Fear Period At 9 Months?

[Loba]

My beautiful Shepherd boy has been very well-socialised as a puppy and has a very affectionate, playful, outgoing temperament or should I say...had! About four weeks ago and almost literally overnight he became frightened of everything including things that he has encountered every single day since he was 8 weeks old ie parked cars, vacuum cleaners (off or going makes no difference) people walking behind or beside him that he doesn't know, helicopters flying overhead, the rubbish bin (swear to God every day now it is like he has never seen it before)someone knocking at our front door, the neighbour's elderly cat etc etc. It is probably easier to list the things he isnt afraid of!

He will still come willingly to have his lead put on but once we leave our driveway walking with him is a nightmare - he constantly pulls to duck under bushes or park benches etc so he can hide, he swerves at lamp posts to avoid them, he swerves at the sight of a parked car, he constantly looks back to see if anyone is walking behind us...

I have spoken to two different trainers about this and the first one suggested that he needed to not be molly-coddled and so long as he was healthy (yes we had him vet checked) and nothing was unfamiliar to him that we should just carry on with a rather jolly tone and just make him do all the things he had been happily doing before. The second trainer suggested that he was in a second fear period and to go back to basics ie very short walks, stopping as soon as he got scared of anything and giving him plenty of time to investigate it before rewarding him and turning back for home with the long term goal of slowly increasing how far he is comfortable going from home.

I have to say it is becoming frustrating that this gorgeous dog who has been so happy and confident four weeks ago is now so hard to walk with or do anything outside our house and yard with.

Help please??

[DobieMum]

I would give yourself a bit of extra time to take the walk and be willining to stop. Hopefully you can see what particular item he's reacting to this time and be so blaise about it yourself eg. If its a parked car, lean on parked car and study what's under your fingernails, when he approached object and checks it out, praise him and move on with your walk.

I read somewhere once, that if you have a fear of heights and someone puts you on rop of a cliff, trying to feed you chocolate is not going to work, because you can't react to take the chocolate and you don't recognise it as a reward in that situation. Same thing with the dog, he can't understand it as a reward, but if your not reacting to it and your looking very bored by it, it can't really be a bad thing can it?

[Loba]

Thanks for this advice. You make a good point I should have mentioned - when we do go out of the house he is far too afraid to take even suer high value treats so yes, your suggestions may well work better!

[corrie]

It is possible your dog is going through a fear period. I think there is a pinned topic related to it in the training forum if I remember correctly. I would possibly avoid taking your dog into situations that make him very fearful for the time being and do more training in situations where he is more confident and you are able to reward confident behaviour.

Taking your dog into fearful situations during a fear period and using rewards can be tricky as it is easy to unwittingly reward the dog when he/she is feeling fearful and reinforce that behaviour.

Edited March 22, 2016 by corrie

[Willem]

to my knowledge it is pretty normal that a dog has more than one fear period; having a second one with 9 month seems to be just part of the normal development. Just keep on going with socialisation, normal routines and training and be a positive and confident leader for him.

[corrie]

This is the link I was thinking of. It is the puppy development calendar. It is in the puppy forum, not the training forum like I originally thought.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/117592-puppy-development-calender/#

[Papillon Kisses]

I waited until others replied as it's been a while since I studied puppy development. Even so, as someone with a rescue dog who has been diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder and the dog version of OCD, I feel I must respond from that perspective.

I am not at all saying your dog has an anxiety disorder or the beginnings of it by any means — I'm not qualified to make that assessment and this may well be completely normal puppy behaviour — but how we respond to puppies during their development can make a huge difference to how they are as adults. You have a puppy who is fearful at the moment, so let's be sure he has the best possible chance of becoming a confident adult within the bounds of his genetic potential.

Since you are getting two completely different responses from trainers, I'd first question what their qualifications are. The pet industry is unregulated when it comes to trainers; any Joe Bloggs can open up shop. So if one or both of those trainers don't actually have qualifications in dog behaviour and psychology, but are just general obedience trainers, listen to the one who does or get expert help. This could be from a trainer who has those extra qualifications or a veterinary behaviourist.

Vet behaviourists are vets who have completed additional tertiary studies to specialise in animal behaviour, just like they can do in other fields like internal medicine, surgery, etc. Vet behaviourists can be (justifiably) very expensive, but with puppies the consultations are typically a lot shorter and therefore cheaper. Maybe the "big guns" aren't needed, I'm just putting it out there as an option.

I can't vouch for my dog's puppyhood as he was a rescue and only came to me at 2-3 years. But I often wonder whether he'd be a very different dog if as a puppy he had someone who was as invested in his mental health and welfare as we are, and as you seem to be for your puppy. You have such a wonderful opportunity to set him on the right path. :)

[karly101]

An ADAPTIL collar may help take the edge off - put on on now and it will last for a month.

Every dog is different which is why there are different solutions - I found it best to not react but redirect (practice 'Watch me') and reward a different behaviour instead - sometimes that's enough to let the fear pass and then I would walk up to the object again and let my dog check it out at a lower level of fear, then redirect and keep going. For a fire hydrant that was particularly intimidating my dog LOVES the ball so when he saw that fire hydrant (but BEFORE he reacted) that's when the ball came out of the pocket and a game began.

[corvus]

I would not consider this "normal" puppy behaviour. He is suddenly dysfunctional both in and out of his home environment. Fear periods can make a dog a bit jumpy and skittish, even around things they have encountered before, but a few treats and time to investigate at their own pace if relevant should see them through. Being so scared you are constantly looking for the danger and trying to hide is not fun, and nor could it be considered adaptive in any way. I would be suspicious there is something more serious going on and get a VB to see him. It sounds to me like something has happened that has really rattled him deeply. Such a dramatic behaviour change in a short period is cause for concern IMO.

[Purdie]

I would give yourself a bit of extra time to take the walk and be willining to stop. Hopefully you can see what particular item he's reacting to this time and be so blaise about it yourself eg. If its a parked car, lean on parked car and study what's under your fingernails, when he approached object and checks it out, praise him and move on with your walk.

I read somewhere once, that if you have a fear of heights and someone puts you on rop of a cliff, trying to feed you chocolate is not going to work, because you can't react to take the chocolate and you don't recognise it as a reward in that situation. Same thing with the dog, he can't understand it as a reward, but if your not reacting to it and your looking very bored by it, it can't really be a bad thing can it?

Yes by touching the car or whatever the object the dog is scared of you transfer your familiar scent to the object and also it is like when a dog sniffs around to investigate the surroundings.If two dogs walk around a new yard together; watch the less confidant dog approach the areas the confident dog has already investigated,he is more relaxed there than when he has to go to a corner of the yard on his own where the other dog hasn't been yet.

When we got a scratching post for our cat he was scared of it until i ran my hands over it several times to get my scent onto it and then right away he started using it.

Can you go walking with another dog as company to boost his confidence.Also get an T shirt or sock of yours and rub it over things that he is most scared to approach

at home and when out walking then see if he will follow the scent to the object.

ETa Hold off giving treats,you could inadvertently be rewarding him for feeling scared.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Purdie

[The Spotted Devil]

Just a note - you can't reinforce an emotion only a behaviour. So you can't reward him for feeling scared but you may reward a behaviour that occurs in response to him feeling fearful. Food rewards are a valuable part of changing how an animal feels about its environment.

[The Spotted Devil]

I would definitely recommend seeing a professional - there is too much going on here for diagnosis over the Internet - sorry!

[Purdie]

Just a note - you can't reinforce an emotion only a behaviour. So you can't reward him for feeling scared but you may reward a behaviour that occurs in response to him feeling fearful. Food rewards are a valuable part of changing how an animal feels about its environment.

Feeling scared as you say is a behavior and rewarding that fearful behavior gives the message that being scared is ok.

Only reward dogs when they are relaxed confident and doing the right thing.

I am personally not a fan of constant food rewards.Praise and positive voice / body language speaks volumes to a dog.

[The Spotted Devil]

Just a note - you can't reinforce an emotion only a behaviour. So you can't reward him for feeling scared but you may reward a behaviour that occurs in response to him feeling fearful. Food rewards are a valuable part of changing how an animal feels about its environment.

Feeling scared as you say is a behavior and rewarding that fearful behavior gives the message that being scared is ok.

Only reward dogs when they are relaxed confident and doing the right thing.

I am personally not a fan of constant food rewards.Praise and positive voice / body language speaks volumes to a dog.

Sorry Purdie but feeling scared is not a behaviour. Feeling scared is an emotion. Biting someone (triggered by feeling scared) is a behaviour. I use food rewards extensively with my clients' fearful dogs. If used correctly they are extremely powerful - much more so than praise.

[Purdie]

Just a note - you can't reinforce an emotion only a behaviour. So you can't reward him for feeling scared but you may reward a behaviour that occurs in response to him feeling fearful. Food rewards are a valuable part of changing how an animal feels about its environment.

Feeling scared as you say is a behavior and rewarding that fearful behavior gives the message that being scared is ok.

Only reward dogs when they are relaxed confident and doing the right thing.

I am personally not a fan of constant food rewards.Praise and positive voice / body language speaks volumes to a dog.

Sorry Purdie but feeling scared is not a behaviour. Feeling scared is an emotion. Biting someone (triggered by feeling scared) is a behaviour. I use food rewards extensively with my clients' fearful dogs. If used correctly they are extremely powerful - much more so than praise.

Ok if that works then great.I guess i must have a more old fashioned outdated approach / understanding of dog training.

Cheers..:)

[Kavik]

Just a note - you can't reinforce an emotion only a behaviour. So you can't reward him for feeling scared but you may reward a behaviour that occurs in response to him feeling fearful. Food rewards are a valuable part of changing how an animal feels about its environment.

Feeling scared as you say is a behavior and rewarding that fearful behavior gives the message that being scared is ok.

Only reward dogs when they are relaxed confident and doing the right thing.

I am personally not a fan of constant food rewards.Praise and positive voice / body language speaks volumes to a dog.

Sorry Purdie but feeling scared is not a behaviour. Feeling scared is an emotion. Biting someone (triggered by feeling scared) is a behaviour. I use food rewards extensively with my clients' fearful dogs. If used correctly they are extremely powerful - much more so than praise.

Ok if that works then great.I guess i must have a more old fashioned outdated approach / understanding of dog training.

Cheers..:)

One way to look at it is this:

You are going to feed your dog anyway. You might as well have fun/train your dog/reward your dog/change your dog's behaviour at the same time!

Edited March 26, 2016 by Kavik

[Willem]

Just a note - you can't reinforce an emotion only a behaviour. So you can't reward him for feeling scared but you may reward a behaviour that occurs in response to him feeling fearful. Food rewards are a valuable part of changing how an animal feels about its environment.

Feeling scared as you say is a behavior and rewarding that fearful behavior gives the message that being scared is ok.

Only reward dogs when they are relaxed confident and doing the right thing.

I am personally not a fan of constant food rewards.Praise and positive voice / body language speaks volumes to a dog.

Sorry Purdie but feeling scared is not a behaviour. Feeling scared is an emotion. Biting someone (triggered by feeling scared) is a behaviour. I use food rewards extensively with my clients' fearful dogs. If used correctly they are extremely powerful - much more so than praise.

of course it depends on how we define 'emotion', but if it is defined as an 'experience closely linked to the arousal of the nervous system' then I'm pretty sure that I / we can manipulate and reinforce emotions...e.g. when the dog is too close to the object that triggers the fear and cause this arousal we can use distance to manage the level of the arousal and therefore the dogs emotions...conversely if we would ignore the dog's fear and drag the dog behind us, his fear level will become likely so overwhelming that it will cause significant behavior issues that will be even harder to eliminate. ...we can also manipulate / reinforce emotions with drugs, by stimulations of senses, music, food...

According to scientific studies about 'emotions', 'the level of emotional tension is determined by the strength of a need and probability of its satisfaction', and these are parameters that definitely can be manipulated / reinforced.

ETA:...and of course,'feeling scared' is the emotion, not the resulting behavior; the resulting behaviour is ducking for cover, trying to hide, trying to move away from the object that triggers the fear...and that is where the reinforcement training starts: once you managed the emotional state of the dog by increasing the trigger zone to a distance big enough to lower his fear level that allows him to respond to you, you can start with rewarding wanted behaviour, e.g. every step closer to the object that triggers the fear...at the end the dogs learns that e.g. a parked car is no danger and the fear (=emotion) and the unwanted behaviour (ducking for cover, trying to hide...) disappears.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Willem

[corrie]

Someone not experienced in training can end up using food rewards and food as a lure when the dog is fearful and showing behaviour that reflects this. It is easy to think showing confident body language and giving lots of food treats can make the dog "come around" but it can unwittingly reward the fear (or behaviour that is reflective of the fear). I have made the above mistake due to my inexperience and feel that I created more problems because of it. Getting a professional in, as others have suggested, is a very good idea.

[Purdie]

Someone not experienced in training can end up using food rewards and food as a lure when the dog is fearful and showing behaviour that reflects this. It is easy to think showing confident body language and giving lots of food treats can make the dog "come around" but it can unwittingly reward the fear (or behaviour that is reflective of the fear). I have made the above mistake due to my inexperience and feel that I created more problems because of it. Getting a professional in, as others have suggested, is a very good idea.

This was the point i tried to make earlier;you explained it better.

http://www.gsdcv.org.au/branches

Edited March 26, 2016 by Purdie

[raineth]

What people forget is that every instance of operant conditioning is also an instance of classical conditioning. That is why you can go ahead and feed your dog in the presence of something scary, because the classical conditioning will work to reduce the fear. If you use punishment to try to reduce an undesirable behaviour that is brought about by fear, the problem is you are also conditioning your dog to be more afraid.

However it is always better to have the dog below threshold when you are doing any conditioning.