Dog Aggression- Training Help

[eviea]

Hi,

I have a 6 year old Staffordshire Terrier that has serious dog aggression issues. He is very intelligent and quick to learn (great with sit, stay, come etc.) but as soon as he is around another dog he becomes fearful and aggressive. He is a rescue dog and has most likely suffered from abuse. I have been to a trainer who advocated positive reinforcement/rewards-based training but had no luck at all.

I am looking for a trainer or obedience school who can help us to work through these issues, any recommendations would be great! We are in the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne but would be happy to travel a little to find the right trainer.

Hoping you can help!

[Two Best Dogs!]

I'm also in the northern suburbs but I've been going out to kew to attend positive k9 training. I attend the group courses to build her confidence around dogs and to reduce reactivity/improve inpulse control - but before attending group courses reactive dogs get assessed in a one on one by the head trainer to see if they're ready to step into group sessions albeit with extra space.

http://www.positivek9training.com.au

You could contact them to see the best fit. There are 4 or so trainers and they get rotated around so you can see different approaches and methods. I like some methods more than others but they've all been beneficial in their own way.

i have been learning a lot and she has really come far. Still a bit to go (also reactive to ppl as well as dogs but now I would say is more dog tolerant thanks to the classes) but am glad I joined. They're great at answering indepth questions outside of class too - ranging from texts, emails, Facebook and phone calls. I've had lots of questions as challenges arise :)

Good luck!

Edited March 24, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[persephone]

Hi,

I have a 6 year old Staffordshire Terrier that has serious dog aggression issues. He is very intelligent and quick to learn (great with sit, stay, come etc.) but as soon as he is around another dog he becomes fearful and aggressive. He is a rescue dog and has most likely suffered from abuse. I have been to a trainer who advocated positive reinforcement/rewards-based training but had no luck at all.

I am looking for a trainer or obedience school who can help us to work through these issues, any recommendations would be great! We are in the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne but would be happy to travel a little to find the right trainer.

Hoping you can help!

UNDERDOG dog training :) CLICK HERE. They are a member on D O L here ..and get lots of recommendations.

best of luck with your boy.

Yopu might also get much help from this thread CLICK HERE .

[Willem]

Hi,

I have a 6 year old Staffordshire Terrier that has serious dog aggression issues. He is very intelligent and quick to learn (great with sit, stay, come etc.) but as soon as he is around another dog he becomes fearful and aggressive. He is a rescue dog and has most likely suffered from abuse. I have been to a trainer who advocated positive reinforcement/rewards-based training but had no luck at all.

I am looking for a trainer or obedience school who can help us to work through these issues, any recommendations would be great! We are in the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne but would be happy to travel a little to find the right trainer.

Hoping you can help!

not much to do with luck, instead it is about time consuming training. You have to replace one reflex (the not wanted one) with another reflex and that takes time and repetition, repetition ...repetition...if you only do it twice a week and let the dog get away the rest of the week with this unwanted behaviour it just doesn't work.

The reward (whether it is a treat, ball / toy, pat ...) helps to keep the dog keen to focus on you, so it is just a vehicle that allows you to repeat the exercises. Unfortunately, people tend to believe it is like throwing a pill in to fix a medical issue - dog training doesn't work like this, and especially if you want to use positive reinforcement as your trainings tool and want to be successful you have to accept that it is a time consuming measure.

[persephone]

oh ..I forgot to add THIS to your reading list!! you may also consider using the services of the author , Mark Singer.

CLICK HERE

excerpt :

If you do have an on-lead aggressive dog, please see a professional that can assess your dog and understand why the dog is reacting, and then adjusts their methods accordingly. Never go to a trainer that has a one method suits all mentality.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

He is a rescue dog and has most likely suffered from abuse.

Maybe - you think so because of the way some of them carry on, but in fact - some dogs are born this way and it's very hard to get them to see the world as a friendly place. But they can definitely be improved. Some dogs have been horribly abused and still see the world as a great place and forgive all.

I have been to a trainer who advocated positive reinforcement/rewards-based training but had no luck at all.

This is usually the best way to get a good result.

Punishing a dog that is frightened - just gives it a good reason (instead of an irrational one) to be frightened. Scolding or slapping a dog for growling - can lead to suppression of the growl - so the dog goes from aware of another dog to attack with no inbetween warning for anyone, because it's been "trained" not to give any warning (growl).

As Willem said - if you reward train for some of the time and put your dog in situations where it is overwhelmed (too close) and reacts badly other times - you're going to set your training back.

Also with my dog - if I reward calm behaviour - after bad behaviour with food - she acts bad then calm to get the treat. If I reward with pats and praise - she understands that and the pats and praise help calm her down some more. I also reward with distance - moving away - which reduces the pressure and need in her to be scary.

PS this is one of K9pro video on retraining a fear aggressive dog - excuse the dramatic music.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[eviea]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback, it's really great! I will have a look into underdogs and positive k9.

We are more than happy to try rewards based training if it is successful however we were finding that our dog was so fearful he was not interested in treats or food, he just would ignore them. Of course I don't want to punish my dog for being scared at all. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort in- I know that it is never just a 'quick fix'. I just want to make sure I am putting the time into doing the right thing for my dog and not making him worse.

It's a bit tricky because the amount of information out there is quite overwhelming and can be very contradictory also.

I guess that's where having the right trainer comes in :)

[The Spotted Devil]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback, it's really great! I will have a look into underdogs and positive k9.

We are more than happy to try rewards based training if it is successful however we were finding that our dog was so fearful he was not interested in treats or food, he just would ignore them. Of course I don't want to punish my dog for being scared at all. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort in- I know that it is never just a 'quick fix'. I just want to make sure I am putting the time into doing the right thing for my dog and not making him worse.

It's a bit tricky because the amount of information out there is quite overwhelming and can be very contradictory also.

I guess that's where having the right trainer comes in :)

When a dog is so aroused or fearful that they won't accept treats, you need to increase the distance between the dog and the scary thing or the distraction until they can deal with it.

Certainly the vast majority of the 100s of shelter/rescue/problem dogs I see have received little or inappropriate socialisation rather than having been abused. There can also be a genetic factor of course.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback, it's really great! I will have a look into underdogs and positive k9.

We are more than happy to try rewards based training if it is successful however we were finding that our dog was so fearful he was not interested in treats or food, he just would ignore them. Of course I don't want to punish my dog for being scared at all. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort in- I know that it is never just a 'quick fix'. I just want to make sure I am putting the time into doing the right thing for my dog and not making him worse.

It's a bit tricky because the amount of information out there is quite overwhelming and can be very contradictory also.

I guess that's where having the right trainer comes in :)

Is there something else he likes more than food? For my first few lessons my dog wouldn't eat at all and spent most of the time on edge and cowering behind me - even with all the space between us and the other dogs/people - alas at 15 metres, her safe space, i cannot hear the instructor. So i stuck purely to calm/quiet praise and patting. But each time she was a little less stressed when "nothing happened" and started looking around as she got used to seeing the same dogs/people every week. By the 4th-5th week I could start rewarding with food. She wasn't relaxed by any means, but it made it easier to let her know it was okay. But I still have times where I need to step back and move us further away.

I also find when she is up to eating food, scattering it around us encouraged her to move and relax a little. Imitation exploring.

Yes there is so much to learn and so many ways! It can be intimidating. One thing I've been trying to do is only focussing on "the next step" instead of worrying about the entire journey to get where we want. We are still a ways off (makes my tummy do flips thinking how far to go, and how far we have come!) and sometimes there are set backs but each time is a little better as we get new habits. My current mental goal is for her to sit quietly while strangers (men) walk past. Getting there!

I do hope you try positive k9 training, for the purely selfish reason that they have been working so well for me so I want everyone to be as helped as much as me XD and we can wave at each other from a huge distance

(I am really enjoying the social aspect too. Nice bunch of people. Not something I specifically was looking for but turns out the social support here on the reactive thread and from the people at my training school have been invaluable. Especially after set backs :) )

Do you know LAT? I don't know the specifics of it but I've been doing a version of it I think - everytime my dog looks at something that scares her (that is far enough away she is only looking not freaked out) - I give a treat. The basic idea I think is that they learn to look at the scary thing (and nothing bad happens) and eventually associate it with positive/good things. This worked better for me with dogs than with people, even now I keep treats at my door incase of guests.

This is why dog classes are good I think, because you can look at other dogs in a controlled environment and know trainers can step in if you're too overwhelmed (cause we can get overwhelmed too :) )

Edited March 25, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[eviea]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback, it's really great! I will have a look into underdogs and positive k9.

We are more than happy to try rewards based training if it is successful however we were finding that our dog was so fearful he was not interested in treats or food, he just would ignore them. Of course I don't want to punish my dog for being scared at all. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort in- I know that it is never just a 'quick fix'. I just want to make sure I am putting the time into doing the right thing for my dog and not making him worse.

It's a bit tricky because the amount of information out there is quite overwhelming and can be very contradictory also.

I guess that's where having the right trainer comes in :)

When a dog is so aroused or fearful that they won't accept treats, you need to increase the distance between the dog and the scary thing or the distraction until they can deal with it.

Certainly the vast majority of the 100s of shelter/rescue/problem dogs I see have received little or inappropriate socialisation rather than having been abused. There can also be a genetic factor of course.

Thanks for your advice! we will never know for sure what has happened, but the reason we suspected abuse is because the dog was quite badly wounded when we got him and also has a lot of scarring. But there is no reason he can't become a well-behaved and sociable dog. It will be a long and slow process but worth it :)

[eviea]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback, it's really great! I will have a look into underdogs and positive k9.

We are more than happy to try rewards based training if it is successful however we were finding that our dog was so fearful he was not interested in treats or food, he just would ignore them. Of course I don't want to punish my dog for being scared at all. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort in- I know that it is never just a 'quick fix'. I just want to make sure I am putting the time into doing the right thing for my dog and not making him worse.

It's a bit tricky because the amount of information out there is quite overwhelming and can be very contradictory also.

I guess that's where having the right trainer comes in :)

Is there something else he likes more than food? For my first few lessons my dog wouldn't eat at all and spent most of the time on edge and cowering behind me - even with all the space between us and the other dogs/people - alas at 15 metres, her safe space, i cannot hear the instructor. So i stuck purely to calm/quiet praise and patting. But each time she was a little less stressed when "nothing happened" and started looking around as she got used to seeing the same dogs/people every week. By the 4th-5th week I could start rewarding with food. She wasn't relaxed by any means, but it made it easier to let her know it was okay. But I still have times where I need to step back and move us further away.

I also find when she is up to eating food, scattering it around us encouraged her to move and relax a little. Imitation exploring.

Yes there is so much to learn and so many ways! It can be intimidating. One thing I've been trying to do is only focussing on "the next step" instead of worrying about the entire journey to get where we want. We are still a ways off (makes my tummy do flips thinking how far to go, and how far we have come!) and sometimes there are set backs but each time is a little better as we get new habits. My current mental goal is for her to sit quietly while strangers (men) walk past. Getting there!

I do hope you try positive k9 training, for the purely selfish reason that they have been working so well for me so I want everyone to be as helped as much as me XD and we can wave at each other from a huge distance

(I am really enjoying the social aspect too. Nice bunch of people. Not something I specifically was looking for but turns out the social support here on the reactive thread and from the people at my training school have been invaluable. Especially after set backs :) )

Do you know LAT? I don't know the specifics of it but I've been doing a version of it I think - everytime my dog looks at something that scares her (that is far enough away she is only looking not freaked out) - I give a treat. The basic idea I think is that they learn to look at the scary thing (and nothing bad happens) and eventually associate it with positive/good things. This worked better for me with dogs than with people, even now I keep treats at my door incase of guests.

This is why dog classes are good I think, because you can look at other dogs in a controlled environment and know trainers can step in if you're too overwhelmed (cause we can get overwhelmed too :) )

Your dog sounds a lot like our dog, but it seems like you have made real progress! Hopefully we can too. We will definitely check out positive K9- I had a bit of a read up about them today and they sound really good, they're not too far for us to get to either. I hope all goes well with the rest of your training!

[eviea]

Hi,

I have a 6 year old Staffordshire Terrier that has serious dog aggression issues. He is very intelligent and quick to learn (great with sit, stay, come etc.) but as soon as he is around another dog he becomes fearful and aggressive. He is a rescue dog and has most likely suffered from abuse. I have been to a trainer who advocated positive reinforcement/rewards-based training but had no luck at all.

I am looking for a trainer or obedience school who can help us to work through these issues, any recommendations would be great! We are in the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne but would be happy to travel a little to find the right trainer.

Hoping you can help!

UNDERDOG dog training :) CLICK HERE. They are a member on D O L here ..and get lots of recommendations.

best of luck with your boy.

Yopu might also get much help from this thread CLICK HERE .

Thanks for your recommendation! The thread was helpful as well. :)

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

The LAT training is described in detail in a book called "control unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt

There's a similar system developed or published around the same time called BAT or Behaviour Adjustment Training by Grisha Stewart.

If your dog won't take food - like the others said - you're too close to the trigger. You need to find a place where there is a trigger (eg another dog) but where you can be far enough away that your dog will still listen to you and then you can practice. This is not that easy to find but around here, dog clubs can be good because all the out of control dogs have to be on lead... and you can be the other side of a football oval (where dogs are also supposed to be on lead).

And then you take note of what that distance is in that place (it's going to be a little bit different in every new place) - and work on the edge of it.

Sometimes with really extremely sensitive dogs, they need to be put on valium / Prozac for dogs - just so you can get them to be calm enough to pay attention to you for training. And once they're used to the training routine and starting to calm down, then they can start to come off the drug. For that system you need a vet-behaviourist (equivalent to a psychiatrist who can prescribe drugs) and a trainer (eg equivalent to a psychologist or a counsellor or life coach who can teach you new ways of looking at the world but not prescribe drugs). sometimes that's one person but often it's two.

Hopefully you don't need to go the drug route but it is an option if you can't find a way to be on the edge of the trigger distance.

Look forward to updates after you talk to Thistledog's trainer.

[skip]

I am glad you are looking at getting a good trainer. You. Really need help to modify your dogs behaviour and at 6 that's a fair while practising those undesirable behaviours.

Yourdog will improve and you can learn to manage the issue.

I have a Kellie who is just so scared of unleashed dogs. Had her as a pup,my third agilitydog and she did compete in. Sports and herding.

She has doggy friends she adores and also many small dogs she will accept. But she will never be adog for a off leash area or safe with strange dogs approaching. I can manage this and it is disappointing she has so much fear still.

So if at times you are at your wits end, don't dispare. With positive rewards and counter conditioning you can manage to create happy days for your dog. Have learnt heaps with my dog but still learning.