Item About Victoria Stilwell

[persephone]

there is a lot of stuff on this page - today, only the police dog story interests me .Annoys me, angers me , and makes me wonder what some folks think (or don't )

oh dear

Not sure who bit off more than they could chew here ....

*shakes head*

explanation -

CLICK HERE

excerpt :

from Victoria's blog:

CLICK HERE

excerpt :

The Details

Since the news of the bite broke publicly, there have been many who have weighed in on the event, some of whom claim to have been present at the training. Much of this has been mischaracterized, so for the sake of clarity, here are a few key details:

• I was not training this dog. I hadn’t been asked to, I never had, and I didn’t attempt to in this case. I was merely a bystander in a situation that went wrong, and in that sense I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• I had my camera with me, but not to get any specific ‘better angles’ of filming. I was invited to ride in a helicopter – something I’d always wanted to do – and was invited to observe the training regimen of a high-drive working dog – something I’m passionately interested in and love doing.
• I will be fine. I’m healing well and will continue to take it easy as I recover.

As most of you know, I do a great deal of work with dog bite prevention among the pet dog community. A core belief of responsible pet trainers is that if you are training an aggressive pet dog and he bites you, it’s your fault – there are precautions you should have taken, warning signals you should have heeded, and triggers you should have known to avoid. When that happens in the pet dog world, the trainer has failed the dog (and the human client). While I now have a more complete understanding of the mental and physical toll a severe dog bite can have on the victim, this case is a different beast altogether. This was a working dog who, quite simply, is trained to apprehend people. And I have had the incredible learning experience of being on the other end of an apprehension!

Edited March 26, 2016 by persephone

[Kavik]

Yes I read that too. Not sure what to think, I haven't been keeping up to date with her and what she is doing. I have done enough training with protection/security dog trainers to know that you don't mess around with that sort of training, some of the dogs are very serious, you have to be very careful and that things can go wrong.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Kavik

[persephone]

All I can say is that it would have been one hell of a fright - coupled with some very very intense pain!!

[Willem]

...reminds me a little bit of the 'CM pig's ear incident'...only the people directly involved will know exactly what happened and it is doubtful that the public get an unbiased, objective report as everyone involved and writing about it will just pursue his/hers own interests.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I guess her situation is not a lot different than if you're walking in a park or along a footpath and get attacked by a dog that you weren't interacting with.

If this was a police dog in training and it latched onto the wrong person... erm. The "out" should have been quicker.

[persephone]

I guess her situation is not a lot different than if you're walking in a park or along a footpath and get attacked by a dog that you weren't interacting with.

If this was a police dog in training and it latched onto the wrong person... erm. The "out" should have been quicker.

the 'out' couldn't have come soon enough! that would have been one very firm and unhesitating chomp!

[Simply Grand]

...reminds me a little bit of the 'CM pig's ear incident'...only the people directly involved will know exactly what happened and it is doubtful that the public get an unbiased, objective report as everyone involved and writing about it will just pursue his/hers own interests.

It's different to the CM pig incident in that there was no third party that wasn't given a choice involved. Obviously something went wrong here but Victoria, as she said herself, was aware that she was putting herself in a situation where she potentially could be hurt, which is totally fine and her choice to do. The pig had no such choice.

That doesn't at all mean I think she deserved to get bitten, of course she didn't! But it was a training exercise and from what Victoria says it sounds as though it was a new situation for the dog. Hopefully everyone involved in this incident can look back how the exercise was conducted and the lead up to the bite and see what needs to be changed for next time.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Simply Grand

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I guess her situation is not a lot different than if you're walking in a park or along a footpath and get attacked by a dog that you weren't interacting with.

If this was a police dog in training and it latched onto the wrong person... erm. The "out" should have been quicker.

the 'out' couldn't have come soon enough! that would have been one very firm and unhesitating chomp!

I think - to get both legs so severely - there must have been more than one chomp. And don't they usually go for an arm?

[The Spotted Devil]

I guess her situation is not a lot different than if you're walking in a park or along a footpath and get attacked by a dog that you weren't interacting with.

If this was a police dog in training and it latched onto the wrong person... erm. The "out" should have been quicker.

the 'out' couldn't have come soon enough! that would have been one very firm and unhesitating chomp!

I think - to get both legs so severely - there must have been more than one chomp. And don't they usually go for an arm?

They tend to go for the limb closest...during training the person usually presents the protected limb.

Edited March 26, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[persephone]

I guess her situation is not a lot different than if you're walking in a park or along a footpath and get attacked by a dog that you weren't interacting with.

If this was a police dog in training and it latched onto the wrong person... erm. The "out" should have been quicker.

the 'out' couldn't have come soon enough! that would have been one very firm and unhesitating chomp!

I think - to get both legs so severely - there must have been more than one chomp. And don't they usually go for an arm?

Who knows how it played out - it seems odd - and i guess we will never know what took place . ;) p'raps ms Stilwell dropped a treat ?

Anyhow - it would have given everyone a nasty shock - and I daresay protocols will be different now .

[Kavik]

I guess her situation is not a lot different than if you're walking in a park or along a footpath and get attacked by a dog that you weren't interacting with.

If this was a police dog in training and it latched onto the wrong person... erm. The "out" should have been quicker.

the 'out' couldn't have come soon enough! that would have been one very firm and unhesitating chomp!

I think - to get both legs so severely - there must have been more than one chomp. And don't they usually go for an arm?

Schutzhund/IPO dogs are trained to go for the arm only, but police/protection dogs are trained to go for the closest limb or body part as TSD said. In training they can be taught to target legs, shoulders as well as arms, through the use of special bite suits, and are also taught to be 'civil' and not equipment oriented, whereas IPO dogs are taught to be equipment oriented.

[Scottsmum]

Update here: https://positively.com/victorias-blog/my-police-dog-dog-bite-accident/

[Willem]

hm, now it reminds me even more of the CM pig's ear incident...with her in the pig role....a pretty stupid setup wrt the noise a running helicopter generates - how should the dog hear a clear cue in all this noise?...plus all these flapping clothes due to the turbulences caused by the blades that makes it even harder for the dog to recognise any hand signals...

might have been a good idea to train it first without the running engine and allow the dog to familiarize with someone sitting in the rear...

quote:"When the dog was finally released to jump into the helicopter, he immediately saw me there and instinctively went in for a bite..."

...that's the point...with all the noise there was a high risk that the dog misunderstand the cue he got from the handler when he was released ...so much about 'the best of the best'...

Edited March 27, 2016 by Willem

[JulesP]

Well that all sounds like a bit of a f*** up!

[Scottsmum]

Well that all sounds like a bit of a f*** up!

Does rather.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I guess they won't be doing that again. Does explain how it all went to hell. Too many firsts at once, for dogs, handlers and observers.

[tdierikx]

She posts on her popular blog that she's been bitten during a cocked up training session...and keeps going on about how much it hurts and how she's got to take painkillers, etc... then wonders why people are having a go at her stupidity. Surely this is not the first and only time she's ever been bitten by a dog?

Funnily enough,if this had happened with a pet dog she'd been asked to come help sort out, she'd be advising euthanasia... I've seen her show once or twice, and her attitude seems to be that if she can't sort whatever the issue is, then the dog in question should be put down... *sigh*

T.

[Kavik]

I guess they won't be doing that again. Does explain how it all went to hell. Too many firsts at once, for dogs, handlers and observers.

I agree with that - too many new things all at once

[Willem]

..."I was not doing any training (behavioral or otherwise) with this dog."...she is sitting in a confined space knowing that a dog trained for attack will jump in, and she is really assuming that she is not part of the 'game' and might end up as the 'hostile target' if the dog has to make his own choice (once released) as his hearing is heavily restricted by the helicopter noise?????...such comments are acceptable from someone with little experience in dog training, but from a self declared expert?????

[raineth]

She posts on her popular blog that she's been bitten during a cocked up training session...and keeps going on about how much it hurts and how she's got to take painkillers, etc... then wonders why people are having a go at her stupidity. Surely this is not the first and only time she's ever been bitten by a dog?

Funnily enough,if this had happened with a pet dog she'd been asked to come help sort out, she'd be advising euthanasia... I've seen her show once or twice, and her attitude seems to be that if she can't sort whatever the issue is, then the dog in question should be put down... *sigh*

T.

Really? By the description this isn't an ordinary dog bite, but a completely un-inhibited bite from a large dog trained to bite. It would hurt like hell.