quena Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Hi, There has been a number of breeders in New Zealand recently losing puppies, after using Oxyitoxin. After the first pup being born slow bitches eg 2 hours between pups they have given the injection, this never was the case years ago. Does anyone know if the drug has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Never had an issue with it, it's a valuable tool to have when whelping a litter and your vet is not available immediately. Like anything there are risks and it certainly should not be used by the inexperienced and without vet guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I suspect the long delay between puppies may be the cause of death, rather than the oxytocin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I suspect the long delay between puppies may be the cause of death, rather than the oxytocin. I'll second that opinion... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I will 3rd it. My bitch had two live pups, two hours later a dead pup. Two hours after that had Oxy injection, had one live pup, 30 minutes later another. The deadvpup died a few days before birth and had a deformity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It all depends on why you are using it. Its not as simple as - a couple of hours between puppies so give her a shot Its normal for bitches to take a rest during whelping and without the injection dogs can whelp puppies safely up to 36 hours after the first whelp is born. Fetuses require oxygen and attachment of the placenta to survive and giving oxy simply because its a long period between whelps can cause the placentas to detach .So you may get one or two pups being expelled quickly but the other puppies have a higher risk of dying from having fetal distress or asphyxia.If the bitch is resting and the puppies still inside her are paddling and kicking its much better to get out of the way and let nature do its job. Before you give a shot you should check that she has a ferguson reflex because oxy wont work if there is none. If there are contractions but they are weak this is an indication for use not just because its been longer than average between pups. Dont give it if there are no contractions or if there are hard contractions without producing a pup for a long period without ringing the vet and getting advice first. There are other management protocols to try before you start reaching for the oxy. Take her for a walk on a leash, really make her walk [up starirs , a bit of a jog etc] make sure she isnt being distracted or stressed ,turn out the lights, Allow the pups that have been born to nurse this stimulates natural production of the hormone. Stimulate the Ferguson reflex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallomph Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 My experience is with pigs, not dogs - but the principles are the same. 1. Oxy can make matters worse instead of better if you have a stuck pup. 2. 2nd what Steve said about causing detached placentas or sometimes bruises / clots in the umbilical cord. Oxy causes a "hard" contraction, rather than a natural series of waves. (Ask any woman who was given oxy during the birthing process!). 3. Therefore, you really need to know what you are doing. Even if it would be helpful, getting the dosage right for the weight of the bitch is critical. 4. Oxy dosages may vary between brand. Some brands have twice the concentration - therefore should be used at half the dose as other brands. You must read the label instructions! Overdosing can cause all kinds of problems - up to and including a prolapsed uterus. 5. Other things should be tried first - all of Steve's suggestions - plus - rubbing the teats or even milking the bitch (save the colostrum in case you need it for a slow starting pup) to stimulate natural oxytocin release, and getting her to lie down on her other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I pretty much agree with everyone else. I didn't feel 100% comfortable with giving oxy when the time came although I had it on hand. I gave calcium and did all the usual exercise with Em - two big boys born and then she shut up shop. I knew there were only 4 pups and didn't want to risk losing any so decided to take her to the vet. Ultrasound determined that the pups were ok but needed to come out sooner rather than later so it was IV oxy with C-section on standby. They popped out quick smart thankfully and I got my last born girly. In hindsight I'm glad I went the low risk route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 It's the usual drug story - an aid in the hands of knowledgeable people and a disaster in the hands of the ignorant. But the drug shouldn't be demonised because it is abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 More and more it is being recommended to use calcium during whelping rather than Oxy. I do think Oxy has been over used in some situations where it has done more harm than good. Used I the right place it can be useful. But it seems many are now jumping to use it when the birth is slow (when it may just be a whelping pause where the pups are still moving down into position and the bitch is taking a rest). If a pup is stuck too, as mentioned, it can do more arm than good as placentas separate and you have more chance of dead pups behind the stuck one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witheverythingiam Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 2. 2nd what Steve said about causing detached placentas or sometimes bruises / clots in the umbilical cord. Oxy causes a "hard" contraction, rather than a natural series of waves. (Ask any woman who was given oxy during the birthing process!). Yes - having had an all natural birth first time around, with normal contractions, compared to my 2nd, where I was given syntocinon, I will take the first option any day of the week thanks. Synthetic Oxytocin was the devil!!! I breed pedigree cats, and have never used Oxytocin, so cannot comment. Some have had very quick natural labours, others longer. I would always give oral calcium liquid a go before I'd even consider oxytocin inj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Yes - having had an all natural birth first time around, with normal contractions, compared to my 2nd, where I was given syntocinon, I will take the first option any day of the week thanks. Synthetic Oxytocin was the devil!!! Had retained placenta with child #2, effect of tablets given was the same, went into labour again every 4 hours LOL Long time ago but you never forget!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Are there risks with giving calcium and timing, state of puppies etc considerations like with Oxy? Or is it a fairly safe option to give if there has been a delay and you are unsure? Not that I'm planning to be in the position to use it anytime soon, just taking the opportunity to learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Are there risks with giving calcium and timing, state of puppies etc considerations like with Oxy? Or is it a fairly safe option to give if there has been a delay and you are unsure? Not that I'm planning to be in the position to use it anytime soon, just taking the opportunity to learn! The current recommendation is to give oral calcium after the first pup is born and then after each subsequent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thanks Rebanne. So it seems like it's helpful to the process even if there haven't been signs of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thanks Rebanne. So it seems like it's helpful to the process even if there haven't been signs of problems. Yes, calcium helps contract muscles. Lots of breeders also say give extra calcium if bitch is unsettled after pups are born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I have always been a BIG believer in calcium during whelping ... back in a previous life, whelping lab bitches , if there was a slacking off ..it would be LOTS of calcium , and a couple times running up/down about 5 stairs/steps . Very rarely failed :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) My link I always have this on hand Edited February 3, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Are there risks with giving calcium and timing, state of puppies etc considerations like with Oxy? Or is it a fairly safe option to give if there has been a delay and you are unsure? Not that I'm planning to be in the position to use it anytime soon, just taking the opportunity to learn! The current recommendation is to give oral calcium after the first pup is born and then after each subsequent one. I did this and it definitely helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Oxytocin/Syntocin is a fantastic drug, but as with any it is not without side effects or potential issues, especially if given at the wrong time. I have used Syntocin in conjunction with and under guidance of my vet and it caused no issues. Liquid calcium is very beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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