Mast Cell Tumor

[Freisia]

My gorgeous 9 year old kelpie/blue cattle Sascha has a large Grade 2 MCT on her back thigh. It is under the skin showing a lump of about 3cm across. Vet advised surgery and chemo. Surgery will take most of the leg muscle and it will be a month before she can walk, over 3 before she can play ball etc. Vet says there is a possibility that will need to take the whole leg as can not the the depth of tumor until during surgery. Chemo would be for 6 months and will not kill the cancer - simply manage spread apparently.

Sash is so scared of the vet (pees herself on arrival) and is otherwise a happy healthy girl.

For me it is a quality of life issue - is it worth putting her through months of misery for no guarantees?

Edited January 13, 2016 by Freisia

[Xyz]

Have you seen an oncologist?

What grade is the MCT?

Even if the leg is amputated she will walk the next day, play ball in a week!!

I personally wouldn't do chemo with a dog that hates the vet, but depending on the grade removal of the tumour can be curative.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Xyz

[Freisia]

Have you seen an oncologist?

What grade is the MCT?

Even if the leg is amputated she will walk the next day, play ball in a week!!

I personally wouldn't do chemo with a dog that hates the vet, but depending on the grade removal of the tumour can be curative.

It is Grade 2. Have been referred to oncologist yet to meet - not keen on chemo

[trifecta]

This is an old thread which you may find informative:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/259547-stage-2-mast-cell-tumor-need-advice/

I am a bit pushed for time at the moment, but if I find any others which may be helpful, I'll pop back in.

[Willem]

I just watched a dog with one of its rear legs missing passing my house; he was actually pretty quick and from the distance it was even hard to recognize that a leg was missing as his running and walking seemed to be pretty natural. The tail was wagging, the dog was sniffing the trees and the owner had to make some effort to keep up with her dog... definitely a happy dog enjoying life. I watched them for quite a while and was surprised how little impact this missing leg had for the dog...might be different if it is a front leg so.

[Isabel964]

FreisiaI am so sorry to read of your kelpies diagnosis. Having my Westie diagnosed with a tumour in her spinal cord Tuesday evening, being recommended surgery and chemo, I too am going through this. My two first questions were

1. If we do surgery + chemo, what is the best case scenario?

2. If we do not do surgery and chemo what is the best case scenario?

I was told 6-8 months is the best case scenario with surgery and chemo, 3 months is the likely time she has left with no surgery or chemo.

That gave me infomration to weigh up - am I going to put my beautiful girl through surgery and chemo for a possible 3 month life extension or let her live out her life without treatment as best she can without the trauma of treatment.

Then I asked

What do they do in surgery, how do they get in side the spine to get to the tumour (they drill a hole through bone in the spine to make a window they operate through)

How major is the surgery and what is the recovery time, can the dog die? Recovery time tends to be 3 weeks before the dog can really walk again, sometimes more - some dogs never walk again after the surgery.

What is involved in the chemo, how many times, for how long (three weeks in Brisbane in a special facility)

That was enough for me.

We elected to not do surgery or chemo, and instead to give our girl the best quality of life.

with the help of this forum I found www.dogcancer.net.au and I called George and spoke to him - lovely guy, feel welcome to call him (number is on his website, know they are three hours behind Syd/Melb time) - he has lots of experience with dogs with cancer and helping people with it. Your dogs cancer is different to mine. He may be familiar with it.

Ive now started researching what foods are best to feed dogs living with cancer, seems cancer likes carbs and sugar..... if you google dog cancer you will find alot of info. George's website has heaps of information too. there are also vets who work in holistic medicine, acupuncture and more. I'm just finding all this out myself. Even if you do decide that surgery and/or chemo is best for your dog, the food you feed them is important, and all the alternative therapies can aid recovery. I met a lady in the pet store today when I was buying a harness, and she said apparently tumeric is amazing for dogs with cancer.

I wish you all the best with this difficult time and decisions to make. I send you and your kelpie hugs (I have a kelpie too).

[Freisia]

FreisiaI am so sorry to read of your kelpies diagnosis. Having my Westie diagnosed with a tumour in her spinal cord Tuesday evening, being recommended surgery and chemo, I too am going through this. My two first questions were

1. If we do surgery + chemo, what is the best case scenario?

2. If we do not do surgery and chemo what is the best case scenario?

I was told 6-8 months is the best case scenario with surgery and chemo, 3 months is the likely time she has left with no surgery or chemo.

That gave me infomration to weigh up - am I going to put my beautiful girl through surgery and chemo for a possible 3 month life extension or let her live out her life without treatment as best she can without the trauma of treatment.

Then I asked

What do they do in surgery, how do they get in side the spine to get to the tumour (they drill a hole through bone in the spine to make a window they operate through)

How major is the surgery and what is the recovery time, can the dog die? Recovery time tends to be 3 weeks before the dog can really walk again, sometimes more - some dogs never walk again after the surgery.

What is involved in the chemo, how many times, for how long (three weeks in Brisbane in a special facility)

That was enough for me.

We elected to not do surgery or chemo, and instead to give our girl the best quality of life.

with the help of this forum I found www.dogcancer.net.au and I called George and spoke to him - lovely guy, feel welcome to call him (number is on his website, know they are three hours behind Syd/Melb time) - he has lots of experience with dogs with cancer and helping people with it. Your dogs cancer is different to mine. He may be familiar with it.

Ive now started researching what foods are best to feed dogs living with cancer, seems cancer likes carbs and sugar..... if you google dog cancer you will find alot of info. George's website has heaps of information too. there are also vets who work in holistic medicine, acupuncture and more. I'm just finding all this out myself. Even if you do decide that surgery and/or chemo is best for your dog, the food you feed them is important, and all the alternative therapies can aid recovery. I met a lady in the pet store today when I was buying a harness, and she said apparently tumeric is amazing for dogs with cancer.

I wish you all the best with this difficult time and decisions to make. I send you and your kelpie hugs (I have a kelpie too).

Thank you for taking the time to give such a heart felt and detailed response. Given Sascha is 9 and oh so active, I am leaning towards ignoring the current advice of vet. I feel surgery and chemo would be for my benefit in order to prolong the time I have with her - rather than for her benefit.

I have also researched diet - and given I already cook for my pups, all I need to do is drop the carbs and add more fat and supplements. I do have an holistic vet coming tomorrow for a second opinion and more detailed advice.

Thank you for sharing your story. I understand the heart wrench of the decisions you have made on behalf of your loved one - and support you.

None of us get out of this life alive - I strongly believe the love, joy and quality with which we live is what makes it worth living.

Love to you and yours

[Rappie]

Has there been any staging done (bloods, urine testing, chest X-rays, abdominal ultrasound) or just a biopsy?

Not all grade 2 MCT behave in a malignant manner and pathologist will usually comment on this aspect in the histopathology report. In well differentiated grade 2 rumours with low mitotic index, clean surgical excision with margins can be curative. In poorly differentiate tumours they behave in a more malignant manner and chemotherapy is often required to follow up. If you are undecided then I would recommend that you pursue an oncology appointment - oncologists the best people to give you all the statistics and the most appropriate options available to you including surgical options. Going to see an oncologist does not mean that you have to pursue chemotherapy but it may help you to consolidate the information you have been given in order to make a decision.

There are oncologists at the main referral hospital - SASH, ARH and the University of Sydney.

[Isabel964]

Freisia you have a wonderful approach to things.

I am adding K9 supplement to Jindi's diet and one other thing I can't remember the name of. These boost the immune system and in some dogs seem to have a remarkable impact. George at www.dogcancer.net.au is sending to me, you just call him with a credit card - he is good to talk to, genuine and knowledgeable.

I also met a lady yesterday and her dog has bone cancer, was given 2 weeks to live 6 months ago, she has added tumeric to her dogs now natural diet.

You may (or not) be interested in a closed Facebook group called Tumeric User Group. It is for humans and furs living with cancer. This lady says Tumeric is amazing. If you want to request to join it, it's the group with around 150,000 users, it has a pivture of a seedling with two leaves on a light blue background. I don't know anything about it yet, I've just requested access to join the group myself.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Isabel964

[dogbesotted]

I would see and oncologist, I would also see a reputable holistic practioner ( I recommend All Natural vet Care.. they helped with my girl Lucinda when she was dxed with MCT grade 3. )

The best option is to remove the tumour with clean margins, remembering that a large tumour on a leg can interfere with quality of life. So do not reject out of hand and i have seen many many dogs who have full wonderful lives as tripods.. thye have a wonderful ability to just get on with squeezing the very best out of life

Cheers

Helen

[kayla1]

Personally, assuming it hasn't spread, I would probably opt for surgery.

One of my dogs Maxie had a soft tissue sarcoma removed. He had a CT scan first to make sure it hadn't spread. The surgery was very complicated due to the location of the tumour, so it meant removing a lot of tissue and rib, replacing the abdominal wall with mesh, and reconstructing with skin grafts. Maxie is really active and loves ball playing, so obviously I was beside myself with worry. But I needn't have been, because all went smoothly and Maxie was fine! The specialist surgeon got clean margins and the surgery was a complete success.

Of course he had restricted exercise during recovery. So I replaced all his toys with ones that had grip, so they wouldn't slip out of his mouth and he wouldn't be tempted to make any sudden movements to grab them. I started off just handing him the toys and not throwing them, then gradually built up to little throws, then bigger throws etc. I slept on a mattress on the floor in the lounge room for weeks so he wouldn't be tempted to jump on the bed etc. All up it was about three months before he was running without restriction. He was given the all clear a little bit sooner, but I held off for the three months for my own peace of mind!

So surgery has given Maxie quality, and quantity, of life. :)

As others have said, the best thing would be to see the oncologist to get all the information. Then you can make an informed decision. All the best.

[Isabel964]

Freesia, reading through this again, if I was in your situation, and if I had the opportunity to remove a leg and save Jibdi's life by removing the cancer, I would. As pointed out already, dogs really do learn to manage with three legs.

I don't have that option because Jindi's tumour us in her neck and intruding into the spinal cord.

All these decisions are harrowing, sending more hugs xo

[Boronia]

If you are going to buy Turmeric the best place is Country Park Herbs http://www.countrypark.com.au/

has a high % of curcumin

lovely deep ochre colour, not like supermarket stuff

Westiemum put me on to this company, they are lovely to deal with.

They are in NSW and Qld

Remember, herbal/holistic remedies can help with (perhaps) slowing down cancers but in most cases are not a cure. Modern methods like surgery, chemo and radiation therapy (where the little ba$tards are blasted to oblivion) do get excellent results

Edited January 17, 2016 by Boronia

[kdf]

I was in a very similar situation last year. My boy had 2 surgeries in 2013 to try and remove a soft tissue sarcoma on his front leg. Pathology came back the second time saying that we didn't get the margins again (really hard to on a skinny whippet front leg!) and that the cancer seemed to be more aggressive this time. I was given the option of a third surgery with us being really, really aggressive and trying to get margins and then doing radiation or amputation. I decided on amputation.

My boy turned 13 in November and we just celebrated 1 year post amputation last week. Surgery day was awful (for me, I was a wreck) but he coped amazingly well. He walked out of his hospital bed that first night and never looked back.

It's a very difficult decision to choose amputation and I agonised over it mainly because of his age. I don't regret anything about choosing amputation for Dal, he's adjusted so well and is still his normal happy self.

Every day with him is so special

Edited January 21, 2016 by kdf

[Tassie]

Lovely that your gorgeous boy has done so well with his amputation kdf ... and with a front leg. He certainly looks super happy and enjoying life to the full, bless him. Thanks for sharing.

[Staffyluv]

Have you seen an oncologist?

What grade is the MCT?

Even if the leg is amputated she will walk the next day, play ball in a week!!

I personally wouldn't do chemo with a dog that hates the vet, but depending on the grade removal of the tumour can be curative.

It is Grade 2. Have been referred to oncologist yet to meet - not keen on chemo

Have a look in the palliative care thread (here at the top of the health threads) - Ollie dog was my old SBT and he had MCT grade 2 - no clear margins on removal of multiple tumours.

We did 6 months of chemo (although I know there are much quicker and easier protocols now) and also treated holistically.

With no clear margins on removal, we were initially given 12-18 months for him.

He lived 6 years :)

We live in Canberra, our oncologist was Rob Straw in Brisbane (amazing man, can't recommend him enough) and our holistic vet was All Natural Vet Care in Sydney.

We liaised with these specialists via our vet here in town. All Ollie's test results were emailed through to the other vets.

Our holistic vet made sure she didn't prescribe anything that would interfere with the chemo.

Dogs and chemo - it's expensive!

However, they don't give dogs the doses they give humans and a lot of people get worried that their dogs will get sick or be like humans when on chemo.

That simply ins't the case!

The lower doses they give dogs, give them longer lives - rarely is chemo used as a 'cure' for dogs (because they can't give them the doses they give humans).

In humans chemo is given in such high doses that it kills all fast producing cells (including bone marrow - hence why so many humans on chemo, require bone marrow transplants).

However in dogs, the dose is much lower, so as not to kill off the bone marrow - because they don't do bone marrow transplants in dogs (well they do but it's even more expensive than the chemo)..

So the dose is much lower.

Ollie was a bit flat a few times after chemo but mostly he was fine.

He had a three week protocol with Vinblastin and Lomustein (spelling??)

Week one, blood test to make sure his cell count was high enough to have chemo - if it was, he would spend the day at the vets and have his chemo via drip.

Week two, blood test again and he would get 5 tablets.

Week three was nothing.

Then back to week one, week two etc.

For six months.

Holistically, he used to take high doses of vitamin C, Fish oil, Five Mushroom drops, Anti Ox, a few other things and some Chinese herbs.

His diet (because of chemo) was not raw food and we removed all starchy carbs and grains.

He did have steel cut oats in his food though because not all grains are created equal and some are actually good for keeping them healthy.

Have a read of Ollie's thread if you have time - all his info is in there but there has been huge headway made in MCT treatment since he was diagnosed.

I believe Palladia is one of the better treatments these days.

[Dave73]

You are in Sydney so you have access to some of the best oncologists in the world. I had my 5 yr old GSD diagnosed with a grade 3 haemangiosarcoma in the left hind leg. We had a 2 choices loose her in 2-3 months or amputate which we did and chemo and she lived happily for another 18 months. But obviously Grade 3 haemangio is in another league to grade 2 mast cell.

Our girl never was sick with chemo the only side effect was she lost her whiskers and her nails fell out ( which was a first apparently). She was amazing on 3 legs but our vet and surgeon did all the checks ct scan to check it wasnt the secondary which it wasnt checked all her joints etc. It was the second hardest decision of my life (1st was letting her go just on 1 year ago) to do the surgery but they assured me she would be fine and she was, but amputation may not be necassary.My normal vet said it was impossible to get margins and amputation wouldnt do it. Sash surgeons looked over her tests and came back with a definite yes to getting margins. These surgeons in the specialty centres are a cut above.

We also went to all natural vet and got a diet and list of vitamins and she regulary had chiro and acupunture.

My best advise is speak to your oncologist and go from there just go in with a open mind. and good luck

Edited January 30, 2016 by Dave73