Pet Insurance - Gimic?

[coogie]

Insurance has been a godsend for us, Issy has had luxating patella surgery, a femoral head ostectomy and more recently cancer treatment including radiation, she has to have scans every few months for the next two years, so far we have had around $27,000.00 dollars back for her treatment. Each claim has taken less than 6 weeks and we have only been questioned once when she was bitten by an unknown dog and the company wanted further details, but paid promptly on receiving them. We have paid about $8400.00 in premiums so far for her so it has been a very good return. Her premiums have not jumped significantly, although her cover has now dropped to 80% as an older dog.

We have probably paid the same amount out for Alf but got back less than $5000 but funnily enough I prefer this because it means he has been a healthy boy! After our experience I will always insure.

[minxy]

With ACL surgery, patella surgery, lupus etc it's certainly been worth it for us. We spend about $100 a week just on meds for Kyojin's lupus and with only one income now, having pet insurance really helps. Cost a few grand just to diagnose him, as well as about $16k for his two surgeries.

Kyojin looks like a beautiful dog, and sounds like the insurance has helped you a lot. Could I ask, as it sounds like you are in a good position to answer some questions I had:

* Have your premiums seen much of a change each year, especially in years after making large claims (how long has Kyojin's been insured for)?

* With the two surgeries, how long was it before the claim was approved and you were able to recoup the funds?

Cheers,

Camo

Thank you, he's a very sweet boy.

Our premiums have gone up each year but it says it's based on his breed and age not based on us making claims. I am not sure how much it's been each year but we've definitely found it to be worth it. If I can find our most recent letters I'll try and see how it compares to our cat who hasn't had any claims before.

Medibank are super quick and easy to deal with. Usually takes a few days for them to receive the claim from our vets, they send us a text to let us know they've received it and are processing it, and then maaaybe up to a week later we've got the money, usually it's only a couple of days from when they receive our forms. As they pay via bank transfer it's a pretty quick process. They used to do cheques when we first claimed so that would take an extra week or so.

We've had pet insurance since we first got him (5 years ago) as my sister had a Rottie years ago that cost her tens of thousands of dollars as we weren't aware of pet insurance back then, so I wasn't taking any chances this time.

[CHA]

I don't have it, and after 40 years of dog ownership, certainly are not out of pocket. Touch wood....

[alpha bet]

I am the same as Cha... many years, many dogs and never paid out for insurance. I deposit $200 a month into a bank account - in the last 8 years that came to over $24,000.

Just consider all the people here who have stated how much their insurance companies have paid out for claims goes to show how many people are paying for insurance they haven't used. After all Insurance companies are not going to provide insurance if they don't make a profit. Personally feel that the vets are the big winners here and certainly the person who said they paid $24,000 for their dogs antivenin treatment is OUTRAGEOUS - the absolute most I have hear for a large dog treatment was just under $5,000.

Vet prices seem to be increasing but I have to question is this because they think they can encourage people to take out insurance to cover these increases.

[Xyz]

I also was looking into this recently. Here are some issues I found:

* No upfront approval. This means firstly you need to come up with the money for the vet bill. My concern for a low income person in this situation, is how do you fund the surgery during the time you wait to be approved and reimbursed. There are examples of claims being denied when the person was sure it would be approved, so what happens when you find the funds short term and then find out that the insurance company is now refusing the claim.

* Policies are only for a one year period. This means the insurance companies can make changes to the policy that you may not have anticipated when taking out the policy, this might include premium increases and also condition changes. Although you can go to their website and determine what your dog will cost to insure for the first year, there are many complaints regarding extraordinary increases in premiums as well as changes to policies (such as older dogs previously being reimbursed 85% new policies coming out changing that to 70%). My concerns are what happens when the insurer decides to increase the premium after I make a claim regarding a potentially ongoing condition. I can't change ensurers as this would then be a pre-existing condition, worst still, once my dog hits 9 years old, I only have 2 choices, continue to pay the same insurer regardless of how the policy might change each year and how much they might charge, or no longer have insurance (you can't take out insurance with any company for a dog over 9 years).

* There are many companies offering insurance, but only currently 2 underwriters for pet insurance. Is this enough for healthy competition?

* Waiting Periods, Exclusions and Bilateral Conditions. The Checkout did a good segment on this:

They do end by saying that "pet insurance still might be the best option, because if you can't afford a massive vet bill..." you may have to put the pet down. Again I refer back to my initial point of No Upfront Approval. For me, pet insurance is about removing the financial aspect of the decision of if to treat, but realistically this remains, as a consideration, at best for short term (if the claim is later approved), and at worst for the long term (if the claim eventually gets denied).

With all that said, I am still considering insurance, but I will likely take out insurance for the first 2 years (hoping any conditions present themselves in that time, but not before the waiting period ends). Although the premiums are fairly low for the first 2 years, I intend to put more aside in my home loan, after the 2 years, I intend to drop the insurance, and self fund (put funds aside every week).

I don't think it is a gimic, it is serious business, doing the math, I came up with premium payments being in the vicinity of $14000, and that was based on the insurer being perhaps more reasonable with premium rises than some have mentioned as the dog ages or claims are made. There are certainly stories were this $14000 is a drop in the ocean compared to some vet bills, but there are equally a lot of stories were you would think a person's claim would have been approved and it wasn't. In my case I always have 2 dogs, so to insure means doubling that figure, if I consider the life of a dog and the likely term of my life, now your talking about multiplying that by 4 or more and add to that the effect of compound interest this is a pretty powerful sum of money, especially if it is invested wisely.

Just some food for thought.

Cheers,

Camo

[Xyz]

Just regarding the upfront payment required by vets, some third party loan options like Vetpay offer interest free periods exactly for this reason. The only out of pocket is a $35 application fee if it is paid in full in (I think) 30 days.

Certainly some of the policies offer a 'pre-approval' so you can be guaranteed to be reimbursed. Of course this will not work For an emergency.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Xyz

[denali]

Yes, same as TSD, with 3 dogs and one being a rescue with some exclusions it just wasn't worth it to me. I self insure and put money away into a pet account.

Kokoda was insured originally but i paid about $2k in insurance and got nothing for it, so decided not to when the others came along.

Though- i do also work in a vet clinic so get discounted everything, not that my pets have needed it yet *touch wood.*

Insurance is a gamble really and sometimes it pays off completely!

[Canisbellum]

With a Shar Pei I think insurance is a must I dont have insurance on my Kelpie X but am probably going to do it. I have only claimed once for Jonah and got the money back quickly from PetPlan.

[camo]

With ACL surgery, patella surgery, lupus etc it's certainly been worth it for us. We spend about $100 a week just on meds for Kyojin's lupus and with only one income now, having pet insurance really helps. Cost a few grand just to diagnose him, as well as about $16k for his two surgeries.

Kyojin looks like a beautiful dog, and sounds like the insurance has helped you a lot. Could I ask, as it sounds like you are in a good position to answer some questions I had:

* Have your premiums seen much of a change each year, especially in years after making large claims (how long has Kyojin's been insured for)?

* With the two surgeries, how long was it before the claim was approved and you were able to recoup the funds?

Cheers,

Camo

Thank you, he's a very sweet boy.

Our premiums have gone up each year but it says it's based on his breed and age not based on us making claims. I am not sure how much it's been each year but we've definitely found it to be worth it. If I can find our most recent letters I'll try and see how it compares to our cat who hasn't had any claims before.

Medibank are super quick and easy to deal with. Usually takes a few days for them to receive the claim from our vets, they send us a text to let us know they've received it and are processing it, and then maaaybe up to a week later we've got the money, usually it's only a couple of days from when they receive our forms. As they pay via bank transfer it's a pretty quick process. They used to do cheques when we first claimed so that would take an extra week or so.

We've had pet insurance since we first got him (5 years ago) as my sister had a Rottie years ago that cost her tens of thousands of dollars as we weren't aware of pet insurance back then, so I wasn't taking any chances this time.

Thank you for your reply, sounds like your premiums haven't shifted greatly, or at least not noticeably, so that is a good thing. It would be interesting to know how your fortnightly payments compare to a quote to sign up a new dog of Kyojin's age, and location. This is perhaps my biggest unknown, the unknown future premium, when I discussed it with the insurance companies, they were very vague on what sort of premium I might expect in the future, they did say that looking at the website and changing the age was not an accurate way, but suggested they couldn't give me more accurate estimates, stating it depended on a number of factors, and that included previous claims. I did some calculations based on changing the age of the dog in the website to estimate what I might expect to pay over the life of the dog, but I suspect this is not a true reflection (an underestimate), and there are no figures available once the dog turns 9 (there have been some stories of premiums doubling at 9 years).

Just regarding the upfront payment required by vets, some third party loan options like Vetpay offer interest free periods exactly for this reason. The only out of pocket is a $35 application fee if it is paid in full in (I think) 30 days.

Certainly some of the policies offer a 'pre-approval' so you can be guaranteed to be reimbursed. Of course this will not work For an emergency.

This is perhaps the crux of the matter. It's great they offer interest free, but what happens when the claim is denied. Without pre-approval, if you can't afford it, it's potentially a very slippery slope going for something like Vetpay, or heaven forbid the rabbit or wizard.

When you say "some policies offer pre-approval", that is very interesting, and perhaps the biggest deciding factor. I looked at quite a few, and none I found offered pre-approval, I rang a few to check and they all said as part of the claim you had to provide not only the invoice, but payment receipt, so definitely no pre-approval with those ones. Could you share which ones offer pre-approval, that for me would make a big difference?

Cheers,

Camo

Edited February 23, 2016 by camo

[Xyz]

I know petplan does, I'll ask the receptionists at work as they deal with the paperwork!

Edited- think RSPCA and Woolworths too!

Edited February 23, 2016 by Xyz

[Ruffles]

Personally feel that the vets are the big winners here and certainly the person who said they paid $24,000 for their dogs antivenin treatment is OUTRAGEOUS - the absolute most I have hear for a large dog treatment was just under $5,000.

I work at the clinic where she was treated, the costs were not outrageous. This was not a 'give two vials of antivenom and go home' situation. She required 3 vials, Mechanical Ventilation for 3 days as she was unable to breath on her own due to paresis, and myopathy, then another 5 days of supplemental oxygen therapy as she had aspiration pneumonia from vomiting whilst seizuring whilst unconscious! A blood transfusion, constant glucose supplementation for 8 days, naso-gastric feeding after she lost 5kgs and was so mentally incapacitated that she could not feed herself, not to mention the copious amounts of blood tests, pain medications and around the clock care she was receiving. She was not expected to make it and it was the worst envenomation they had seen. I'm thankful they are there to provide the amazing service they do.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Ruffles

[Xyz]

Yay Ruffles, thanks for being part of that team!

Bet the owners didn't think it was outragoeous when their (obviously) precious pooch went home with them!!

[Ruffles]

Yay Ruffles, thanks for being part of that team!

Bet the owners didn't think it was outragoeous when their (obviously) precious pooch went home with them!!

It was my dog :)

[SchnauzerMax]

Yay Ruffles, thanks for being part of that team!

Bet the owners didn't think it was outragoeous when their (obviously) precious pooch went home with them!!

It was my dog :)

And she is back to normal now?

[Ruffles]

She has recovered from the snake bite. But she has a secondary issue because of/or it was underlying.

And she does have some neurological deficits from a bleed in the brain they think but it just makes her clumsy.

[Xyz]

Oh Ruffles thank god she's ok. Clumsy you can live with! Thank god you were in the situation to give her the best care❤️

Hope she comes good soon.

One of mine was bitten last week, she was almost the 2 vials and go home. She was totally collapsed and obtunded when my husband got home, 45 minutes to the vet (my work), 2 vials of antivenin and was walking in a few hours. 48 hours on ivf to maintain her kidneys and just like a new dog!

[Ruffles]

Yep, that tends to be the standard outcome when caught early. You are lucky :) glad she's ok!

[FrodofromAus]

Thanks for responses! Definitely sounds like something to seriously consider. Thanks westiemum for the links will have a look at it. Since my original post this morning i have found out that our lil guy has a heart murmer so not sure if he would get cover. Something I'll look into

He will likely get cover but the heart murmur will need to be declared and no doubt will be a specific exclusion on the policy. I'd still try and insure him ASAP.

The heart murmur will be excluded.

Cool thanks. Will do!!!

[FrodofromAus]

Camo you have presented very well understood information for those reading this thread.

AA long time advocate of pet insurance (the concept whilst not supporting any one product) the first company that has come to my attention is Petplan. Sadly I am a customer of theirs with one of my dogs. Petplan did a major overhaul of policies in 2014 and whilst telling their past customers how wizz bang it was and how many better off they are........well I did a review on my cancer forum. I put the old policy side by side with the new policy and yes it was better but NOT FOR THE CLIENT but for Petplan.

A couple of the changes included that when you claim for alternative medicine they have capped it at $2000. In the past they included it in the total amount you could claim each year. Her's the best bit. Unless the alternative treatment is physiotherapy you pay the excess twice. Thats right. You pay one excess for the vet and another if you claim alternative. Another change was they use to pay for $1000 for death from injury. Now it is an additional extra to be able to claim $1500 for deal from illness or injury. Two of the changes. And for this they whacked up the policies in many cases by 100%. Their facebook page was flooded with complaints at the time but low and behold you cant post to their page anymore. But the good news is people are still having their say by way of review. Of 225 reviews 178 of them rate them as horrible or bad.

Another piece of info on Petplan is that they are the only company in Australia who still send cheques. They are unable to make payment direct into your bank. Out of the other 20 companies under the Petsure brand at the moment 14 of them allow online claims. You go to the vet, get a copy of the consult report and payment receipt, come home lodge on line and away you go. Petsure have assured me the other brands will be online soon with this claim process. Petplan has no intention at this time to either come online for claims or to change from sending cheques.

Another thing not widely promoted by Petplan is once your dog reaches ten they only pay 65% of the claim. You also pay an excess. In my case the excess is $150. Until recently my dog had never had a claim with Petplan so I was not pinged for excessive claims. My experience of this claim has been dreadful. My cancer facebook page has made two posts about it so far. The first time I took my dog to the vet was 29 January 2016. 4 vet visits and 3 physio visits I am yet to receive any money back as the cheques according to them have been received but I guess have gone via USA. Actually to be exact I did receive one cheque for $209 for the rehab BUT even though in my post I reported that was the only cheque I received to date, they cancelled that cheque and reissued it. Still nothing is forthcoming. Why did they cancel???? They got confused between a previous email of several days before saying I am still waiting and the Post of several days later. They even included my post (as I tagged them) in the email. I guess they didnt read it properly

Why did I stay with Petplan in 2014???? Well like many people who got done over, I had a dog that was too old to shift companies. He had no claim history BUT once a dog reaches 9 with most companies they wont take them on for illness only accident. In many cases it is when you dog gets older you might be more likely to make claims.

The moral of this is you must choose wisely. Once your dog has had ANY sort of claim it is hard to jump ship unless you are prepared to have that part of the previous claim as an exclusion. Petsure products once you join with them after two years will allow a review of that exclusion. Not sure on numbers how many exclusions get removed. I had one for another dog on a Petsure product that was excluded for dog fights. I had a rescue staying with me that bopped my dog on the ear and there was a bit of blood so I attended the vet. Due to a mistake by the vet who thought it was my other dog that did it, he ended up with this exclusion. To show you what that could of meant here is a scenario. I am out walking my dog and another dog races out of some driveway and mauls my dog who is minding his business. My insurance company would not pay for my dogs injuries due to this exclusion. It was a broad exclusion that meant all dog fights. It did not say if Farrell bopps Bones. Therefore I could have been severely penalised due to this exclusion.

Buyer be warned but I am going to be posting a lot more insurance warning to my followers and all companies are on notice I will go public. It is important our pets get good vet care and many people have insurance for just that. As consumers we get tired of policies changing and ending up in a worse off position. The only way to make changes is by numbers.