Meg_1985 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Hi, i just wanted some opinions on what coloured sire to get for our Blue English Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I have joined Dogs NSW and I am committed to breeding healthy, happy pups. I am aware that the blue is a recessive gene. By breeding a blue to a blue pied would that result in blue pied pups or a mixture of the two? I have also undertaken some research and understand that by buying a red sire this would create a stronger blood line thus ensuring healthier pups. Is this true? Our dam is HC and L2HGA tested. I won't be buying a male for at least 18 months but just wanted to do as much research as possible. Any advice you can give would be much appreciated. Edited February 5, 2016 by Meg_1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Surely there is more to be concerned about than colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I'd not be doubling up on dilutes in this breed but you really need the advice of experienced SBT people. You don't need to buy a sire - use a great dog someone else owns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Surely there is more to be concerned about than colour. In this case it is very wise the OP is very much concerned with colour. We've all groaned at the current trend for blues and the health consequences that can go with them. Good on the OP for at least trying to understand what is good practice for the sake of the breed. Edited February 5, 2016 by blinkblink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Talk to your dog's breeder? and , yes ... use a stud dog, or purchase semen for an AI . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Hi, i just wanted some opinions on what coloured sire to get for our Blue English Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I have joined Dogs NSW and I am committed to breeding healthy, happy pups. I am aware that the blue is a recessive gene. By breeding a blue to a blue pied would that result in blue pied pups or a mixture of the two? I have also undertaken some research and understand that by buying a red sire this would create a stronger blood line thus ensuring healthier pups. Is this true? Our dam is HC and L2HGA tested. I won't be buying a male for at least 18 months but just wanted to do as much research as possible. Any advice you can give would be much appreciated. Thank you for your determination to breed happy, healthy pups. Because your bitch is a dilute colour in this breed you DO need to be concerned about the colour of any chosen mate. If you avoid blue, blue pied, fawn and fawn pied sires( all dilute colours) then you have an excellent chance of avoiding producing puppies with alopecia or immune system problems. Because your bitch is a dilute colour, you would also be wise to avoid sires which have a dilute coloured parent but are not dilute themselves. Once you know what colours not to use, then your selection of a sire should revolve around finding the dog that has the features you most wish your puppies to have and that has excellent qualities in areas where your own bitch may be weak. No dog or bitch is 100% perfect and it is important not to double up on weak traits. For example if your bitch doesn't have the correct black nose leather of a good SBT then be sure you select a sire which does. As beginning breeder, you are no doubt aware that there is a LOT to learn and I would advise you to join the SBT breed club in your state. You can meet a lot of experienced breeders and also find information on a lot of prospective sires. I would recommend that, rather than acquiring your own male and finding all the problems which may happen when one entire male and one entire female share the same home, you contract to use an outside male for the breeding. Plus there are advantages in using an outside male, the foremost of which is being abe to use a different male for a subsequent breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Talk to your dog's breeder? and , yes ... use a stud dog, or purchase semen for an AI . I'm thinking there most likely not much help and breed blues after all no real breeder breeds blue by choice . To the OP will you be showing your girl ? Or is your plan just to bred pups .i only ask as it will d termite who will sell you a male or allow there dogs at stud especially given how many Staffies are just breed and for colour because as already mentioned colour is last on the list although most would not have purchased a blue to breed with. You also need to assess her faults and determine what you need in a male to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Use the best dog you can find in terms of type, temperament , structure and soundness , that is clear of L2-HGA & HC and does not have any blue behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg_1985 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Thank you for your all of your advice. It was very helpful. I won't be showing her as she is a blue and not a recognised colour. I checked her for temperament, structure, soundness and genetic fault. The breeder I got her from just bred blues and didnt seem interested in discussing genetic diversity. I won't be jumping on the current trend for breeding blue on blue for colours sake so I will definitely look into the stud option with no blue behind it and assess what traits I need for stinger pups. I still have a lot to learn and will explore all avenues to ensure I know as much possible before I start breeding. Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Blue is a recognized colour in the SBT standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Blue is a recognized colour in the SBT standard. But they must have a black nose... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hi Meg, I have a few concerns based on what you have posted so far but pleased to see that you have joined your state control. Since it is your intention to breed can I suggest that first and foremost you access the breed standard for Staffordshire Bull Terriers, note that I have not used English in the name. There are Staffordshire Bull Terriers and there are American Staffordshires. You then need to understand what the terms the standard uses to describe the breed actually mean. The standard will also tell you what colours are allowed as well as those that are not. I am also concerned that your breeder only breeds blues and was not interested in discussing genetics in regards to colour and problems associated with using dogs with dilute colour genes. I assume you have the pedigree certificate and that your bitch is on the main, may be used in conformation shows and for breeding. That you were of the understanding that blues can not be shown adds to my concerns regarding this dog and what you have been told. Best wishes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Blue is a recognized colour in the SBT standard. But they must have a black nose... T. And genetically, this is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaz Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Thank you for your all of your advice. It was very helpful. I won't be showing her as she is a blue and not a recognised colour. I checked her for temperament, structure, soundness and genetic fault. The breeder I got her from just bred blues and didnt seem interested in discussing genetic diversity. I won't be jumping on the current trend for breeding blue on blue for colours sake so I will definitely look into the stud option with no blue behind it and assess what traits I need for stinger pups. I still have a lot to learn and will explore all avenues to ensure I know as much possible before I start breeding. Thank you again. What is driving you to breed, to make money or to enhance the status of the breed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Without sounding mean, if your breeder only bred for colour how do you know your bitch is worth breeding from? If they took nothing else into account she may have no redeeming features to pass on. I would go to a show and see what good SBT look like and compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Yes, visiting some shows would be a good idea. It sounds like you are trying to do the right thing, maybe you could introduce yourself to some breeders at shows and find someone who may be willing to mentor you and assess your bitch? Keep in mind that, considering where she's come from (a blue-only breeder who seems to not be very interested in the quality of the breed) you may find it would be best to keep your current girl as a loving pet, and start with a show dog from someone who can mentor and guide you. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg_1985 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 I read the breed standards and she is beautiful and I made sure her bloodline of blue wasn't too long to negate genetic fault. My mum was an RSPCA foster carer while I was a child and I have been too for many years and understand that breeding is for the future of a breed not for colour. We really wanted a blue but I'm not breeding for blues and will definitely stud with a strong colour with a great disposition, form and feature. Including DNA testing and HC and L2HGA testing. That you again everyone who replied. I will continue to research and talk to as many breeders as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I read the breed standards and she is beautiful and I made sure her bloodline of blue wasn't too long to negate genetic fault. My mum was an RSPCA foster carer while I was a child and I have been too for many years and understand that breeding is for the future of a breed not for colour. We really wanted a blue but I'm not breeding for blues and will definitely stud with a strong colour with a great disposition, form and feature. Including DNA testing and HC and L2HGA testing. That you again everyone who replied. I will continue to research and talk to as many breeders as I can. Agree - good on you for doing your research. My question for you is what are your bitch's faults? In my opinion this defines my breeding goals. I love my dogs so much it hurts and they are PERFECT but when it comes to breeding I need to understand what their faults are. Only then can I make a decision to breed at all. Let alone select a stud dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Hi Meg, There is a difference between having a dog/bitch that is beautiful and loveable, and having a dog that is "correct" in regards to conformation. Understanding the difference is critical in determining what can be corrected through the judicious use of appropriate dogs/bitches in your breeding program. You are not going to get everything "right" in one quick go. Understanding what you have got and what the potential for improvement is will allow you to determine you way forward over the long term. I believe a long term plan is critical to your intentions. You also need to understand that in some cases you will make "advances", at other times you will be taking a "backward" step. Don't be discouraged by reversals, try to identify the why and try another process. Get out and talk to breeders. Look at what is being put up at shows and try to understand why. Remember also a number of dogs are put up (IMO) because they show "more" of a desired trait rather than being "correct" in regards to the standard, or, they are handled by known faces. Good Luck, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) The breeder I got her from just bred blues and didnt seem interested in discussing genetic diversity. That really doesn't sound like a breeder Id be buying show/breeding potential dogs off Thank you for your all of your advice. It was very helpful. I won't be showing her as she is a blue and not a recognised colour. I checked her for temperament, structure, soundness and genetic fault. Do you mean the vet checked her? Edited February 8, 2016 by cannibalgoldfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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