Angry And Helpless

[_PL_]

Sad and I know exactly what you mean.

You could try the surrender thing but if kids are involved the usual answer is that he's the kid's pet so no thanks.

RSPCA ... not sure. They would need something other than a scared dog but you could definitely ask if they can make sure his pen has shelter, water and food, tell them he was roaming.

I think they also run the local pound there. Some RSPCA's work with rescue so I'd also call the local rescue people at PMAWS.

If he's been picked up a few times before there could be a nuisance order him - which makes fines steeper and could be why he is kept in a pen.

loveyrdog; I'm afraid you're partly advising illegal theft of property.

Sorry but if you find a dog that is continually roaming the streets

take it in

no one comes forward and wants it

which unfortunately happens

just ask the shelters

then I say good on you for caring about that animal

I know very well what happens in shelters and to lost dogs. I follow the law and rescue dogs from pounds after they have done their time.

What would you expect me to do if I found your dog who has slipped it's collar after it's been lost for a couple of weeks and looking like crap? Give you the chance to reclaim from the pound OR decide you don't deserve that chance?

It's all in the NSW Companion Animals Act and if you are caught holding a dog you found the first fine is 30 penalty units - one unit is $110

If you have violated any other parts of the Act like interfering with a ranger's right to identify an animal you will incur more penalty units. That section of the Act is so that do-gooders and cowboys don't take the law into their own hands. Be they members of the public or rescuers.

You turn the dog in, and if you're as caring as you would like to believe, put your name on to buy.

[MonElite]

...the dog was older, but in a good shape, wasn't distressed in any way, showed no aggression nor any signs of anxiety, was playful and active despite his age, with an impeccable social behaviour...for me it seems he has / had a pretty good live and who ever raised him must have done something right.

...if our dog would run away one day (I hope it never happens so) I hope she shows a similar impeccable behaviour, but I also hope that the person who finds her would call us ASAP and doesn't spend a nice day with her before letting us know where our dog is.

Just to clarify...

I didn't have a phone on me at the beach hence I didn't make a call straight away. Dog didn't behave like he was lost, he behaved as if he knew the area very well, hence the assumption that the owner was near by or he lived near by. There were people at the beach, with dogs and the beach is very long, many dogs get away from the owners for quite big distances.

I wasn't going to just leave the dog there, if he didn't have a name tag I'd take him to the nearest vet to get scanned for a chip.

The dogs behaviour has changed drastically at the sight of the owner! DRASTICALLY!! The dog wouldn't get out of the car when the owner was calling him! And he was using a pleasant voice to call him!

The dog wouldn't move towards the owner, the dog dropped to the ground scared and didn't move the moment the owner took ONE STEP towards him.

The dog was closing the eyes and moving the head away when the owner moved to pick him up.

It was not a happy submissive behaviour, it was scared shittless behaviour. There was not a slightest tail wag at any stage, the tail dissapeared, the body changed, the look in his eyes changed.

As I said before - I have never seen a dog behave that way at the sight of the owner!

A dig at me or my dogs as to how they wouldn't or wouldn't behave when lost was unnecessary, but since it was brought up I can guarantee you that my dogs would happy rush towards me when I called them! And they wouldn't be plastering themselves to the ground paralysed unable to move, turning heads away when I approach them!!

[RiverStar-Aura]

MonElite as tough as it was to see that I'm glad you did the right thing. Perhaps still make a call to RSPCA even if they do end up doing nothing -- at least you've tried right?!

I'd be jumping to the same conclusions about the poor boy being in trouble; dogs, especially staffies, don't just shut down like that over nothing. In fact, I've seen the exact same behaviour and this was in a 16 week old Amstaff puppy at puppy school. The poor boy was terrified of his owners to the point they couldn't get him to recall. He'd slump in one spot and just not move, but he'd recall to anyone else in the group, just not the family.

I can't imagine the type of punishment these dogs get in order to make them fearful to return to their owners. Sure, my dogs don't have a great recall either but that's because they're too busy having their own type of fun, but they don't shut down at the thought of coming back to me.

To me, there seems to be a huge gap in the way recall training is taught to puppies. I see it at the off lead parks all the time where owners start growling/yelling at their dogs to "get the **** back here NOW!!" and even I'm thinking that I'd rather run the opposite direction. I was always taught to make coming back to me a really fun/ZOMGAWESOME experience and that the best way to instigate a recall is to run in the opposite direction as if you're leaving.

[Willem]

...the dog was older, but in a good shape, wasn't distressed in any way, showed no aggression nor any signs of anxiety, was playful and active despite his age, with an impeccable social behaviour...for me it seems he has / had a pretty good live and who ever raised him must have done something right.

...if our dog would run away one day (I hope it never happens so) I hope she shows a similar impeccable behaviour, but I also hope that the person who finds her would call us ASAP and doesn't spend a nice day with her before letting us know where our dog is.

Just to clarify...

I didn't have a phone on me at the beach hence I didn't make a call straight away. Dog didn't behave like he was lost, he behaved as if he knew the area very well, hence the assumption that the owner was near by or he lived near by. There were people at the beach, with dogs and the beach is very long, many dogs get away from the owners for quite big distances.

I wasn't going to just leave the dog there, if he didn't have a name tag I'd take him to the nearest vet to get scanned for a chip.

The dogs behaviour has changed drastically at the sight of the owner! DRASTICALLY!! The dog wouldn't get out of the car when the owner was calling him! And he was using a pleasant voice to call him!

The dog wouldn't move towards the owner, the dog dropped to the ground scared and didn't move the moment the owner took ONE STEP towards him.

The dog was closing the eyes and moving the head away when the owner moved to pick him up.

It was not a happy submissive behaviour, it was scared shittless behaviour. There was not a slightest tail wag at any stage, the tail dissapeared, the body changed, the look in his eyes changed.

As I said before - I have never seen a dog behave that way at the sight of the owner!

A dig at me or my dogs as to how they wouldn't or wouldn't behave when lost was unnecessary, but since it was brought up I can guarantee you that my dogs would happy rush towards me when I called them! And they wouldn't be plastering themselves to the ground paralysed unable to move, turning heads away when I approach them!!

...sure, and you would be also very happy if the finder would take your dog for a day walk instead of letting you know immediately where your dog is...

[Willem]

...the dog was older, but in a good shape, wasn't distressed in any way, showed no aggression nor any signs of anxiety, was playful and active despite his age, with an impeccable social behaviour...for me it seems he has / had a pretty good live and who ever raised him must have done something right.

...if our dog would run away one day (I hope it never happens so) I hope she shows a similar impeccable behaviour, but I also hope that the person who finds her would call us ASAP and doesn't spend a nice day with her before letting us know where our dog is.

Just to clarify...

I didn't have a phone on me at the beach hence I didn't make a call straight away. Dog didn't behave like he was lost, he behaved as if he knew the area very well, hence the assumption that the owner was near by or he lived near by. There were people at the beach, with dogs and the beach is very long, many dogs get away from the owners for quite big distances.

I wasn't going to just leave the dog there, if he didn't have a name tag I'd take him to the nearest vet to get scanned for a chip.

The dogs behaviour has changed drastically at the sight of the owner! DRASTICALLY!! The dog wouldn't get out of the car when the owner was calling him! And he was using a pleasant voice to call him!

The dog wouldn't move towards the owner, the dog dropped to the ground scared and didn't move the moment the owner took ONE STEP towards him.

The dog was closing the eyes and moving the head away when the owner moved to pick him up.

It was not a happy submissive behaviour, it was scared shittless behaviour. There was not a slightest tail wag at any stage, the tail dissapeared, the body changed, the look in his eyes changed.

As I said before - I have never seen a dog behave that way at the sight of the owner!

A dig at me or my dogs as to how they wouldn't or wouldn't behave when lost was unnecessary, but since it was brought up I can guarantee you that my dogs would happy rush towards me when I called them! And they wouldn't be plastering themselves to the ground paralysed unable to move, turning heads away when I approach them!!

...sure, and you would be also very happy if the finder would take your dog for a day walk instead of letting you know immediately where your dog is...

If she didn't have a phone with her on the beach, how is she supposed to call the owner straight away?

...before I would take a strange dog with me on a day walk I would go back to my car (if I would have left my phone there - which I never do) or would have asked someone else on the beach to make this call...but that's just me....

[BarbedWire]

If I saw an otherwise friendly dog cowering and terrified when its owner arrived I would be coming to the same conclusions as the OP. True there are scared, nervous dogs out there but they are scared of all people, not just their owners. This dog was happy with the OP and I think there are grounds to think there is a reportable issue here.

Seriously if my dog was afraid of me, even if only sometimes, I would be mortified and doing whatever I could to rectify the situation.

[Steph M]

...the dog was older, but in a good shape, wasn't distressed in any way, showed no aggression nor any signs of anxiety, was playful and active despite his age, with an impeccable social behaviour...for me it seems he has / had a pretty good live and who ever raised him must have done something right.

...if our dog would run away one day (I hope it never happens so) I hope she shows a similar impeccable behaviour, but I also hope that the person who finds her would call us ASAP and doesn't spend a nice day with her before letting us know where our dog is.

Just to clarify...

I didn't have a phone on me at the beach hence I didn't make a call straight away. Dog didn't behave like he was lost, he behaved as if he knew the area very well, hence the assumption that the owner was near by or he lived near by. There were people at the beach, with dogs and the beach is very long, many dogs get away from the owners for quite big distances.

I wasn't going to just leave the dog there, if he didn't have a name tag I'd take him to the nearest vet to get scanned for a chip.

The dogs behaviour has changed drastically at the sight of the owner! DRASTICALLY!! The dog wouldn't get out of the car when the owner was calling him! And he was using a pleasant voice to call him!

The dog wouldn't move towards the owner, the dog dropped to the ground scared and didn't move the moment the owner took ONE STEP towards him.

The dog was closing the eyes and moving the head away when the owner moved to pick him up.

It was not a happy submissive behaviour, it was scared shittless behaviour. There was not a slightest tail wag at any stage, the tail dissapeared, the body changed, the look in his eyes changed.

As I said before - I have never seen a dog behave that way at the sight of the owner!

A dig at me or my dogs as to how they wouldn't or wouldn't behave when lost was unnecessary, but since it was brought up I can guarantee you that my dogs would happy rush towards me when I called them! And they wouldn't be plastering themselves to the ground paralysed unable to move, turning heads away when I approach them!!

...sure, and you would be also very happy if the finder would take your dog for a day walk instead of letting you know immediately where your dog is...

If she didn't have a phone with her on the beach, how is she supposed to call the owner straight away?

...before I would take a strange dog with me on a day walk I would go back to my car (if I would have left my phone there - which I never do) or would have asked someone else on the beach to make this call...but that's just me....

Much better to leave the dog on the beach or walk him sans leash to your car.

And our beach doesn't generally have many people on it.

So pleased you're a genuis and never forget your phone or opt to leave it home when headed out though!

To be honest if that were my dog and OP rang to say he was wandering and they'd had a game of fetch before they could get to their phone I'd be a) mortified he was out but b) glad someone lovely had found him and looked after him before I could be called and kept him safe, busy, off the roads and cared enough to work out what to do.

[Willem]

If I saw an otherwise friendly dog cowering and terrified when its owner arrived I would be coming to the same conclusions as the OP. True there are scared, nervous dogs out there but they are scared of all people, not just their owners. This dog was happy with the OP and I think there are grounds to think there is a reportable issue here.

Seriously if my dog was afraid of me, even if only sometimes, I would be mortified and doing whatever I could to rectify the situation.

...the dog showed an extreme submissive behaviour regards the owner picking him up - that only tells you that the owner handled recalls in such situation badly...but to jump to the conclusion that the dog gets beaten and tortured is also extreme as the dog's overall behaviour indicated that he is a fine dog.

As pointed out also by others, dogs can also show this submissive behaviour without getting bashed or belted or what's so ever if those situations are handled badly by the owners. The OP spent the whole day with the dog and 'witnessed' that there was nothing wrong with this dog, so why jumping to the conclusion that the owner tortures the dog?...the guy might have been pissed off (now I'm starting to speculate) because he was looking for the dog the whole day after telling the kids 100 times to make sure that the doors / gates are locked (yes Daddy...), and then gets told he should 'manage' it better from someone who took his dog on a day walk without calling him immediately ...yes, he called the dog with a friendly voice (according to the OP) but dogs are pretty good in recognizing when someone is upset or not, and the dog's reinforced behaviour might be just 'ducking for cover' if he senses that the owner is upset...that's not nice, but considering the overall behaviour of the dog the statement 'and its very clear that he gets belted badly' is a pretty hefty accusation.

[MonElite]

...before I would take a strange dog with me on a day walk I would go back to my car (if I would have left my phone there - which I never do) or would have asked someone else on the beach to make this call...but that's just me....

The OP spent the whole day with the dog and 'witnessed' that there was nothing wrong with this dog, so why jumping to the conclusion that the owner tortures the dog?...the guy might have been pissed off (now I'm starting to speculate) because he was looking for the dog the whole day after telling the kids 100 times to make sure that the doors / gates are locked (yes Daddy...), and then gets told he should 'manage' it better from someone who took his dog on a day walk without calling him immediately

I'm wondering what is your issue with what I have done, seems like you think Ive done something wrong!! I probably have done way more then most people would have in that situation, in fact the beach practically only has dog walkers on it and noone bothered to look at the tag and ring the owner. Dog came to me soaking wet, covered in sand and thirsty (I gave him my water).

When I rang the owner he wasn't even surprised that the dog is out, he was trying to postpone the time of pick up, and I told him I'm leaving and need to go and to come straight away.

It was Sunday and during school holidays and he was busy "in town"

I didn't TAKE a dog for a walk, he followed me. I was there on holidays, I had no leash and I was there with other people. And I didn't spend the whole day there it might have been an hour to hour and a half max (see how you also assumed stuff?)

Plus I feel like I have done the right thing, I rang the owners, drove a filthy sand and salt water covered dog to give him back.

I now wish I have found a pound and dropped him off there, at least the owner would have had to pay a penalty to get him back!!

I have since googled the ph number, found out a bit about the owner (google is my friend) and the dog is very local to where I was, hence he was so familiar with the beach. And clearly not in a hurry to be going back home. As the owner said - he got out AGAIN.

he told me that the dog is locked up in a pen and gets out, and that the kids must have left the front door open again. That to me looks like a poor management and should be improved.

I came here to ask for advice what to do not for a lecture from someone that thinks I've done wrong. If you have no answer nor advice to my original question I kindly ask you to leave the thread.

[Willem]

...before I would take a strange dog with me on a day walk I would go back to my car (if I would have left my phone there - which I never do) or would have asked someone else on the beach to make this call...but that's just me....

The OP spent the whole day with the dog and 'witnessed' that there was nothing wrong with this dog, so why jumping to the conclusion that the owner tortures the dog?...the guy might have been pissed off (now I'm starting to speculate) because he was looking for the dog the whole day after telling the kids 100 times to make sure that the doors / gates are locked (yes Daddy...), and then gets told he should 'manage' it better from someone who took his dog on a day walk without calling him immediately

I'm wondering what is your issue with what I have done, seems like you think Ive done something wrong!! I probably have done way more then most people would have in that situation, in fact the beach practically only has dog walkers on it and noone bothered to look at the tag and ring the owner. Dog came to me soaking wet, covered in sand and thirsty (I gave him my water).

When I rang the owner he wasn't even surprised that the dog is out, he was trying to postpone the time of pick up, and I told him I'm leaving and need to go and to come straight away.

It was Sunday and during school holidays and he was busy "in town"

I didn't TAKE a dog for a walk, he followed me. I was there on holidays, I had no leash and I was there with other people. And I didn't spend the whole day there it might have been an hour to hour and a half max (see how you also assumed stuff?)

Plus I feel like I have done the right thing, I rang the owners, drove a filthy sand and salt water covered dog to give him back.

I now wish I have found a pound and dropped him off there, at least the owner would have had to pay a penalty to get him back!!

I have since googled the ph number, found out a bit about the owner (google is my friend) and the dog is very local to where I was, hence he was so familiar with the beach. And clearly not in a hurry to be going back home. As the owner said - he got out AGAIN.

he told me that the dog is locked up in a pen and gets out, and that the kids must have left the front door open again. That to me looks like a poor management and should be improved.

I came here to ask for advice what to do not for a lecture from someone that thinks I've done wrong. If you have no answer nor advice to my original question I kindly ask you to leave the thread.

I don't assume ...your words: 'We had a great day.' ...now it's 1 or maybe 1.5 hours ...that's not what I call 'a day'.

[MonElite]

Geezus.........you've got nothing better to do then pick on an expression? I call it a day,. the rest of the day I did nothing so I call my 2 hours at the beach (partially with the dog around) a day.

How about you contribute to the question Ive asked, and if you don't want to, just leave.

[Willem]

Geezus.........you've got nothing better to do then pick on an expression? I call it a day,. the rest of the day I did nothing so I call my 2 hours at the beach (partially with the dog around) a day.

How about you contribute to the question Ive asked, and if you don't want to, just leave.

it seems you use the words pretty loosely ...you asked for advice: accusing someone of 'belting his dog badly' just based on assumptions is a pretty hefty accusation and I (that's me) would be a little bit more careful regards choosing my words before making those kind of statements in the public!

...and if you don't like my advice: just put me on the ignore list :) !

[MonElite]

I asked for advice about what to do about the dog not what to put on the internet. But thanks :)

[Willem]

according to you description the dog seems to be fine, I can't see any behaviour problem except that the owner stuffed up the recall...you self called the dog a perfect dog: ...so very sorry lovely dog, ...., you were just perfect...did it ever occur to you to give the owner, which you call...'and your human is a type of a person that I call human trash and doesn't deserve anything as beautiful as your soul'...some credit for raising such a fine dog?...he might not be perfect (who is), but IMO he deserves a little bit of credit for this 'non-problem' dog instead of calling him names on a public forum.

[Rascalmyshadow]

Good you looked out for the poor dog, sounds to me like its frightened of its owner not normal behaviour for a dog that is loved and cared for.

I would ring the council and report the owner for having a roaming dog and also have a chat with the RSPCA about your concerns.

[MonElite]

some credit for raising such a fine dog

And you know that this dog was raised by that owner, right? From puppy, it had no other home prior. And that owner only stuffed up the recall, you know that too....

Its not a problem to you that the guys say - he is trouble, when the dog did nothing wrong. That passive aggressive tone of voice towards me when he said "its my dog and he is in trouble"... that is not an issue for some people..

And the fact that the dog didn't want to get out of the car at the smell of the owner near by, nor at the sight, nor at the recall is perfectly fine with you.

I guess this is why so many abuse cases go unnoticed in the society. Would you react the same way if I was talking about a 2-3 year old child and, lets say, a father?

Edited January 28, 2016 by MonElite

[BlaznHotAussies]

Seriously Willem do you have to pick apart every single little thing someone says...on EVERY thread!? Do you have reading comprehension troubles and does that make it hard for you to figure out loosely used colloquial expressions?

Every damn time!!!

[Willem]

some credit for raising such a fine dog

And you know that this dog was raised by that owner, right? From puppy, it had no other home prior. And that owner only stuffed up the recall, you know that too....

And the fact that the dog didn't want to get out of the car at the smell of the owner near by, nor at the sight, nor at the recall is perfectly fine with you.

I guess this is why so many abuse cases go unnoticed in the society. Would you react the same way if I was talking about a 2-3 year old child and, lets say, a father?

No, I don't know. What I know is that abused and tortured dogs behave distressed, shy and / or aggressive...it is unlikely that an older dog that was badly treated during his life wouldn't show any signs of those behaviour problems, very unlikely that he would approach a stranger 'asking' for playtime and showing perfect manners. The dog you describe seems to be very familiar with the beach, the environment and people and other dogs walking there without showing any signs of problematic behaviour - it seems he 'escaped' quite often (maybe he was also walked there by the family) and went through this 'unpleasant' pickup scenario, however, he enjoyed life at the beach without any signs of stress. Your description also indicates that he lived for a longer time with his owner (more than one escape...), hence for me it is hard to believe that there are no signs of behaviour issues if he really would have been treated badly in the past.

...seriously, I wish every roaming dog would behave like this dog.

...but yes, I don't know, however you also don't know, nevertheless you think it is ok to call him names in public and accuse him of severe animal cruelty.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Willem

[Willem]

Seriously Willem do you have to pick apart every single little thing someone says...on EVERY thread!? Do you have reading comprehension troubles and does that make it hard for you to figure out loosely used colloquial expressions?

Every damn time!!!

...if you don't like my comments...put me on the ignore list :D !

BTW: ....calling someone 'human trash' and accusing someone of 'severe animal cruelty' without evidence seems to be ok for you?...just little things?...oh well,....

[Willem]

some credit for raising such a fine dog

And you know that this dog was raised by that owner, right? From puppy, it had no other home prior. And that owner only stuffed up the recall, you know that too....

Its not a problem to you that the guys say - he is trouble, when the dog did nothing wrong. That passive aggressive tone of voice towards me when he said "its my dog and he is in trouble"... that is not an issue for some people..

And the fact that the dog didn't want to get out of the car at the smell of the owner near by, nor at the sight, nor at the recall is perfectly fine with you.

I guess this is why so many abuse cases go unnoticed in the society. Would you react the same way if I was talking about a 2-3 year old child and, lets say, a father?

...you editing too fast....

...wrt the highlighted text: yes, it is his dog, and because he told you that his dog 'is in trouble' is clear evidence for you that he drives home and bashes the dog?...and you advice me on the other hand not to pick on every expression????? ...could it be that the way you asked him about the bad recall behaviour provoked his comment?