Salukifan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I think the elephant in the room that wasn't articulated in the article or by Franklin's supporters is that the reality of his capture will be that he will have to be euthanaised. I hope folk are ready for that when the time comes that Franklin becomes sick, injured or too old and frail to live rough. This dog has gone feral. If you cannot handle him safely, then there really is only one option in the end. I suspect short of a humane trap, the only way he will be captured is by tranquilser dart. Edited January 21, 2016 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I think the elephant in the room that wasn't articulated in the article or by Franklin's supporters is that the reality of his capture will be that he will have to be euthanaised. I hope folk are ready for that when the time comes that Franklin becomes sick, injured or too old and frail to live rough. This dog has gone feral. If you cannot handle him safely, then there really is only one option in the end. I suspect short of a humane trap, the only way he will be captured is by tranquilser dart. Not quite feral. Some people (the in-group who wants others to leave him alone) say they can pat him and someone feeds him and he sleeps at her place sometimes. I think he should be caught and it should be left to a Maremma rescue to decide his fate. They have already offered. Some quotes from his facebook page: The in-group Please do not try to approach Franklin. There is only a couple of people he trusts, we don't want to ruin this for them. If you see him just speak softly and calmly to him and let him be. One of the romantics Such a dashing old chap! A realist Nobody has asked franklin if he is happy. Everyone keeps saying he is happy but I see a tired old dog. If you compare early photos and recent photos he is actually not looking as good as you think Edited January 21, 2016 by sarspididious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This is Franklin with the title post saying 'Love is in the air' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) This is all kinds of wrong. Why is there laws for everyone elses dogs, but not this one? Roaming, defacating, the possibility of rushing/charging dogs/people, plus he has no road sense, it's really disturbing to hear that the council and rspca are okay with this, when everyone else has to obey the laws. Plus, how is this good for the dog? He doesn't look happy to me, a dog that no one can get near except for a few to feed/give the odd pat to, he could be full of worms/fleas, then there's heartworm, his teeth, general health, he probably stinks, plus he is out in the extreme elements of cold/heat. I'm really surprised that there's people out there who think that this is okay. It really isn't. ETA: According to ACT by laws, he should be: Desexed, Microchipped, Wear his registration tag at all times Be on a leash in public places Have his poo picked up and disposed of Not be wandering onto peoples yards Edited January 22, 2016 by Cazablanca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I think the elephant in the room that wasn't articulated in the article or by Franklin's supporters is that the reality of his capture will be that he will have to be euthanaised. I hope folk are ready for that when the time comes that Franklin becomes sick, injured or too old and frail to live rough. This dog has gone feral. If you cannot handle him safely, then there really is only one option in the end. I suspect short of a humane trap, the only way he will be captured is by tranquilser dart. In reality though if it comes down to DAS having to catch him when something goes wrong he will most likely be cornered and captured with the pole and wire and heaved into a truck, traumatising and possibly injuring him, probably prompting aggression, and greatly reducing any chance of him avoiding euthanasia. I'm not at all saying that's what the Rangers would want to do but that is what their procedures and resources allow (unless they have changed recently). Someone who either has a relationship with him or can build one and can get a slip lead around him gently, contain him and continue to build the relationship until he can be properly handled and assessed would be much kinder on him. And if he is not suitable for rehoming or a suitable property can't be found for him then a quick, humane euthanasia is better than being in pain and slowly dying of illness or injury while he wanders. ETA from the quotes in the article linked in the OP it doesn't sound to me like DAS or RSPCA are saying that they are ok with it, but more that they'd prefer to just avoid dealing with it, which I don't think is ok. If he does injure someone or cause an accident I think there would be a strong case that DAS is responsible. RSPCA are not responsible for roaming dogs, attacks or injuries in the ACT but I think they have a role to play in the welfare of Franklin. It would take resources to work with/treat/assess him though and with the community and media seemingly supporting him roaming it wouldn't be good press for RSPCA to capture then have to euthanise him, even if it would be best for the dog Edited January 22, 2016 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 There was a young honey/white border collie living in bushland around a dead-end suburban street on the North Coast. No one could catch him but people in the street left food & water for him. Can't draw too many parallels with the maremma. Too many different factors .... like breed characteristics, length of time , range of roaming. But interesting thing was that everyone agreed the border collie was at huge health risk & if anything went wrong for him in that bushland he could have a horrible death. Dog trainer in that area said he'd adopt him if & when caught. Can't remember how he was finally caught, but he finally went to live with the trainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hubby and I were talking about this tonight - after I told him about this thread. One of the things we agreed on was - what the hell would you actually do with him? I think, I assume / imagine that the reason the person who is feeding him wont capture him is she probably wouldnt be able to keep him in her suburban backyard - so where does he go when captured & if he can be safely transported and re-homed. Again, I imagine, she'd feel like she was signing his death warrant. I mean, who seriously has a few acres of very well fenced property just sitting there completely empty waiting for a stray/feral dog to start living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 That may well be what the local residents are thinking SM, but Maremma Rescue have said they would take so presumably they have the capacity to hold him and the contacts to find him a home if he is suitable for rehoming. There are also at least a couple of other farmers/property owners in the Canberra/Southern Highlands region who know Maremma and keep an eye on the pound and RSPCA in Canberra for any Maremma that pop up. It needs DAS or RSPCA to step in first though to go through the process of legally acquiring ownership before he could go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 That may well be what the local residents are thinking SM, but Maremma Rescue have said they would take so presumably they have the capacity to hold him and the contacts to find him a home if he is suitable for rehoming. There are also at least a couple of other farmers/property owners in the Canberra/Southern Highlands region who know Maremma and keep an eye on the pound and RSPCA in Canberra for any Maremma that pop up. It needs DAS or RSPCA to step in first though to go through the process of legally acquiring ownership before he could go anywhere. Don't get me wrong - I think he needs to be off the streets. Was just imagining being in the "feeders" position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Get community cooperation ramped up & do what should've been done 3 years ago. Get strategic to bring him in ... not the first time an unwilling to be caught dog has been successfully brought in. Followed by thorough vet check & any work necessary. Take up Maremma Rescue's assertion that they could find him a home in Maremma-friendly situation, anchored by being bonded to animals to guard. He would still have the 'free' Maremma lifestyle, but one where he was secure & his health and general well-being monitored. In other words apply some strategic cooperative community action (individuals & organizations). That's what was put in play for the long-term, elusive, bush-dwelling border collie in Qld. Edited January 22, 2016 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 There are plenty of people who could catch him judging by his Facebook page- they just choose not to. I think it's a combination of selfishness- no doubt he brings pleasure to their life and makes them feel special as they are part of only a small group that can interact with him. I also think they genuinely think he needs to be "free" They enjoy interacting with him and "looking after" him without the usual responsibilities that come with owning a pet. I doubt many of his enablers would step up and take responsibility financially and legally if he were hit by a car or injured someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Sadly I think Franklin is going to be fending for himself for some time. The Canberra Times published an article about Franklin on January 19 including a poll about what readers think should happen to this dog. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/canberra-life/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-franklin-the-gungahlin-maremma-sheepdog-and-do-you-need-to-20160115-gm6r6c.html Poll: Poll: What should happen to the Maremma sheepdog on the loose in Gungahlin? Nothing. We should leave him alone. He's fine. 49% We need to find his family, and return him home. 6% He needs to be re-homed with a loving family. 35% Domestic Animal Services needs to catch him. 10% The ACT government has just had a reshuffle of ministerial portfolios. Meegan Fitzharris is the new minister responsible for the pound and she has already said on her Facebook page that she supports leaving Franklin alone. https://www.facebook.com/MeeganFitzharrisMLA/ A great story in today's Canberra Times about Franklin, who I've spotted many times (always looking healthy). The headline nicely sums up the article and the issue. Do you have a view about Franklin?http://www.canberratimes.com.au/…/how-do-you-solve-a-proble… How do you solve a problem like Franklin the Gungahlin Maremma Sheepdog? And do you need to? He's been on the loose for at least three years but is cared for by the community and even has his own Facebook page. CANBERRATIMES.COM.AU Share Chronological Sue Moore, Floyd Kennedy and 2 others like this. Comments Floyd Kennedy Floyd Kennedy I dont think there is a problem. I remember many years ago there was a succesful 'save the franklin' campaign to stop the daming of the Franklin River in Tas. Maybe a 'leave Franklin alone' or 'let sleeping dogs lie' campaign is in order... 1 · January 19 at 10:05pm Meegan Fitzharris MLA Meegan Fitzharris MLA I tend to agree Floyd, leave him be. January 20 at 2:39am Les Parducci Les Parducci Let him be. He has clearly proven to be a docile giant in need of his own space. The Pastore Maremmano breed has been bred for thousands of years to be an independent livestock guardian. In winter in the Italian Pennines, shepherds would leave a Maremmano in charge of the flock, only to return in spring... 2 · January 20 at 3:43am My underlines and bolding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I worry with all the publicity, that someone nasty will harm him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I cannot believe the Minister is supporting leaving him roaming. Whatever her personal opinion it is clearly against the law. If I still lived there and was ever charged for one of my dogs roaming I would certainly be pointing out that the Minister has set a precedent for supporting it ETA I just commented on her FB page, I'll see if she responds. Edited January 23, 2016 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I cannot believe the Minister is supporting leaving him roaming. Unbelievable! Unnecessary, irresponsible & just plain lazy. And supporting something that's not legal. Not legal for very good reasons.... the dog's welfare, & road hazard for starters. There's a clear precedent in how the Qld bush-dwelling border collie was dealt with. In that case, not one single voice was raised in the region arguing for him to remain roaming free. Individuals & organizations just pitched in to resolve his situation. Is there something in the water, in the ACT, that strips some people of the responsibility button in their brain? Edited January 23, 2016 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Bloody idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy! I think he is better of where and as he is - the chances that someone nasty will hurt him is remote because he wont let them get close to him unless he knows them and already trusts them and why would anyone want to hurt him more than any other animal? He is living exactly as he is happiest - why poor boy? How would he be happier in rescue ? He is a guardian dog not a pet and clearly he thinks looking after the neighbourhood is his job - where is the harm? Chances of him getting run over are slim- he has managed to avoid it for a hell of a long time so far and just as a roo or a stray dog or a cat or even a child can be at risk jumping out in front of cars I don't see a greater risk for him. they are usually pretty smart road wise. No one who lives in the area is threatened by him or doesn't like him and I bet they are happy when they hear him bark at anything or anyone out of the ordinary . there is one in the states in similar situation that guards the whole town and they havent seen a Kyote for years. If your concerns are truly about what is best for the dog Id take the way he is living over being trapped and locked up and in unfamiliar company and circumstances. My oldest Maremma has been 17 and none have died of natural causes before their 15th birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Maybe you haven't read all the responses. There have been some people - one on a motorbike - that have come very close to nasty accidents becausevof him nit being very good on the roads. Among other things already mentioned, he should be caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I also fear for this dog. As Powerlegs has said someone nasty could harm him or as SG has said he could be poled by the rangers. I don't know how old Franklin is or the life expectancy of maremmas but I believe he was a mature dog when he was first at DAS and he has now been on the streets of Gungahlin for a few years - possibly seven or eight years old. I hope the people who have befriended him will show how much they care by making sure he finds his way to maremma rescue with as little trauma as possible. Poor boy! I think he is better of where and as he is - the chances that someone nasty will hurt him is remote because he wont let them get close to him unless he knows them and already trusts them and why would anyone want to hurt him more than any other animal? He is living exactly as he is happiest - why poor boy? How would he be happier in rescue ? He is a guardian dog not a pet and clearly he thinks looking after the neighbourhood is his job - where is the harm? Chances of him getting run over are slim- he has managed to avoid it for a hell of a long time so far and just as a roo or a stray dog or a cat or even a child can be at risk jumping out in front of cars I don't see a greater risk for him. they are usually pretty smart road wise. No one who lives in the area is threatened by him or doesn't like him and I bet they are happy when they hear him bark at anything or anyone out of the ordinary . there is one in the states in similar situation that guards the whole town and they havent seen a Kyote for years. If your concerns are truly about what is best for the dog Id take the way he is living over being trapped and locked up and in unfamiliar company and circumstances. My oldest Maremma has been 17 and none have died of natural causes before their 15th birthday. Firstly I will admit that I am not an expert and know nothing about maremmas except that they have been bred by people to protect sheep etc, but they are still dogs who have evolved to be dependent on people (Alexandra Horowitz - 'Inside of a Dog') and they need to belong to someone. They are not well equipped by evolution to fend for themselves. Secondly I say 'Poor boy' because he has no regular place to sleep, no-one to feed him regularly, and no-one to watch out for him in case he becomes unwell or is injured. I also say 'poor boy' because some selfish people are exploiting him to fulfill their own emotional needs by talking about him as being 'free' (whatever that means) and 'beautiful' and 'elusive' and describing him as a 'white ghost' i.e. trying to make up stories about him and to make him part of the folklore (along the lines of the 'Red Dog' story or even the Man-shy myth created by Frank Dalby Davison) of a new suburb with no stories. I have no idea what their motive is. I hope it is not to promote the value of their real estate investment. Next how do you know that he sees 'looking after the neighbourhood as his job'. Have you asked him? Even if he did the suburb Franklin is not a country town it has big houses on small blocks and busy roads. The boundaries between the suburbs are roads. I don't know how a dog (even if it was bred to look after a neighbourhood) could determine the boundaries if he was trying to guard and protect it. Similarly how do you know that he is happy? Have you asked him? Can a dog be happy as we understand it or is that being anthropomorphic? How do you know no-one in the neighbourhood is threatened by him? Many people have expressed concern about the safety of themselves, their children, and their dogs although I see that his facebook page (controlled by those promoting the urban myth) has been cleaned up this morning and their comments removed. Finally I found this video posted on DOL in September 2012 http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/241630-livestock-guardian-dogs/page__p__5959734__fromsearch__1#entry5959734 and I think it is interesting. Edited January 25, 2016 by sarspididious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now