jezebeldobe Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hi all I hope this is the correct category for this discussion. I have had dogs for years but I have recently found myself in a position whereby one of my bitches will not tolerate other bitches. She was fine until she hit 4 years old and then all hell broke loose. This dog was well socialised as a puppy and adult and had never displayed any sort of aggression (not a growl or anything) towards any human or other dog. I am at loss and blaming myself. I have had her thyroid tested (basic tests) and nothing but I am going to do a full panel just to check. I was wondering if any of you have had to separate your bitches permanently or could give me some answers? Did you have a dog with an undiagnosed illness or was she just being protective of her territory, what did you end up doing, rehoming dog to no dog household, behaviourist, pts? I know there are many different factors for this happening so am just looking to hear some stories and advice. I thank you all in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I have had it once in a certain line. Managed it for a number of years until I had a terrible incident so I rehomed the bitch involved and her daughter. Both were lovely dogs in their own right and fine with other male dogs but couldn't be trusted with females. Looking back I wish I had done it sooner as everyone including the bitchs rehomed were happier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 What breed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Other questions- is her aggression to all bitches or just your own resident bitches, and if your own Is it one in particular she can't stand? Are they a relation? Has there been any change in living circumstances, eg death or loss of a resident bitch or dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Other questions- is her aggression to all bitches or just your own resident bitches, and if your own Is it one in particular she can't stand? Are they a relation? Has there been any change in living circumstances, eg death or loss of a resident bitch or dog? This ^ plus - has this bitch always "ruled the roost" or is/was there another bitch that does/did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezebeldobe Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Dobermanns.. Doesn't seem to be all bitches just those who live with us. She mauled my 13 year old dobe when she turned 4. We built runs. Crate and rotate. Is very aggressive to a slightly younger bitch and would no doubt attack her if I wasn't managing it the best I can. Fine with dogs. Not sure of whether to rehome to an experienced no dog home or to continue doing what I am doing now. I would never forgive myself if I rehomed her and something happened. My older bitch ruled the roost and I suppose she may have 'challenged' her so to speak. My younger girl is completely submissive to her but she is still aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 sounds a very difficult situation . I think rehoming would not be a responsible decision at this stage .Full assessment by a veterinary behaviourist would be a wise choice . Don't know .. but could there be a problem with hormones? or - she could unfortunately be one born like that ... and it struck at full maturity ? Someone here is bound to have some good advice, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Really need to get someone in to check them all out. It may even be the others starting it without you noticing the subtle signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezebeldobe Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Thanks Persephone. Yes just not sure. I have heard of SSA in this breed but knew it was higher risk for two males to be together. Even then, I see so many female full households its upsetting because that used to be us. Between a rock and a hard place regarding rehoming. I will do a full panel thyroid, could be hormones? She is also neutered. I just don't think our current system is fair to either dog although it works and I would be happy to continue if it needs to be done. I'm just looking for suggestions or stories and I appreciate any and all advice. I've always only had bitches, no dogs and never had a problem but I would be wary of having a multi bitch household again, at least in my breed. @cowanbree so rehoming worked for you? I mean, she was ok away from other bitches? Do you mind me asking what breed? You can pm if you like. Wonder if anyone could recommend a behaviorist in South Australia? I'm about 4 ours out of Adelaide but willing to drive any where. I have heard that some bitches from my breeder have turned out with SSA, which leads me to another question, is this sort of thing proven to run in certain lines? @JulesP unfortunately my eldest succumbed to her injures from the first attack and passed away. The other two are separated permanently but I just know for a fact its all the one bitch. My younger bitch is very very submissive to her..lays on her back generally just doesn't mess with her. The older bitch that is deceased may have growled at her a couple of times if she was being too boisterous but thats about it. Maybe that was enough to set her off and now she feels she must defend her top dog status. Thanks all! Edited March 21, 2016 by jezebeldobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) The only time I have seen an analogous situation it didn't end well. It was not your breed (not mine either) but it sounds similar. I think this kind of aggression can run in lines and is very hard to handle in a multi dog household. A full vet check by a vet behaviourist would be the first step I would take in case there is something medical underlying it and being missed, but otherwise I think you are are going to have to manage her for her lifetime or make a very hard decision. Some bitches just seem to want to be the only female in the pack. I feel for you, I have run multiple girls together for years without any issues and it would be devastating to have this issue arise. Edited to add a last thought, there is research which shows that in agressive bitches desexing can make agression worse, so maybe hormonal therapies might help, I don't know. Edited March 21, 2016 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezebeldobe Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 @Diva Thanks for your response. Its extremely hard but it happens I guess. Vet and behaviorist it is. I would love to know WHY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezebeldobe Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Thank you very much for the rec! I will give them a call tomorrow :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Alpha bitches can happen in any breed. Challenging a 13 y.o. at age 4 is typical of an alpha bitch, I'm so sorry that this turned out so sadly. They are usually tolerant of bitches outside of their own home. Sometimes an alpha bitch will accept a submissive one on the household but two alpha bitches together does not work and sometimes the submissive one will suddenly decide not to be submissive any more, and the cycle starts again. Vet plus behaviourist yes to rule out any medical issues, but in my experience, alpha bitches simply will not tolerate other bitches in their household. So it is either resign yourself to keeping her separated from any other adult bitches in your household or rehoming her as an only dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I had two Dobe bitches grandmother/granddaughter. Everything was fine until they were 8 and 2. There was some minor body language issues but no growls etc. It culminated in them both trying to cock their leg on the same thing at the same time and then it blew up. Young dog tried to kill old dog, luckily old dog was wearing an extended neck coat, which was shredded. The old girl also wore a basket muzzle when out as she had had 3 gastric surgeries and lost the ability to tell when she was full and had pica. I do believe the fact that she couldn't fight back and get her teeth in helped to save her life. I got to them within minutes and when I roared the young one backed off and I grabbed the old girl and threw her in the house, shut the door and locked the young one in the dog run. My old girl hated her litter sisters but was not too worried about other bitches. As my younger bitch got older she thought she was vastly superior to just about all dogs, didn't fight as her ice queen look was enough for any dog. Was fantastic with pups and young dogs and good with other breeds, not so good with Dobe bitches, but wasn't a raving loonie. I kept mine separate until my old girl died at nearly 12. It was a bit hard as if the wrong thing was done it could have been a disaster. I was the only one that fed and moved them around etc unless specifically organised. I do have to say the pressure relief when I didn't have to do it was rather large. Yes I could have rehomed, but we live on acerage and I could run them separately. I could walk them together and they would ignore each other but never ever would I leave them alone, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 My breeder told me and I have to agree, once a Dobe bitch dislikes another bitch, thats it. They will never get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezebeldobe Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Ososwift thanks for your story. Sounds very similar. I have also heard that sentiment and I'm inclined to agree. I find it puzzling that neither of my breeders educated me about SSA in the dobe. I have done my research but assumed that with well bred girls and training it may not happen to me (HAHA-I was wrong). I am not set up on an acreage nor do I have proper kennels or lots of space like a lot of dog enthusiasts so I am finding it slightly unfair on both my girls to be living like this at the moment but will start with the vet and go from there. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I am surprised you didn't have any education regarding bitches from your breeders either. I know some breeders who bitches get along, but they generally ran them in male female pairs and many had bitches who would try to kill each other. When the breeder had my older bitch before she retired and came to me, had her sister as well. They always ensured there was two gates/fences/doors between her and her sister at all times. They would hunt each other and yes one would have died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Could you look at rehoming the younger dog? Sounds like the older one will be fine on her own and can then have all the attention to herself. And the younger one would be easier and safer to rehome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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