Urgh...the Words Rod And Back Come To Mind

[swain]

So we have this beautiful 14 week old pup that has been with us for 2 weeks. He is quite attached to us already which is fair enough cos he's left his home, his Ma and bro's n sisters. When i first bought him home i put him in a pen and he carried on and on. So i let him out. Now he doesn't like being kept in his pen at all (i know i know...my fault) anyway what i want to know is do i just start again and put him in the pen regardless of his barking? Will he eventually stop? Not surprisingly we are having toilet training issues so would like to confine when we can't supervise 100%. Any tips please ????

Also he's super vocal at meal times....best way to handle this? Ignore? Remove? I'm a bit lost.

Poor fella... don't wanna screw him up before he's 6 months!!!!!

Thanks ????

[Dogsfevr]

Go back to basics BUT above all without knowing what breed you have remember pup has 4 legs & needs to learn independent thinking .Your pup may not be attached as you think but more being barky because its not sure what you want .

What sort of outside access does it have ,what is your toileting plan for adulthood

[swain]

He's a german spitz. We have a doggie door that ideally we'd like him to use. Our other adult dogs just come in and out as needed. That is our goal with him to. He uses the dog door now to get a drink but not interested in going outside for toilet.

[The Spotted Devil]

He's a german spitz. We have a doggie door that ideally we'd like him to use. Our other adult dogs just come in and out as needed. That is our goal with him to. He uses the dog door now to get a drink but not interested in going outside for toilet.

Have you tried calling him through the open dog door to go outside to toilet? You need to set up a behaviour pattern for him. With regards to noise, reward quiet, cover pen with large sheet for noisy, remove sheet, wait for quiet, reward. Don't feed everything in a few meals but spread it out as training.

[Willem]

how often and how long do you walk him?

[Scottsmum]

Go back to basics BUT above all without knowing what breed you have remember pup has 4 legs & needs to learn independent thinking .Your pup may not be attached as you think but more being barky because its not sure what you want .

What sort of outside access does it have ,what is your toileting plan for adulthood

This.

Go back to bare basics for puppy toilet training and crate / place / pen training.

I'd be focusing on the toilet training more than worrying about the doggy door - yes they go hand in hand - and you want the pup to realise the two are connected - in and out for the loo.

But in my experience a well house trained dog will make that connection and take them selves out for the toilet and Spitz breeds tend to be pretty switched on yeh? It should get how to use the dog flap pretty quickly. Don't muddy the toilet training waters so to speak.

Bare bones loo basics:

Set a timer on your phone or an alarm to remind you to take your puppy or adult dog out every 1-2 hours, when ever they wake up, have just eaten or you get the vibe they need to go.

Stand in one spot

use a cue word (I say "do wees" - probably should have picked something more 'grown up')

wait....

Reward!

As for crate training - there's lots of info out there - and on here. For us - we practiced - lots of rewarding for going in on his own and we still give him a "good boy" when he picks his crate for a nap. But Scottie, mostly has choice about being in there and I haven't had him from a pup. I'd say go do the reading, pick a method which you like the sound of and start. I do still occasionally have to settle Scottie if he's having a bad time. I can think of 3 occasions in the past 12 months where I've had to go out, give him a cuddle, settle him and put him back in his box.

I always like to make sure he's warm (well - weather appropriate). He also likes having a toy with him and I usually throw something of mine in there with him - a worn dog walking T-shirt or jumper or even socks to help him stay settled. He also gets treats (bully stick or other appropriate chew thing) when I'm leaving him in there for a longer period and I leave something playing for him on the computer/radio too.

but thats just my 2 cents worth - focus on the loo training.

[Dogsfevr]

The fact you have a doggy door & other dogs to assist should make it very easy ,our pups at 6 weeks learn the doggy door & learn very quickly about asking out of the pen to toilet .

As he understands the door he now needs to understand the outside world is for toileting ,this is easily achieved ,don't make a big deal of it asking pup to toilet outside needs to be calm ,patient but encouraging to the world,walking around & ignoring the play or antics is important when pup does go then the big deal is mad ,if you call pup out the door multi times a day & just casually walk about in the ideal are pup will get it very quickly.

What can happen is the concentration span is limited so being with the big kids can often mean a distraction so if need be make time outside without the others so pup understands the reward for doing the job on its own

We don't cover our pens with the pups being able to switch off with distractions is important & learning that everything doesn't revolve around them takes boundries .

Some breeds love there voice ,providing pup isn't in there for an over the top time pup should be more than happy to sleep & have time out in the pen .

If pup is going to bark perform then weignore ,if we see what is happening then we make it part of the toilet process & pup goes straight outside calmly for the toilet even if it doesn't want but it isn't a game time ,touch time its calm .

The biggest thing is teaching pup the loo routine especially before winter & time out in the pen is fun

[swain]

He's a german spitz. We have a doggie door that ideally we'd like him to use. Our other adult dogs just come in and out as needed. That is our goal with him to. He uses the dog door now to get a drink but not interested in going outside for toilet.

Have you tried calling him through the open dog door to go outside to toilet? You need to set up a behaviour pattern for him. With regards to noise, reward quiet, cover pen with large sheet for noisy, remove sheet, wait for quiet, reward. Don't feed everything in a few meals but spread it out as training.

Thats a great idea! I suppose at the moment he probably just associates having back door open and us going out with him to toilet. Makes sense!

I've tried rewarding quiet in his pen but when i go to get his treat he starts again. Will cover crate when he's noisey. Thats a good idea to. Thank you!

[swain]

how often and how long do you walk him?

I must admit i haven't been very good with walking. Taken him out maybe 5 times. 5mins per month so 15 mins each time

[swain]

Go back to basics BUT above all without knowing what breed you have remember pup has 4 legs & needs to learn independent thinking .Your pup may not be attached as you think but more being barky because its not sure what you want .

What sort of outside access does it have ,what is your toileting plan for adulthood

This.

Go back to bare basics for puppy toilet training and crate / place / pen training.

I'd be focusing on the toilet training more than worrying about the doggy door - yes they go hand in hand - and you want the pup to realise the two are connected - in and out for the loo.

But in my experience a well house trained dog will make that connection and take them selves out for the toilet and Spitz breeds tend to be pretty switched on yeh? It should get how to use the dog flap pretty quickly. Don't muddy the toilet training waters so to speak.

Bare bones loo basics:

Set a timer on your phone or an alarm to remind you to take your puppy or adult dog out every 1-2 hours, when ever they wake up, have just eaten or you get the vibe they need to go.

Stand in one spot

use a cue word (I say "do wees" - probably should have picked something more 'grown up')

wait....

Reward!

As for crate training - there's lots of info out there - and on here. For us - we practiced - lots of rewarding for going in on his own and we still give him a "good boy" when he picks his crate for a nap. But Scottie, mostly has choice about being in there and I haven't had him from a pup. I'd say go do the reading, pick a method which you like the sound of and start. I do still occasionally have to settle Scottie if he's having a bad time. I can think of 3 occasions in the past 12 months where I've had to go out, give him a cuddle, settle him and put him back in his box.

I always like to make sure he's warm (well - weather appropriate). He also likes having a toy with him and I usually throw something of mine in there with him - a worn dog walking T-shirt or jumper or even socks to help him stay settled. He also gets treats (bully stick or other appropriate chew thing) when I'm leaving him in there for a longer period and I leave something playing for him on the computer/radio too.

but thats just my 2 cents worth - focus on the loo training.

Thanks Scottsmum. Some great ideas! Probably expecting too much from him.

At the moment he's outside....just given him a bone. ..and he's having a hissy fit to get inside.

I think he's definitely smarter than we are. Knows exactly whats gonna be effective to get us to give in.

[swain]

The fact you have a doggy door & other dogs to assist should make it very easy ,our pups at 6 weeks learn the doggy door & learn very quickly about asking out of the pen to toilet .

As he understands the door he now needs to understand the outside world is for toileting ,this is easily achieved ,don't make a big deal of it asking pup to toilet outside needs to be calm ,patient but encouraging to the world,walking around & ignoring the play or antics is important when pup does go then the big deal is mad ,if you call pup out the door multi times a day & just casually walk about in the ideal are pup will get it very quickly.

What can happen is the concentration span is limited so being with the big kids can often mean a distraction so if need be make time outside without the others so pup understands the reward for doing the job on its own

We don't cover our pens with the pups being able to switch off with distractions is important & learning that everything doesn't revolve around them takes boundries .

Some breeds love there voice ,providing pup isn't in there for an over the top time pup should be more than happy to sleep & have time out in the pen .

If pup is going to bark perform then weignore ,if we see what is happening then we make it part of the toilet process & pup goes straight outside calmly for the toilet even if it doesn't want but it isn't a game time ,touch time its calm .

The biggest thing is teaching pup the loo routine especially before winter & time out in the pen is fun

Thank you showdog. He has worked out the door to get a drink.....he just hasnt clicked with outside for toileting. Will try some extra stress free casual visits outside without the others.

We have set our timer take him out, he usually does something then back inside.....often he will do another one inside.

Is it best to keep him in his play pen most of the time to stop accidents?

[Willem]

how often and how long do you walk him?

I must admit i haven't been very good with walking. Taken him out maybe 5 times. 5mins per month so 15 mins each time

...there is quite some room for improvement...the best toilette training is walking the dog with a regular routine...different smells outside plus walking triggers urinating etc... It is also very important for socialisation...just keeping the dog in the backyard is - IMHO - a recipe for disaster.

ETA:...as the dog miss out on leash training, socialisation with other dogs, people, cars, etc., mental stimulation, bonding (it is different when walking the dog outside the home) and basic obedience training.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Willem

[swain]

how often and how long do you walk him?

I must admit i haven't been very good with walking. Taken him out maybe 5 times. 5mins per month so 15 mins each time

...there is quite some room for improvement...the best toilette training is walking the dog with a regular routine...different smells outside plus walking triggers urinating etc... It is also very important for socialisation...just keeping the dog in the backyard is - IMHO - a recipe for disaster.

ETA:...as the dog miss out on leash training, socialisation with other dogs, people, cars, etc., mental stimulation, bonding (it is different when walking the dog outside the home) and basic obedience training.

Excellent points Willem! I'm off work from tomorrow so will get started on a walking routine. Do you agree with the 5 mins per month of age? He's 13 weeks so 15 mins? Would you recommend once or twice a day at this age?

[Willem]

I guess the length of the stints depends a little bit on how fast the specific breed matures...no idea whether German Spitzes are slower or faster in this realm; it is - IMO - anyway better just to watch the dog and see how he responds: whether he gets tired or whether he is still keen to investigate things and environment.

wrt toilet training: if you want him to do the poos and pees while you walk him you have to offer him more than 1 or 2 walks per day at the beginning...better 3-4 times 10 minutes outside than 1 x 20 minutes. When he starts sniffing traces of other dogs it won't take long till he prefers to poo and pee outside...

[swain]

I took him for a little walk last night...so glad i did! He didn't wee or poo but he actually started to get used to cars going by. The times I've taken him before it wasnt busy so no cars going up our street.Thanks for the reminder of how important going out for a walk is Willem. Sounds silly but I've not considered that overly important when owning small dogs ????

[Dogsfevr]

Walking doesn't go on month ,the length goes on the age of the dog your pup can go for short walks every day which is very important to see the outside world ,.Your pup sounds like it's very reliant on you for being it's fun and you need to train it to be its own fun

You don't need to reward being quiet in the pen because all your doing is disrupting the correct behaviour just go about until pup asks to be out .

Don't over use the pen there a great tool but your pup is old enough to be having more out time and learning independent manners ,we recommend pens to our owners for over night sleeping,times pup can't be watched,sleep time and those with young children but we stress that over use that's away a pups independent thinking so you need to manage the time spent in to the time spent out

[swain]

Thanks showdog! Agree he's relying on us for fun too much. Don't want to overuse the pen but he piddles everywhere whenever we don't / can't watch him. We've done lots of outside work today. Went for a walk then car ride and more walking and going to lunch and shops etc. He didn't wee or poo the whole day. Get home....does a wee out front....praise praise praise.... inside for a bit, take him out does a poo....praise praise praise....comes inside for like 10 mins and does a wee n poo inside! Do we just clean up inside and ignore that he's done it? I can't find a pattern in his pottying. And he doesn't wee out n about

[Dogsfevr]

Yes just ignore you have to take the good with the bad and at present the pup isn't sure so going outside as often as possible is the key ,also if nothing happens come inside then encourage straight and lots of toilet words .The pattern of today is pup hung on all day until home so at have had more to toilet than one hit so next time that where you do the outside again

Don't worry about toileting out and about some will others won't but in time your pup will learn to loo on the lead but for examp,e walks here is not for toileting but as my dogs are show dogs they are taught as pups to toilet whilst on lead but its baby steps and your baby step is backyard for the loo.

Keep in mind if pup has been encourage to toilet inside in the pen some get confused about what is right/wrong so be very regular about outside for loo.Walks,car drives is about life experiences

[swain]

Yep..that makes a lot of sense. Its been 11yrs since we last had a pup and I forget that he's still so little and everything is about learning. Appreciate your help Showdog!!!!!