Animal Shelter has had rescuers and volunteers walking on eggshells for years. For as long as I can remember.

If they had a hissy over whatever minor infraction or just having a shit week, you would find them withholding PTS lists or refusing to allow volunteers in to see who was in there. Or just 'too busy' to load the photos up on Rescue Rex. Pretty much STFU or no dogs & cats get out and it's all your fault.

I'm in admiration of the rescuer who kept pushing on, getting lists out no matter how often things went bad.

Kudos to the women who stood up.

edit; Sars, I don't know the setup now but the pound page has a gallery insert (cincopa) which means images can be uploaded from anywhere like you do with photobucket or flickr.

The old setup they used was Rescue Rex - pre-FB, a hosted album a rescuer set up because councils still don't have obligatory pound pages.

There's hundreds of councils whose animals disappear unless a volunteer or staff member are allowed or required to use Rescue Rex or FB. Australia's pets just vanish into impound facilities, never to be seen again.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Powerlegs

[BarbedWire]

There is a petition about this pound on change.org. Here is the link

https://www.change.org/p/wagga-wagga-city-council-saviour-s-petition-improve-animal-welfare-at-wagga-wagga-pound-g-r-a-s

I have just signed.

Those volunteers are amazing women.

[BarbedWire]

Another article today.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/3833959/help-shelter-by-saving-a-pet-kendall/?cs=152

[The Spotted Devil]

Another article today.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/3833959/help-shelter-by-saving-a-pet-kendall/?cs=152

Thanks for posting sars.

Very simplistic solution that doesn't actually solve the problem - why not engage and educate the public, volunteers and staff for a start. There's so much good stuff that can be done!

My other concern is ranger training. I cannot envisage a scenario where a scared and cornered kitten capable of inflicting such a bite wasn't giving off warning signals. The whole incident could have been avoided with a better understanding of feline behaviour.

Edited April 6, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[Salukifan]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

Who are the "people like that"?

Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals.

It happens.

Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay.

It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press.

Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Simply Grand]

Another article today.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/3833959/help-shelter-by-saving-a-pet-kendall/?cs=152

Thanks for posting sars.

Very simplistic solution that doesn't actually solve the problem - why not engage and educate the public, volunteers and staff for a start. There's so much good stuff that can be done!

My other concern is ranger training. I cannot envisage a scenario where a scared and cornered kitten capable of inflicting such a bite wasn't giving off warning signals. The whole incident could have been avoided with a better understanding of feline behaviour.

Definitely, training regarding animal handling and behaviour, procedures that prevent inappropriately trained or prepared people from handling certain animals and I'd also suggest aptitude assessment.

When cats bite they bite hard, when they are distressed and scratch, they scratch hard. A tooth going through skin is not unusual in a cat bite and if a person's response to that is to throw a kitten around to the point of (as I said before) knocking it unconscious to the point of it appearing dead, then they should not be handling kittens/cats in a professional capacity.

Plus, there is an issue if any animal, whether euthanised, died of injury, died of illness or died of unknown causes is placed in a freezer without a verification that it is actually dead. It is quite apparent when an animal's heart, breathing, circulation and brain function have completely stopped and for checking that not to be a vital step in disposing of bodies is not acceptable.

I also still find it very strange that both the kittens discussed in this coverage were in the freezer not in a body bag.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Simply Grand

[_PL_]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

Who are the "people like that"?

Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals.

It happens.

Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay.

It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press.

Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare.

I'm the first to admit that the welfare activists make a mess.

And you're right, it happens and it happens everywhere. But there is a track record of difficulty within this pound and for some reason other councils whose staff are paid equally poorly and work under the same stressors manage to suck it up and get better outcomes for their animals. In some cases, volunteers are the only ones with any time to help the inmates and over-stretched staff welcome the help.

Any pound's volunteers are paid nothing and work hundreds of hours under their own amount of stress, it doesn't mean they are there to be whipping boys when staff are challenged over their actions.

I honestly can't see much changing. Council will make noise about sorting things out and it will all go back to normal.

[BarbedWire]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

Who are the "people like that"?

Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals.

Even if they are low paid it doesn't give them permission to chuck a kitten around. If they can't deal with people perhaps they should try a different line of employment.

It happens.

Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay.

Maybe sometimes, but why this time? What are your reasons for saying this?

It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press.

Of course there are always two sides, but as far as I am concerned there is not just the one incident here but several over many weeks and for me the icing on the cake was the post of the disabled dog. Not just an impulse post. It must have taken some time to write it.

Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare.

Sorry I don't believe in hell so that statement is meaningless.

I came to this thread knowing nothing and my first post was suggesting that a mistake had been made and the pound staff should not be condemned, but as I have found out more I have decided that the volunteers are people of integrity and I am coming down on their side. True I have not heard the other side other than the post about the disabled dog but for me that post speaks volumes about the poster/posters.

ETA the volunteers used to post here on DOL in the urgent rescue forum and I used to read their posts and they were always about concern for the animals especially for the cats which they tried to help week after week. I think from memory that Pound Rounds was also associated with this pound but I am not sure. That might explain some of the friction.

ETA again. I have just found this post from Just Andrea on a Past Rescues thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/262675-glenfield-rd-animal-shelter-wagga-wagga/page__st__30 #39

and I think it explains some of the conflict between this pound and volunteers.

Yes special thank you to all those people on the country pound pledges page who hassled the Rangers when they were asked not. This is the result. Anything on rescue Rex that is due tomorrow is likely on list. And anything that isn't up on rescue Rex that is due tomorrow we will never know. The list - that I have been getting every week for 8 years successfully and sharing with rescuers and working well with Rangers - was the only way to make sure none didn't slip through the cracks that didn't get up on Rex. So thank you for ruining a long standing relationship many of us have with this pound- for ones that will be put to sleep without even a chance. You know who you are. Well done - you will be responsible for god knows how many deaths we won't even know about.

Edited April 6, 2016 by sarspididious

[Simply Grand]

Yep, Sars and Powerlegs you're right. I've been there, done that earning absolute minimum legal wage to do a difficult job, along with my colleagues, as our full time income trying to keep a roof over our heads, and that doesn't make it ok to throw a kitten around or put an animal in a freezer without definitively confirming it is dead.

And yes, volunteers are absolutely invaluable when it comes to animal welfare. Yes I agree, and have stated before that sometimes some speak out without a full understanding of what they are seeing but, as I have also said before, if organizations cannot provide an honest answer they are comfortable with then something is wrong. And that isn't the fault of volunteers.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Simply Grand

[tdierikx]

What qualifications do Rangers and pound staff required to have nowadays?

I remember that in my Cert 2 Animal Studies course we were taught specifically to be able to check for signs of death in the First Aid subject... and it's actually not that bloody hard to do.

T.

[Dame Aussie]

I don't think theres any requirement for pound staff, other than inhouse type training, I think there should be. Not sure about rangers though some I worked with couldn't tell a Chihuahua from a Border Collie...seriously.

[keetamouse]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

Who are the "people like that"?

Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals.

It happens.

Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay.

It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press.

Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare.

I'm the first to admit that the welfare activists make a mess.

And you're right, it happens and it happens everywhere. But there is a track record of difficulty within this pound and for some reason other councils whose staff are paid equally poorly and work under the same stressors manage to suck it up and get better outcomes for their animals. In some cases, volunteers are the only ones with any time to help the inmates and over-stretched staff welcome the help.

Any pound's volunteers are paid nothing and work hundreds of hours under their own amount of stress, it doesn't mean they are there to be whipping boys when staff are challenged over their actions.

I honestly can't see much changing. Council will make noise about sorting things out and it will all go back to normal.

Things will change as they have different rangers and a General Manager who will make it work, I feel volunteers should still be able to help BUT they need to sign a confidentially document to stop this sort of thing happening again, also work with the rangers and management not against them it is all about the attitudes of all and for the animals as their top priority.

The issue happened well over 12 months ago and as Andrea said some volunteers go in like a bull at a gate and do get the staff off side, it's all about working together.

[melzawelza]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

Who are the "people like that"?

Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals.

It happens.

Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay.

It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press.

Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare.

It never fails to surprise and disappoint me when significant neglect and cruelty is defended on a forum for animal lovers.

[q

ETA again. I have just found this post from Just Andrea on a Past Rescues thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/262675-glenfield-rd-animal-shelter-wagga-wagga/page__st__30 #39

and I think it explains some of the conflict between this pound and volunteers.

Yes special thank you to all those people on the country pound pledges page who hassled the Rangers when they were asked not. This is the result. Anything on rescue Rex that is due tomorrow is likely on list. And anything that isn't up on rescue Rex that is due tomorrow we will never know. The list - that I have been getting every week for 8 years successfully and sharing with rescuers and working well with Rangers - was the only way to make sure none didn't slip through the cracks that didn't get up on Rex. So thank you for ruining a long standing relationship many of us have with this pound- for ones that will be put to sleep without even a chance. You know who you are. Well done - you will be responsible for god knows how many deaths we won't even know about.

Just picking up on this quote from Just Andrea. She seems to be defending the pound however her words only show pound staff that are manipulative and use the threat of killing to keep volunteers quiet. I'm sorry, any pound that decides to kill animals to punish humans (whether the humans behaved justly or not) should no be in this position nor be in charge of the welfare of vulnerable animals. This is how these sorts of facilities keep advocates quiet - they know that if they threaten to kill or ban them from the facility, their love of animals will mean they stop demanding better. At some point that has to stop and the rescuers and volunteers need to demand better. I'm so glad these women have.

[melzawelza]

What sort of person makes a comment like that about a disabled dog? Do posts to their website have to be approved or can individual staff members just post as they see fit?

I just feel ill and so sad that poor defenceless dogs and cats can find themselves at the mercy of people like that. Is this okay with the people of Wagga? Is it still happening? Are rescuers allowed on the premises? I feel helpless because I want to help but I don't know what to do.

Who are the "people like that"?

Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals.

It happens.

Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay.

It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press.

Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare.

I'm the first to admit that the welfare activists make a mess.

And you're right, it happens and it happens everywhere. But there is a track record of difficulty within this pound and for some reason other councils whose staff are paid equally poorly and work under the same stressors manage to suck it up and get better outcomes for their animals. In some cases, volunteers are the only ones with any time to help the inmates and over-stretched staff welcome the help.

Any pound's volunteers are paid nothing and work hundreds of hours under their own amount of stress, it doesn't mean they are there to be whipping boys when staff are challenged over their actions.

I honestly can't see much changing. Council will make noise about sorting things out and it will all go back to normal.

Things will change as they have different rangers and a General Manager who will make it work, I feel volunteers should still be able to help BUT they need to sign a confidentially document to stop this sort of thing happening again, also work with the rangers and management not against them it is all about the attitudes of all and for the animals as their top priority.

The issue happened well over 12 months ago and as Andrea said some volunteers go in like a bull at a gate and do get the staff off side, it's all about working together.

Are you kidding? Right, so the pound can go right back to doing an extremely sub-par job and being actively cruel without any worry of being exposed. If they do their job and they do it properly there is no need for a confidentiality agreement. Ever notice how other pounds who employ the right people and prioritise lifesaving and and welfare don't have confidentiality agreements, nor do they have scandals in the media?