Puppy Questions

[Lazy Daisy]

Hi some advice needed please.

We have a 9.5 week old lab puppy who we got at 8 weeks. We are besotted with her (3 bigger kids, 2 adults) and she seems to like us.... too much. She can't stand to be apart from us (I'm talking crying, whining, barking, howling) if she is left alone for a few minutes. With 5 people in the house we've managed this by having someone with her all the time but this can't continue when school goes back so I'd like advice on three possible options.

Background first: we have a large crate with a divider that we cover back and sides with. She hates it despite 12 days of all meals etc in there but does tolerate it at night - she was in our room first 3 nights now is just outside our bedroom with door open (crate closed). She settles after 30-60 mins of howling, panting whining etc (this is progress as she cried all night first 2 nights).

Daytime she is not frightened of crate and wanders in there occasionally- knows she gets fed in there so that helps- but if I close the door she panics. She won't eat the treats in there while door closed - she seems too stressed. I tried a few days of very brief shutting her in, dropping lots of treats etc and feel like I've read everything I can get my hands on but nothing working so far. Have tried leaving her outside (secure yard) and she is equally distressed (panting, howling scratching glass back door).

I realize there is no quick fix and we will need to work on long term solutions but for my sanity to take youngest child to school next week (45 min round trip) I have 3 options:

1) Crate - which we've been doing. In living room with crate door shut.

2) Outside

3) move crate into small laundry and leave crate door open

Taking her in car is not an option as I can't fit the crate in the car. When she's able to go for walks etc we can walk to school but not for another 2 weeks at least.

[Roova]

Once everyone is back at work and school is she going to be outside or inside all day?

If outside can you create an area for her to spend the day large enough to have protection from the weather but also to run and romp and hopefully toilet on grass etc. You can fill it with safe items for her to play with or on which can keep her amused. You can also give her things like frozen kongs and cardboard boxes to rip up as a time killer. You want it to be a great place for her to spend time.

I would start by giving her something she loves and place her in this area for five minutes only if you have to. Long enough for you to disappear from sight but for her to remain distracted and quiet. When you return I would avoid making any type of fuss but let her out of the area and go about your business. You want to keep doing this throughout the day but increasing the time until she can handle hours.

You don't want her going in or out of the area to be note worthy (or your arrival and departure to be noteworthy)so no big fusses when you leave or get home. Also don't lift her over the top, always go through a gate or she'll learn she can exit over the top too.

Increase the time she is alone until its hours if you have to. I would expect some crying but if she has a gentle positive experience there shouldn't be too much before she settles. Eventually you should be able to drive away for hours and return and she's quiet in her pen.

She also needs to learn how to be alone when everyone is home so definitely don't always have her with you (as hard as this is)

Here's some other tips if you're really struggling: Managing separation anxiety

I would also chat with the neighbours and say you're working on the problem and to hang in there!

Edited January 21, 2016 by Roova

[Lazy Daisy]

Once everyone is back at work and school is she going to be outside or inside all day?

If outside can you create an area for her to spend the day large enough to have protection from the weather but also to run and romp and hopefully toilet on grass etc. You can fill it with safe items for her to play with or on which can keep her amused. You can also give her things like frozen kongs and cardboard boxes to rip up as a time killer. You want it to be a great place for her to spend time.

I would start by giving her something she loves and place her in this area for five minutes only if you have to. Long enough for you to disappear from sight but for her to remain distracted and quiet. When you return I would avoid making any type of fuss but let her out of the area and go about your business. You want to keep doing this throughout the day but increasing the time until she can handle hours.

You don't want her going in or out of the area to be note worthy (or your arrival and departure to be noteworthy)so no big fusses when you leave or get home. Also don't lift her over the top, always go through a gate or she'll learn she can exit over the top too.

Increase the time she is alone until its hours if you have to. I would expect some crying but if she has a gentle positive experience there shouldn't be too much before she settles. Eventually you should be able to drive away for hours and return and she's quiet in her pen.

She also needs to learn how to be alone when everyone is home so definitely don't always have her with you (as hard as this is)

Here's some other tips if you're really struggling: Managing separation anxiety

I would also chat with the neighbours and say you're working on the problem and to hang in there!

Thanks Roova- I'll be home most the time for the next couple of months, then at work 2 days. We have a shady concreted area we can section off which we were planning to use. Unfortunately no grass in this area, just an edge of garden bed with established trees. But we think this would be better for long days away in future as there is zero chance of digging out. We do have a large kennel here. Haven't attempted to leave her in this part yet but maybe I should try that too? It's just further away from us again so didn't want to stress her more!

It's delightful that her favour it's place is at our feet but I wasn't quite prepared for her level of attachment to us or her continued distress in her crate

[Roova]

That's sounds like a fine place while she's a baby, she can always have more room as you work out she's safe in the yard.

I think we often create our own problems because the pup has company every moment of the day to begin with and big fusses made of them. They haven't learnt if we go away we do come back so they go in to panic mode when they're separated.

Its definitely kinder to teach a pup how to cope with being alone so the rest of their life is not moments of intense stress when we aren't there. There'll come a time when she might have to spend time at vet, kennels or with a friend and teaching her alone skills now as a baby will make a big difference to her coping skills as an adult.

[persephone]

That's sounds like a fine place while she's a baby, she can always have more room as you work out she's safe in the yard.

I think we often create our own problems because the pup has company every moment of the day to begin with and big fusses made of them. They haven't learnt if we go away we do come back so they go in to panic mode when they're separated.

Its definitely kinder to teach a pup how to cope with being alone so the rest of their life is not moments of intense stress when we aren't there. There'll come a time when she might have to spend time at vet, kennels or with a friend and teaching her alone skills now as a baby will make a big difference to her coping skills as an adult.

Agree whole heartedly .

She has been taught that there will be someone at her beck & call 24/7 - so of course she yells & screams when that doesn't happen ....

Start NOW - leave her outside with a meal / raw bone .. and when she is SETTLED - either chewing /sleeping / just being - then call her indoors with you - but without fuss & carry-on.

I also suggest that the kids be taught a sensible way of interacting with her ... to NOT play with her all the time ...that sort of thing ...

[Lazy Daisy]

Agree whole heartedly .

She has been taught that there will be someone at her beck & call 24/7 - so of course she yells & screams when that doesn't happen ....

Start NOW - leave her outside with a meal / raw bone .. and when she is SETTLED - either chewing /sleeping / just being - then call her indoors with you - but without fuss & carry-on.

I also suggest that the kids be taught a sensible way of interacting with her ... to NOT play with her all the time ...that sort of thing ...

Good suggestion re kids will start that asap

The problem re waiting for her to settle is she never does! And doesn't eat or chew in this state. She just gets worse (panting whining barking) with the longer time. She has worked out I won't let her out of crate while barking so has little pauses but not much. And she never lies down, only sits.

When locked outside she gets more and more hysterical scratching glass door etc.

We have a vet check tomorrow so will ask then if she seems over the top anxious

[persephone]

OF COURSE she keeps on & on ..cos she knows that you will, eventually, let her in!!

How long have you let her wait ..an hour? two? is she noisy all that time ?

[persephone]

oh ..; and what has the breeder suggested?

[Lazy Daisy]

OF COURSE she keeps on & on ..cos she knows that you will, eventually, let her in!!

How long have you let her wait ..an hour? two? is she noisy all that time ?

Oh dear. No. Probably 45 mins top. She clearly has us wrapped around her little paw already.

Will call breeder asap

Thanks for reality check lol

[persephone]

I do suggest a session with a professional ..and if you're in melb .. there are some good people there!! Underdog (D O L member cosmolo) is one who I would urge you to contact :)

have a read of these two links as well , to help you understand some of what pup is thinking ...

LINK

LINK

[Lazy Daisy]

I do suggest a session with a professional ..and if you're in melb .. there are some good people there!! Underdog (D O L member cosmolo) is one who I would urge you to contact :)

have a read of these two links as well , to help you understand some of what pup is thinking ...

LINK

LINK

Thanks for those. I agree we need some help. I was going to contact a dog trainer in a few weeks for some tips on the kids and dog etc so it was in the plan. I guess I was resistant at doing it on day 10 out of embarrassment- I thought surely we can work this out ourselves? But I think we all need to be on the same page so early help may be better. We've regularly dog sat adult dogs with no problems but I think we obviously didn't train them.

[persephone]

:) it is very different when a puppy is with you 24/7 ..and every day is a new challenge!

[jars]

Good suggestions here already. Just hang in there. I have just gone through the new puppy stage as well, so can empathize. They sure know how to push our buttons. The first time we left Pepper alone, we just had to block her crying out which was hard. But after a few days, she settled.

[Dewclaws]

We currently have a 10 week old Labrador pup . I am a bit of a hard arse lol

For the first night our benson acted like yours , couldn't leave the room without whining and howling .so I slept in the lounge room with him . We brought him home in the late afternoon so I knew he was scared and missing his mum so he was given some cuddles and reassurance .

Second night I knew it was time to cut the apron strings . We don't crate train . I have never crate trained my dogs . Our space for benson is the laundry with a doggy door out to a puppy or proof yard .

That night he howled and carried on for hours but I did not go to him .vwas definitely not fun but I knew going would only reward the howling . He settled eventually .

Third night, same story . I do give him some treats to find within his bed but then leave him . Still carry on but defiantly shorter .

Next night, same thing ect ect .

Next Tuesday it will be three weeks since we have him and he now gladly goes to bed in his laundry .

He is so very intelligent and you can tell he wants to be told what to do and loves the routine of it.

Puppies need tough love and stiff boundaries . They are nothing like human babies .

Human babies thrive on smothering of love and attention .

Puppies find this confusing and anxiety inducing because they feel there is something wrong and something to be scared about . It's reinforcing negative emotions instead of soothing them .

Confidence is what they need .

Actually in away it is like an older child . If a toddler falls over and slightly grazes a knee a parent rushing over and smothering with kisses and concern can lead to to them bawling . Yet a similar incidence were the parent makes light if it and distracts them to another activity quickly has the child avoiding tears .

A puppy crying in the night is Not much different .

[Roova]

I had my puppy beside me at night (in a soft crate so she didn't wander). If she stirred through the night I took her out to the toilet, no playing or interaction though. She cried I think twice but when I dropped my hand into the crate she stopped. As soon as she slept through the night she was out of my room which wasn't long. I practiced alone time from day two and I didn't have a crying puppy once through puppy hood. Hallelujah!

Tough love is fine but I didn't want a tiny 8 week old puppy left to take herself outside in the dark to toilet or learn it was ok to wee inside the house.

[Simply Grand]

Good advice already but I just wanted to say don't ever be embarrassed about calling in a trainer!! That's what they are there for and it is much more sensible to get the help early on than struggle along with a problem you are not sure how to get on top of.

I for one think it would be fantastic if every new dog owner had a session or two with a good trainer right at the beginning, just to set things up on the right track :)

[The Spotted Devil]

I understand that pups need to learn to be by themselves but I don't like baby puppies getting distressed for that length of time. I leave my lot that tired after training and play that they are happy to settle and grab some sleep. Before work I get up at 5am and get pup out of bed - kills me but boy is she glad to climb into her pen when I leave! Pup sleeps in a crate next to my bed until she can be trusted. Even my litter of pups all went straight into their new homes with very little fuss. And Ginny is fine if I take her Mum out and not her. The only pup I've ever had trouble with was a GSP who I had for training for a month. Separation anxiety is quite typical for the breed. Definitely get some help sooner rather than later.

Edited January 24, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[Salukifan]

I'm not going to get into the discussion up front of where puppy should sleep. That's for you to determine.

However, you should determine where you want puppy to sleep as an adult and start there on Day 1. All howling and panicking must be ignored. If you're going to a howling pup you're reinforcing that howling works. If that means riding out however many days of noise then you have no choice but to harden up and do it. Otherwise you are making a rod for your back.

As to where puppy should sleep? It's a social animal that until the day it arrived at your place, never slept alone. You bought a breed selectively bred for generations for people focus and companionship. It's also pretty determined - you need that in a good retriever. You've gotten precisely the reaction I'd expect.

Laundries are cold sterile places. VERY cold in winter.

So sit down with the family, determine where you want your ADULT dog to sleep and move the crate there is that is what you want her to sleep in. Then weather the storm.

You can reinforce the crate by putting her in there for short periods of time durng the day and leaving her alone. Give her a nice chicken wing or something to occupy her. She needs to learn about down time and being by herself. Cover the crate with a sheet (and in winter a blanket) to make it more den like.

I suggest all treats be fed in the crate and a nice big soft cuddly toy be added - it will give her something to snuggle into.

And buy some ear plugs if you must.

And get working on loose lead walking - that determined attitude will see 25+ Kilos of dog wrecking your shoulder if you don't get that going now. NO PULLING ON THE LEAD. Ever.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Scottsmum]

Good advice already but I just wanted to say don't ever be embarrassed about calling in a trainer!! That's what they are there for and it is much more sensible to get the help early on than struggle along with a problem you are not sure how to get on top of. I for one think it would be fantastic if every new dog owner had a session or two with a good trainer right at the beginning, just to set things up on the right track :)

Yep - we ignored a problem for longer than we should have and now, 18 months / 2 years later we're really paying for it.

If you can - find a good trainer you like and click with and get them on board nice and early.

[Lazy Daisy]

I'm not going to get into the discussion up front of where puppy should sleep. That's for you to determine.

However, you should determine where you want puppy to sleep as an adult and start there on Day 1. All howling and panicking must be ignored. If you're going to a howling pup you're reinforcing that howling works. If that means riding out however many days of noise then you have no choice but to harden up and do it. Otherwise you are making a rod for your back.

As to where puppy should sleep? It's a social animal that until the day it arrived at your place, never slept alone. You bought a breed selectively bred for generations for people focus and companionship. It's also pretty determined - you need that in a good retriever. You've gotten precisely the reaction I'd expect.

Laundries are cold sterile places. VERY cold in winter.

So sit down with the family, determine where you want your ADULT dog to sleep and move the crate there is that is what you want her to sleep in. Then weather the storm.

You can reinforce the crate by putting her in there for short periods of time durng the day and leaving her alone. Give her a nice chicken wing or something to occupy her. She needs to learn about down time and being by herself. Cover the crate with a sheet (and in winter a blanket) to make it more den like.

I suggest all treats be fed in the crate and a nice big soft cuddly toy be added - it will give her something to snuggle into.

And buy some ear plugs if you must.

And get working on loose lead walking - that determined attitude will see 25+ Kilos of dog wrecking your shoulder if you don't get that going now. NO PULLING ON THE LEAD. Ever.

This is very true. We love labs for their people focus and intelligence. We still think she's the right dog for us but we need some routine and practical suggestions.

We will have her sleep in our laundry long term. It's actually heated- no external door and is right between our bedroom and youngest sons room (he wants her to sleep in his room but the size of the crate precludes that. When she is out of the crate (18 months) and less chewy she can sleep in his room if they both want that still.

We seem to have progress last 2 days so I think we just needed to toughen up and bit and maybe she just took longer to realize we always come back :)