Article :

[persephone]

LINK

excerpt :

And if you're depending on other dog-walkers to know whether their dogs are dangerous enough, I think you haven't considered that sometimes dogs are just unknowable--even yours!

I don't know for sure what's going on in Chance's head. I don't know what he does or does not like about other dogs, just like you don't know FOR SURE that your dog won't do something my dog doesn't like.

Once, two unleashed puppies came charging at me and Chance--leashed and Halti'd at my side--while a man followed behind them, yelling out to me, "Is he ok??" Meaning, I assume, would his unrestrained dogs survive the encounter they're about to foist on my dog? I was speechless at the time, but in the future, I will respond, "We're about to find out." Because I'm sorry, but that's the best I can do. I can't predict the outcome of that situation.

Letting your dog approach other dogs without asking first doesn't even give the other owners a chance to head off the encounter, or ask for it to proceed in a controlled manner. And it's putting your dog in a potentially life-threatening situation.

[Flashsmum]

So true!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I've got a collection of what I call "rude dog" articles for people who complain about some dog growling at their dog when their dog is "friendly" and "just wants to say hi".

Here's a couple to add to Persephone's. .

Suzanne Clothier's article "he just wants to say hi". Note the URL for this one has recently changed so if you have seen it before you might want to update your bookmark for it.

http://suzanneclothier.com/he-just-wants-to-say-hi#.Vt4RYXlf0kk

Why herding dogs hate Labs...

https://sarahwilsondogexpert.com/why-does-my-herding-dog-seem-to-hate-labs/

The Rude response to Rude from the Dog Snobs - your dog is being an a-hole and so are you.

http://thedogsnobs.com/2013/07/30/your-dog-isnt-being-friendly-hes-an-asshole-and-so-are-you/

[karen15]

After my staffy was attacked by a loose, unattended dog on a walk, I am paranoid about loose dogs coming anywhere near my dogs. I had the staffy at the beach one day and an offlead dog came racing towards us. I told it to get the hell away and its owner goes, your dog looks friendly. I said, he is, it's me you've got to worry about! I am very angry when dogs rush my animals and that seems to make their owners think twice. I always step in front of rushing dogs so mine are behind me. That generally seems to bring them up.

A classic was riding my nervy horse one day and an off leash dog starts heading towards us, owner trailing behind. My horse was getting worried so I gave him a pat and said it's ok, if it runs at you you can kill it..... Never seen a dog get put on a lead so fast.

[Little Gifts]

I loved that first article! Peiradise used to have 'peinics' at a small off leash dog park near the water. At one of my early peinics there were probably around 30 pei there most who had never met each other before. There was not one scuffle or fight, even when treats were being doled out. I was amazed because some people are wary of pei and think they are an aggressive breed. I think the reason there were no fights is that pei can be so focussed on their owners that they don't give a toss about the other dogs around them so there is none of the carry on of rude, unsocialised dogs invading each other's space. They just go about their business sniffing and exploring (while keeping one eye on where their humans are) and should they bump into another pei it is like "Whoops sorry about that! My bad! After you!" When my pei plays with my stafford they are equally crazy, bouncing off furniture and flying over stairs while doing zoomies and covering each other in slag from bitey face, so it's not like they don't contain the potential to be in your face and over exuberant. They just choose to do that kind of thing with friends and not strangers! Oh and I don't think I've never seen a pei try to air hump another dog either.

I think a lot of dog owners can't tell the difference between play and rude behaviour. Probably because they let their dog off the leash the minute they arrived at the park and are never close enough to it to correct bite inciting behaviour. I will say that if I had a dog who was a rusher, always running to 'meet' strange dogs then that dog would not be going to an off leash park until I had that behaviour under control. I never even let mine off leash until I've sussed out who else is in the park and where they are. Why can't other dog owners exhibit some basic sensibility too?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I can't tell the difference between a dog charging up to be friendly and one charging up to start a fight. My dog can't either.

We've got a problem choc lab visiting our park just on or after dusk and it charges across the ovals and starts fights. And it's one of a squillion dark coloured labs that visit there and the only one that is mean and let off lead. Tho it doesn't get off lead when I'm there any more.

That owner was too far away to even yell "Bad Idea" at. I grabbed her dog, and passed mine off to one of my friends.

Often my dog will be with me and my friends which is a very mixed looking group of people and dogs including some poodle crosses and small dogs and big dogs. Maybe some people think it's ok to let their dog barge up to an established "pack" of doggy friends.

The little dogs in this group will go after any big dog that approaches and often my medium big dog - wants to help. Trouble is - nobody takes the little dogs seriously but my dog - on behalf of her doggy friends, she can and does drive off the big dog if I don't see it coming first and catch her. And then she goes mental because she must save her friends and can't.

[Canisbellum]

I just had some big hound come charging us at the beach, I had my 2 on leash and had made hand signals several times to no avail so I had Jonah between my legs and started shouting no at the thing and making stop hand gestures when it started charging. That got some attention and I then had Jonah going Cujo between my legs and this dog doing what it could to get to him with the owner running around like a headless chook trying to catch it. Eventually disaster was averted but it's just more reinforcement for Jonah's behaviour. I wish the owner had paid attention to me and his dog instead of wool gathering

[PossumCorner]

Oh Canetoad, I've looked at your recent dog-shots and just thought oh hell, sooner or later this doesn't go well. Glad no bark off this time, as if you're not going though enough of the hard yards without coping with the no-idea dog owners.

Perseph do you ever take the dogs for their walk and think thank you lord for all this space around us and no dog-walking trauma like the daily suburban gauntlet brings on. I do, or at least I did, now Frodo and Rheneas are too old to go walks, but they and Piper had three or four magical years here of joyous freedom with no risk, it was bliss.

Part reason we moved to semi remote, with all its drawbacks, was our fed-up-ness, I think that's a word, with the whole "other dogs thing" in outer suburbs. Other reasons to move added up to the decision, but the dogs were the centre of it and the best decision ever.

LittleGifts, love your "peinics" description.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Sometimes I miss living out rural never had any dog walking issues because rarely ever saw another dog! And could see them ages off, but in city you can't see far.

But now...dogs off lead everywhere! And most are not controlled no matter what the owners claim. Especially in ON lead areas and paths where I want to walk in peace. I have to train the dog up to be 150% :/

I don't expect her not to react if physically attacked but I want her to stay calm and not retaliate if something rushes us or is rude or is following and barking its head off. And that is very hard to teach but will keep aiming towards that.

Keep wishing I had gotten a place even further out. One day a hidden little house out in bush for weekend trips ;-;

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

This came by on my FB feed recently... seems apt too.

But most of my FB friends have a clue when it comes to dog manners.

[Canisbellum]

Oh Canetoad, I've looked at your recent dog-shots and just thought oh hell, sooner or later this doesn't go well. Glad no bark off this time, as if you're not going though enough of the hard yards without coping with the no-idea dog owners.

Perseph do you ever take the dogs for their walk and think thank you lord for all this space around us and no dog-walking trauma like the daily suburban gauntlet brings on. I do, or at least I did, now Frodo and Rheneas are too old to go walks, but they and Piper had three or four magical years here of joyous freedom with no risk, it was bliss.

Part reason we moved to semi remote, with all its drawbacks, was our fed-up-ness, I think that's a word, with the whole "other dogs thing" in outer suburbs. Other reasons to move added up to the decision, but the dogs were the centre of it and the best decision ever.

LittleGifts, love your "peinics" description.

I have avoiding dogs for nearly 2 years now but I can't in Perth there are dogs everywhere we go so he needs to get used to being around other dogs. At the beach I put them on leads so they can't do the running up and make them sit and wait calmly for the other dog to either pass or approach. He is ok if they come up calmly like at the big dog park, he will growl a bit if they start moving quickly and when he has sniffed everything he will try and play with the dogs running around and that is where he needs lots of supervision.

It is stressful but I don't really have any other options around here and he is doing very well by his standards.

[Papillon Kisses]

Persephone's link was posted today on a Facebook group I'm apart of. Oh. My. Goodness. Comments such as these: "If you don't want to be social then don't own a social breed or any pet really."

Wow. Let me count the ways that person has it wrong...

[corvus]

I can't tell the difference between a dog charging up to be friendly and one charging up to start a fight. My dog can't either.

I can, and so can my dogs. It is pretty easy. One has a stupid grin on their face and has more air with each bound than they need and the other has their head low and no excess movement. The really hard distinction to make is between the dogs that are bluffing and will pull up at the last moment and the dogs that are not bluffing. My dogs pick bluffers more successfully than I do, but you can bet they have a good shake off when it's all over. They are not confident everything is going to be okay. We have fortunately never faced a non-bluffer off leash that I know of, but there are some dogs that provoke my dogs to hide behind my legs rather than stand their ground. I don't know if they are real non-bluffers, but I'm not gonna find out.

Nonetheless, whatever the dog's intentions, it's not very considerate. As you note, not everyone can tell the difference, and even a rolling lope with plastered stupid grin can be interpreted as threatening by a dog that is not experienced. In fact, it is considered threatening by my experienced vallhund who does not like to be buffeted by big, boisterous, friendly dogs. It's also probably one of the hardest things for the average dog owner to train out of their dog, especially if they are regular dog park goers. You have to understand the dog's motivations and the function of their behaviour and role of arousal, and it helps a lot to understand learning theory pretty well.

I actually have never met a pei that doesn't have a hair trigger, but there you go.

[persephone]

Perseph do you ever take the dogs for their walk and think thank you lord for all this space around us and no dog-walking trauma like the daily suburban gauntlet brings on.

Oh lord YES!! Occasionally friends will bring a dog to visit - but most folks know that our dogs usually react pretty strongly to strange dogs ...

many many years ago in teh City subbubs it was when dogs were allowed offlead most places ..incl treasury gardens in melbourne ... there was the odd attack , but it seems nowhere like it is now .Gosh ..I used to walk at 5:30 am ..with a dog or two and a cat , most times . ( on the short walks) NO WAY. would I attempt that these days .

Sometimes Guide dogs in training would get charged - often then bitten .. but it was definitely not the norm ...and we would laugh at dogs who used to ambush us from behind big fences .

[Kirislin]

My whippet Penny was attacked by a dog running loose with it's lead dragging on the ground and a little boy running after it. When the mother and child finally caught up she tried to blame me for having Penny on a a lead!

I've still got the vets bill on the fridge, if I ever see that cow of a woman I'll present it to her.

And how many times have you heard the suprised owner of the dog who's just attacked go "oooooh he's never done that before!"

Edited March 9, 2016 by Kirislin

[persephone]

And how many times have you heard the suprised owner of the dog who's just attacked go "oooooh he's never done that before!"

I am one who's said that on occasion !! Surprised and shocked me no end .

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I've had someone yell at me - has your dog done that before and I'm going erm...

That was after she scolded a poodle cross that was on lead (how embarrassment) and chased it around the owner until the owner was tied up and the poodle cross ran out of lead and I caught my evil hound.

I tried to apologise but couldn't get a word in because the owner was yelling so much abuse at me. I think we scared him but his dog was fine, no marks or bruises nothing. I got someone else to go check them for me.

I had her on lead but she ripped the lead out of my hand. Sigh. I didn't see him coming cos he went round behind me but evil hound noticed. If I had seen him coming she never would have pulled free.

She's been a lot better since then but not perfect.

This morning a border terrier overstepped her idea of polite and she scolded it.

The owner said hey it's ok he needs scolding and I said - I don't want her practicing that behaviour because all dogs will cop it not just that owner's.

What I was thinking was you #*($*)&& TRAIN YOUR DOG. Don't expect my dog to do it for you.

[kami]

I missed this thread! Here is a recent link along the same lines from dogster from the perspective of a person with a reactive dog on 'friendly' dogs and uncooperative humans. A good read for those without a reactive dog (or with one).

Dogster article

I do not like off lead dogs approaching Annie and I or Rusty on lead. I hate even more when people attempt to pat Annie without asking, as she is highly nervous (Anyone can put Rusty - such a chilled out boy). They interpret her submissive over the top enthusiasm as enjoyment when actually it is anxiety and fear based (if I am really really submissive and nice to you maybe you won't hurt me? Is how our vet described her). All it does is reinforce undesirable behaviour.

People really shouldn't assume that a strange dog is friendly or that they should touch someone elses property without asking - just like they wouldn't go hug a strange human without getting to know them first.