Angry And Helpless

[BarbedWire]

Willem: Turning this thread into an argument just for the sake of it is very insensitive and inappropriate. The OP posted because he/she was upset and wanted to know what others thought and wanted some support.

When someone keeps coming back to justify his/her position as you are doing makes me wonder if your dog behaves like the dog in the OP when it sees you and you need to explain its behaviour to expunge your own unease.

[MonElite]

I'm guessing that Willem wishes I had run to my car straight away to get the phone to call the owner. Say nothing, do nothing, just return the dog immediately and mind my own business.

That might be legally correct thing to do, but not morally. That's just my opinion.

In fact what I should have done is called a ranger to catch the dog and take it to the pound, but I'm a compassionate person and did what I thought was right by the dog.

I don't really need to explain myself and justify my actions. I believe the dog was mistreated by it's owner. I'm allowed to do that.

[MonElite]

...could it be that the way you asked him about the bad recall behaviour provoked his comment?

I haven't asked him about a bad recall (again you are assuming something), the dog had a good recall, when I called him at the beach, he came back straight away.

And I have asked him about the dog getting out, his fencing etc on the phone, before we actually met.

But when the dog came out of the car and cowered in the presence of the owner, then dropped to the ground and acted extremely scared I said - why is he like that?

Owner said - because he knows he is in trouble.

How would the dog "know" he is in trouble when his owner just appeared and just stood there? Took one step towards the dog. and a second before called him with a happy voice?

The dog was afraid of the owner, full stop. Not of a situation, not of a voice, not of anything that the owner displayed at the time.

I think that maybe you aren't familiar with a difference in the dogs body language of submission and fear. I am.

OH, I forgot, not a thank you for calling and returning the dog from the owner either!

[BlaznHotAussies]

Seriously Willem do you have to pick apart every single little thing someone says...on EVERY thread!? Do you have reading comprehension troubles and does that make it hard for you to figure out loosely used colloquial expressions?

Every damn time!!!

...if you don't like my comments...put me on the ignore list :D !

BTW: ....calling someone 'human trash' and accusing someone of 'severe animal cruelty' without evidence seems to be ok for you?...just little things?...oh well,....

A dog turning from happy & relaxed to terrified when its owner shows up? To me that suggests evidence enough...

And that's not what I'm referring to, it's you quizzing MonElite about how long she spent with the dog and the "delay" between calling the owner and dropping the dog off.

MonElite, good on you for getting the dog back to his owner promptly.

My BC once escaped (from 6-7ft fences!!!! We'd left for maybe an hour and a half for ice-cream, for the humans...not the dog - just for you Willem ) and it wasn't until the next day that we got a call (it was fairly late at night when we discovered him missing and then had walked & driven around the streets searching for him). Apparently they'd fed him & had him inside the house overnight and he'd made himself right at home. He was an extremely timid dog and when my husband went to pick him up, all he did was look at him from the person's bed he was snoozing on. strangest dog.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Scootaloo

[_PL_]

Geezus.........you've got nothing better to do then pick on an expression? I call it a day,. the rest of the day I did nothing so I call my 2 hours at the beach (partially with the dog around) a day.

How about you contribute to the question Ive asked, and if you don't want to, just leave.

it seems you use the words pretty loosely ...you asked for advice: accusing someone of 'belting his dog badly' just based on assumptions is a pretty hefty accusation and I (that's me) would be a little bit more careful regards choosing my words before making those kind of statements in the public!

...and if you don't like my advice: just put me on the ignore list :) !

But it's not advice is it Willem.

You have a pattern, you repeatedly take the opposing argument rather than allow someone to express an opinion. Maybe you're right, that doesn't mean continue with undermining and badgering someone into submission then telling them to ignore you is in any way a contribution to discussion.

When you finally get reported enough the moderators will step in and I for one won't miss your goading of members who innocently post - or might actually know a bit more than you do.

[Willem]

Willem: Turning this thread into an argument just for the sake of it is very insensitive and inappropriate. The OP posted because he/she was upset and wanted to know what others thought and wanted some support.

When someone keeps coming back to justify his/her position as you are doing makes me wonder if your dog behaves like the dog in the OP when it sees you and you need to explain its behaviour to expunge your own unease.

...I'm not 'turning this thread into an argument' ...I'm just raising my concerns over comments about a 'perfect dog' and a 'shitty dog owner'...such a combination hardly goes together.... and I agree, everyone is entitled to raise (and should raise) concerns about potential animal cruelty, but calling someone 'human' trash' and accusing him of animal cruelty without evidence seems to be at least unfair.

And no, while I might not be a perfect dog lover, I didn't stuffed up our recall; our dog has a nearly perfect recall and comes happily with the tail wagging as she knows there is always a treat (no ice-cream so) for her. However, during the obedience and agility training sessions I can recognize from the behaviour of a few other dogs that there might be some 'behaviour issues' that could be possibly linked to 'inappropriate' trainings measures employed when not on the trainings ground...but some are also rescue dogs or rehomed dogs and the real cause for their behaviour might not be the fault of the current owner. Nevertheless, in most cases where a dog is treated badly there are signs in the dog's behaviour that don't just disappear when the owner is not around.

[Steph M]

There is probably another forum that suits your needs better than this one. I've not seen one post on here that is in the least bit supportive or helpful, just tearing people down and providing poor advice.

[Willem]

Geezus.........you've got nothing better to do then pick on an expression? I call it a day,. the rest of the day I did nothing so I call my 2 hours at the beach (partially with the dog around) a day.

How about you contribute to the question Ive asked, and if you don't want to, just leave.

it seems you use the words pretty loosely ...you asked for advice: accusing someone of 'belting his dog badly' just based on assumptions is a pretty hefty accusation and I (that's me) would be a little bit more careful regards choosing my words before making those kind of statements in the public!

...and if you don't like my advice: just put me on the ignore list :) !

But it's not advice is it Willem.

You have a pattern, you repeatedly take the opposing argument rather than allow someone to express an opinion. Maybe you're right, that doesn't mean continue with undermining and badgering someone into submission then telling them to ignore you is in any way a contribution to discussion.

When you finally get reported enough the moderators will step in and I for one won't miss your goading of members who innocently post - or might actually know a bit more than you do.

well, I can live with this ...than it just might not be the right forum for me, however I would have problems to look into the mirror if I would only issue what others like to hear or read...so I will waiting patiently till I get banned.

[_PL_]

Deep

[LisaCC]

Willem: Turning this thread into an argument just for the sake of it is very insensitive and inappropriate. The OP posted because he/she was upset and wanted to know what others thought and wanted some support.

When someone keeps coming back to justify his/her position as you are doing makes me wonder if your dog behaves like the dog in the OP when it sees you and you need to explain its behaviour to expunge your own unease.

...I'm not 'turning this thread into an argument' ...I'm just raising my concerns over comments about a 'perfect dog' and a 'shitty dog owner'...such a combination hardly goes together.... and I agree, everyone is entitled to raise (and should raise) concerns about potential animal cruelty, but calling someone 'human' trash' and accusing him of animal cruelty without evidence seems to be at least unfair.

And no, while I might not be a perfect dog lover, I didn't stuffed up our recall; our dog has a nearly perfect recall and comes happily with the tail wagging as she knows there is always a treat (no ice-cream so) for her. However, during the obedience and agility training sessions I can recognize from the behaviour of a few other dogs that there might be some 'behaviour issues' that could be possibly linked to 'inappropriate' trainings measures employed when not on the trainings ground...but some are also rescue dogs or rehomed dogs and the real cause for their behaviour might not be the fault of the current owner. Nevertheless, in most cases where a dog is treated badly there are signs in the dog's behaviour that don't just disappear when the owner is not around.

Yes, from all your posts and constant arguments with actual professionals we have gained many insights on your knowledge of canine behaviour.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Mon I can understand why you spent time with the dog; you were hanging around most likely for the owner to turn up. I've done exactly the same thing when a little white fluffy dog I nicknamed Peanut decided he liked Kirah when we were out for a walk and started following us down the road.

I turned around and kept walking up and down the street in hopes someone would come out the front of their house and take him as he had no collar. No such thing happened so I turned and headed home -- it was around 7:30pm by this stage. Peanut continued to follow so I walked home at his snail pace to make sure he crossed roads safely.

I opened my side gate and he toodled on in like he lived there. There was nothing else I could do because he just followed us home. Luckily the local vet I dropped him off at knew who he was and called the owners for me the next morning.

Sonetimes you do just hang around hoping for the owners to show up!!

[Kazzs]

according to you description the dog seems to be fine, I can't see any behaviour problem except that the owner stuffed up the recall...you self called the dog a perfect dog: ...so very sorry lovely dog, ...., you were just perfect...did it ever occur to you to give the owner, which you call...'and your human is a type of a person that I call human trash and doesn't deserve anything as beautiful as your soul'...some credit for raising such a fine dog?...he might not be perfect (who is), but IMO he deserves a little bit of credit for this 'non-problem' dog instead of calling him names on a public forum.

Ive never replied to a thread on here so hope Im doing it right...

I normally "sit on my hands" when I read comments on here but reading 'Willem's comment that the owner of this dog "needs some credit for raising such a fine dog" and assuming that because the dog was lovely, friendly and happy with MonElite, meant the owner was possibly a "good guy and loving owner" (my words) finally made me get off my hands..

About 10 years ago we rescued a dog who was being beaten by its owner. We tried RSPCA first but all they did (to be fair it was in NZ and not australia) was go to the house and check on the dog which at the time they went there, was in a kennel and had water so they werent interested any further. Thru perhaps "devious means" (they were selling their house and had an Open Home which I went to solely to see the dog) I went there and discovered that the reason the dog was laying in his kennel was because he could not get up!!

I was so upset that that night I sent my husband around to the house with a story that I had seen the dog, fallen in love with him (all true) and would they be interested in selling him to us emphasing the fact that they were moving and it would be easier for them. His answer to my husband? "Yea you can just have him - I was just going to take him out in the bush and shoot him anyway" !!

Even after all this time it still makes me cry to think about this beautiful dog and what was done to him - when my husband got home with him that night, myself and our two boys sat on the floor so as not to scare him and that beautiful dog slowly hopped in to a house he had never been in before on 3 legs dragging his shattered hip and leg behind him and went to each person with a loving lick of hello and then curled up as best he could on my knee (I was cross legged on the floor). He had been beaten soo badly and thrown against a fence (his crime? Going near the babies nappies that were on the floor!) and not for the first time but even the vet the next morning said he simply didnt have an aggressive bone in his body.

So 'Willem', dogs know when they are with someone who will not hurt them and they enjoy that small "time of freedom and joy" but their happy demeanour at that time certainly does not mean that they are not treated badly or abused when they are with the owner. Going on MonElites description of how the dog acted when the owner arrived I would totally agree with her assumption and I really hope there is some way that that poor dog can be helped before it could be too late.

My story did not have a happy ending - the beautiful boy we rescued was so badly beaten the vet couldnt put his shattered hip and leg back together and because his other back leg was weak from old fractures amputation was out of the question.

[flame ryder]

Oh no that's so sad Kazzs

MonElite perhaps if you go to that beach regularly you could look out and hopefully see that dog again. He may be with other members of the family and you can see how he behaves with them. Just because he's scared of the 'boss' doesn't mean he's not loved by the other members in the family. I hope he's ok and I think you did the right thing. How rude the dude didn't even say thankyou!

[loveyrdog]

Sad and I know exactly what you mean.

You could try the surrender thing but if kids are involved the usual answer is that he's the kid's pet so no thanks.

RSPCA ... not sure. They would need something other than a scared dog but you could definitely ask if they can make sure his pen has shelter, water and food, tell them he was roaming.

I think they also run the local pound there. Some RSPCA's work with rescue so I'd also call the local rescue people at PMAWS.

If he's been picked up a few times before there could be a nuisance order him - which makes fines steeper and could be why he is kept in a pen.

loveyrdog; I'm afraid you're partly advising illegal theft of property.

Sorry but if you find a dog that is continually roaming the streets

take it in

no one comes forward and wants it

which unfortunately happens

just ask the shelters

then I say good on you for caring about that animal

Just ask the shelters what? Shelters don't just hold animals and hope owners come searching, they make reasonable attempts to locate the owners and in this case the owner was very easy to locate and immediately arranged to pick up their dog.

Yes it can be distressing to see a dog cowering in front of it's owner but I assume that there was no physical evidence of abuse so for all we know this is a guy with some old fashioned views of dog behavior with an escape artist dog, it doesn't mean he's not loved and wanted.

My parents spent thousands trying to keep our dog growing up in our property and my brother and I spent more than 1 afternoon cycling around the neighborhood after school looking for him. He never experienced anything harsher than a stern 'go to your kennel' but he knew when he was 'in trouble'

Excuse me our local dogs home one of the busiest has many dogs up for adoption that were strays

no body comes forward for these animals there was even a goldie dumped on a highway

Sorry but some people DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR DOG thats a fact

[loveyrdog]

Sad and I know exactly what you mean.

You could try the surrender thing but if kids are involved the usual answer is that he's the kid's pet so no thanks.

RSPCA ... not sure. They would need something other than a scared dog but you could definitely ask if they can make sure his pen has shelter, water and food, tell them he was roaming.

I think they also run the local pound there. Some RSPCA's work with rescue so I'd also call the local rescue people at PMAWS.

If he's been picked up a few times before there could be a nuisance order him - which makes fines steeper and could be why he is kept in a pen.

loveyrdog; I'm afraid you're partly advising illegal theft of property.

Sorry but if you find a dog that is continually roaming the streets

take it in

no one comes forward and wants it

which unfortunately happens

just ask the shelters

then I say good on you for caring about that animal

That's theft, and a really low act. I'm 6,000,000% sure no shelter would condone breaking the law by stealing a dog because you have an opinion that it's better off with you. Proper channels exist for a reason

If you want to do the right thing by the dog, and keep it, take it to a shelter and tell them if it's not claimed you will adopt it. Some dogs are escape artists. My old boy went through a brief period of it and if someone had stolen him because they thought they were 'helping' the 'poor dog' it would have broken his heart and mine.

Excuse me our local dogs home one of the busiest has many dogs up for adoption that were strays

no body comes forward for these animals there was even a goldie dumped on a highway

Sorry but some people DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR DOG thats a fact A very SAD FACT

[loveyrdog]

Sad and I know exactly what you mean.

You could try the surrender thing but if kids are involved the usual answer is that he's the kid's pet so no thanks.

RSPCA ... not sure. They would need something other than a scared dog but you could definitely ask if they can make sure his pen has shelter, water and food, tell them he was roaming.

I think they also run the local pound there. Some RSPCA's work with rescue so I'd also call the local rescue people at PMAWS.

If he's been picked up a few times before there could be a nuisance order him - which makes fines steeper and could be why he is kept in a pen.

loveyrdog; I'm afraid you're partly advising illegal theft of property.

Sorry but if you find a dog that is continually roaming the streets

take it in

no one comes forward and wants it

which unfortunately happens

just ask the shelters

then I say good on you for caring about that animal

I know very well what happens in shelters and to lost dogs. I follow the law and rescue dogs from pounds after they have done their time.

What would you expect me to do if I found your dog who has slipped it's collar after it's been lost for a couple of weeks and looking like crap? Give you the chance to reclaim from the pound OR decide you don't deserve that chance?

It's all in the NSW Companion Animals Act and if you are caught holding a dog you found the first fine is 30 penalty units - one unit is $110

If you have violated any other parts of the Act like interfering with a ranger's right to identify an animal you will incur more penalty units. That section of the Act is so that do-gooders and cowboys don't take the law into their own hands. Be they members of the public or rescuers.

You turn the dog in, and if you're as caring as you would like to believe, put your name on to buy.

OH my god really?

Lets talk about the LAW or should we talk about the rights of the ANIMALS

who to many OWNERS lock up keep in a backyard for 10 15 hours a day with NO human contact

with kids that no longer care about the dog and are to busy for it

LOVE YOUR ANIMALS thats all I want

We can have differing opinions thats fine

but I am sick of seeing and hearing about animals suffering

it hurts and makes me frustrated and helpless

thats all

[Steph M]

Okay, well enjoy your huge fine for holding an animal that isn't yours and the potential theft charges.

That's not going to change suffering, your local dogs home is so busy I'm sure they'd love a new volunteer!

[BarbedWire]

according to you description the dog seems to be fine, I can't see any behaviour problem except that the owner stuffed up the recall...you self called the dog a perfect dog: ...so very sorry lovely dog, ...., you were just perfect...did it ever occur to you to give the owner, which you call...'and your human is a type of a person that I call human trash and doesn't deserve anything as beautiful as your soul'...some credit for raising such a fine dog?...he might not be perfect (who is), but IMO he deserves a little bit of credit for this 'non-problem' dog instead of calling him names on a public forum.

Ive never replied to a thread on here so hope Im doing it right...

I normally "sit on my hands" when I read comments on here but reading 'Willem's comment that the owner of this dog "needs some credit for raising such a fine dog" and assuming that because the dog was lovely, friendly and happy with MonElite, meant the owner was possibly a "good guy and loving owner" (my words) finally made me get off my hands..

About 10 years ago we rescued a dog who was being beaten by its owner. We tried RSPCA first but all they did (to be fair it was in NZ and not australia) was go to the house and check on the dog which at the time they went there, was in a kennel and had water so they werent interested any further. Thru perhaps "devious means" (they were selling their house and had an Open Home which I went to solely to see the dog) I went there and discovered that the reason the dog was laying in his kennel was because he could not get up!!

I was so upset that that night I sent my husband around to the house with a story that I had seen the dog, fallen in love with him (all true) and would they be interested in selling him to us emphasing the fact that they were moving and it would be easier for them. His answer to my husband? "Yea you can just have him - I was just going to take him out in the bush and shoot him anyway" !!

Even after all this time it still makes me cry to think about this beautiful dog and what was done to him - when my husband got home with him that night, myself and our two boys sat on the floor so as not to scare him and that beautiful dog slowly hopped in to a house he had never been in before on 3 legs dragging his shattered hip and leg behind him and went to each person with a loving lick of hello and then curled up as best he could on my knee (I was cross legged on the floor). He had been beaten soo badly and thrown against a fence (his crime? Going near the babies nappies that were on the floor!) and not for the first time but even the vet the next morning said he simply didnt have an aggressive bone in his body.

So 'Willem', dogs know when they are with someone who will not hurt them and they enjoy that small "time of freedom and joy" but their happy demeanour at that time certainly does not mean that they are not treated badly or abused when they are with the owner. Going on MonElites description of how the dog acted when the owner arrived I would totally agree with her assumption and I really hope there is some way that that poor dog can be helped before it could be too late.

My story did not have a happy ending - the beautiful boy we rescued was so badly beaten the vet couldnt put his shattered hip and leg back together and because his other back leg was weak from old fractures amputation was out of the question.

You are a kind person Kazzs. That post has made me cry. That poor dog! And he could still love even after what he had been through. At least he knew some love before he passed.

[Rayhay]

There's always one on every forum.

Don't let anyone tell you how to feel about a situation, you were there, you had a lovely time with the dog, you met the owner and your intuition is talking to you and you "feel" what you"feel" and it's ok. It's that inner voice, that says "ooh I am not sure all is right here" it is part of the human make up, it's your "gut feeling" and no one can take that away from you, it is a perfectly normal human response. It's what makes you / us human.

Maybe you will run into your dog friend again, maybe you won't, maybe the dog is mistreated, maybe not, but you couldn't have known how this man would react or what kind of owner would come and pick up the dog.

The fact that you care is a good thing, don't let anyone take that away from you.

You done good. If you "feel" you need to take further action, or can take further action, then that is no ones business but yours. No one has the right to say yes or no, only you know the answer to this question.

I hope the dog sought comfort in your company, whether mistreated or having the happiest of lives, even if just for a couple of hours. You both shared a lovely time. There is nothing wrong with that. All in all I truly hope the dog is not in a awful home too.

Take a look at the horrible things that happen in the world on a daily basis, this is a lovely walk in the park with a friendly creature that took a real liking to you, really not something that anyone should get all bent out of shape about. It only went pear shaped at the end when you couldn't have known the type of person who would come to pick up the dog that left a sour note.

If you are very concerned and you still have the mans number, you could google the phone number to see if it gives any information, google is a wonderful tool at times for that, you could always text him and say that you were very fond of the dog and would love to see him again (hint hint)

Whatever you decide, try not to stress about it too much. You did your best.

Ray

[JayGee]

according to you description the dog seems to be fine, I can't see any behaviour problem except that the owner stuffed up the recall...you self called the dog a perfect dog: ...so very sorry lovely dog, ...., you were just perfect...did it ever occur to you to give the owner, which you call...'and your human is a type of a person that I call human trash and doesn't deserve anything as beautiful as your soul'...some credit for raising such a fine dog?...he might not be perfect (who is), but IMO he deserves a little bit of credit for this 'non-problem' dog instead of calling him names on a public forum.

Ive never replied to a thread on here so hope Im doing it right...

I normally "sit on my hands" when I read comments on here but reading 'Willem's comment that the owner of this dog "needs some credit for raising such a fine dog" and assuming that because the dog was lovely, friendly and happy with MonElite, meant the owner was possibly a "good guy and loving owner" (my words) finally made me get off my hands..

About 10 years ago we rescued a dog who was being beaten by its owner. We tried RSPCA first but all they did (to be fair it was in NZ and not australia) was go to the house and check on the dog which at the time they went there, was in a kennel and had water so they werent interested any further. Thru perhaps "devious means" (they were selling their house and had an Open Home which I went to solely to see the dog) I went there and discovered that the reason the dog was laying in his kennel was because he could not get up!!

I was so upset that that night I sent my husband around to the house with a story that I had seen the dog, fallen in love with him (all true) and would they be interested in selling him to us emphasing the fact that they were moving and it would be easier for them. His answer to my husband? "Yea you can just have him - I was just going to take him out in the bush and shoot him anyway" !!

Even after all this time it still makes me cry to think about this beautiful dog and what was done to him - when my husband got home with him that night, myself and our two boys sat on the floor so as not to scare him and that beautiful dog slowly hopped in to a house he had never been in before on 3 legs dragging his shattered hip and leg behind him and went to each person with a loving lick of hello and then curled up as best he could on my knee (I was cross legged on the floor). He had been beaten soo badly and thrown against a fence (his crime? Going near the babies nappies that were on the floor!) and not for the first time but even the vet the next morning said he simply didnt have an aggressive bone in his body.

So 'Willem', dogs know when they are with someone who will not hurt them and they enjoy that small "time of freedom and joy" but their happy demeanour at that time certainly does not mean that they are not treated badly or abused when they are with the owner. Going on MonElites description of how the dog acted when the owner arrived I would totally agree with her assumption and I really hope there is some way that that poor dog can be helped before it could be too late.

My story did not have a happy ending - the beautiful boy we rescued was so badly beaten the vet couldnt put his shattered hip and leg back together and because his other back leg was weak from old fractures amputation was out of the question.

Kazzs, your story does have a happy ending. That lovely dog finished his days feeling safe, loved, and surrounded by people who loved him. You are special.