Is My Itchy Dog Detoxing On New Raw Diet, Or Is He Still Allergic?

[kimbalilly]

Hello all. I've been scanning these forums hoping to find an exact answer to my woes, and although I've come across some really helpful info, I can't find exactly what I'm after. I'm hoping someone might be able to help me.

Here's an outline of events to date so far, in order:

- I adopted a 7 year old foxy x chi in March 2015. He was in a state - found un-microchipped as a stray, very underweight, fleas/flea allergy dermatitis, ear infection, kennel cough, all sorts.

- After having him a few weeks I noticed that supermarket bought dry and wet food didn't agree with his digestion (he would get diarrhoea a lot) so I began the process of finding some more suitable food for him. After trial and error, ultimately this became Canidae Bison limited ingredient grain free kibble. This was the only food that didn't make him scoot till his bum bled.

- In the meantime he made it clear he was also a very itchy dog (it was hard to tell at first because he was getting over fleas), and a few minor skin infections and trips to the vets for antibiotics proceeded.

- I assumed allergies, and made sure he followed a strict diet of only kibble to see if I could work out what it was. Fish didn't seem to agree with his digestion, chicken and duck seemed to make him more itchy. I tried Royal Canin hypoallergenic which only increased his itch levels. Again, the result was that Canidae Bison limited ingredient grain free kibble seemed to work best for him, but it still wasn't amazing.

- As a final push I took him to the vets again who prescribed steroids. These worked well but once he was off them the itching started up again.

- I took him back to the vets, and he was prescribed Atopica Cyclosporine. I was all for it at first, but I got home and read about the side effects and really didn't want to have my dog on such powerful immuno-suppressants for the rest of his (probably shortened by the drugs) life. So my next step of investigation into diet began

- I had read that a raw diet can help with allergy dogs, so I did some research and decided that kangaroo mince would be the best thing to start him on. I made a straight switch from kibble to kanga, with the idea that I'd feed him only this for 2 weeks, then introduce offal, then RMB, then veggies, staggered intros over a month or so.

- After having him on this diet for 4 days and his itching not seeming to get any better, I discovered a bloody flea on him! He's always been up to date on the dot with his flea treatment so I don't know where it came from. So now this brings me to today about a week later, where I'm trying to work out the following and don't know what next steps to take.

His current itching could be caused by:

1. Reaction to kanga

2. Flea bites from last week

3. Flea allergy dermatitis

4. Reaction to the flea rinse I used on him (even Aloveen bothers him)

5. Detoxing while on the raw diet

6. Something else altogether

I'm hesitant to go back to the same vet because she was quick to prescribe strong (not to mention very expensive medication) without first exploring all the dietary possibilities. Should I keep persisting with the raw kanga in the hope that this itching is him detoxing? Or should I switch to another raw meat? Or just back to his kibble? In the long run I was hoping to get him on Big Dog or Vets All Natural.

Am I doing something super wrong? It's so frustrating because I really just want the best for him and I'm trying so hard, it really upsets me to see him itching all the time.

I'd really appreciate some advice. The one person I know with an allergy dog suggested the raw diet to me because it basically cured her dog. I really had hoped I'd see some more immediate relief

Edited January 6, 2016 by kimbalilly

[Steph M]

Could it also be environmental? Something in the yard or house. Cleaning products, plants....

[Kavik]

Itchy dogs are very frustrating!

From my experiences with Diesel as an itchy dog, this is what I've learned:

For a food trial to see if it is a food type that is the problem, it has to be a novel protein and carb for 6? weeks. Or one of the special kibble types from the vet (eg Hills Z/D)

Changing to raw has helped my dog, he is not perfect now but better than he was. I also give him a supplement (Vet's All Natural Health Booster)

You can go to a specialist dermatologist to get tests done to find out exactly what the problems are (I haven't done this, but given my time over, I would have done it at the beginning)

Environmental issues can also be the problem, they can be harder to sort out - I have a feeling grass is part of our problem

Sometimes you can't fully resolve the problem, just have to manage it the best you can

[sas]

Food allergies are rare.

Ask your Vet for a referral to a Dermatologist so you can get some answers.

[kimbalilly]

Could it also be environmental? Something in the yard or house. Cleaning products, plants....

Hey Steph M, thanks for your reply! I've definitely wondered this, but I'm not sure it is for a few reasons. We don't tend to use a lot of chemicals, harsh or otherwise, in our house. I wondered if it was grass related, but he's been stuck indoors for 3 days with the rain we're getting in Sydney and he's still itchy. Plus his food intake does seem to make a difference...

[kimbalilly]

Itchy dogs are very frustrating!

From my experiences with Diesel as an itchy dog, this is what I've learned:

For a food trial to see if it is a food type that is the problem, it has to be a novel protein and carb for 6? weeks. Or one of the special kibble types from the vet (eg Hills Z/D)

Changing to raw has helped my dog, he is not perfect now but better than he was. I also give him a supplement (Vet's All Natural Health Booster)

You can go to a specialist dermatologist to get tests done to find out exactly what the problems are (I haven't done this, but given my time over, I would have done it at the beginning)

Environmental issues can also be the problem, they can be harder to sort out - I have a feeling grass is part of our problem

Sometimes you can't fully resolve the problem, just have to manage it the best you can

Thanks for the reply Kavik!

I've done the food trial a couple of times. With prescription royal canin hypo allergenic, and then with canidae bison. It's really helpful to see what some of the triggers are. I've had the Z/D suggested to me before, but knowing he's not good with chicken I'm unsure as to whether this is the right option for him. Plus I barely recognise any of the ingredients.

What raw food do you feed your pup?

I'm thinking maybe a dermatologist might be best. I'm more than happy to try and manage it to whatever extent that involves, but I don't think I want him on Atopica. It doesn't fill me with confidence, and I wouldn't accept that option as the only option for my own health, so I probably shouldn't accept it for Charlie either...

Edited January 6, 2016 by kimbalilly

[Willem]

mosquitos?...they are everywhere at the moment.

[kimbalilly]

Food allergies are rare.

Ask your Vet for a referral to a Dermatologist so you can get some answers.

Thanks for the reply sas!

I think I might do that.

Can anyone give me an indication of how much a trip to the dermatologist might cost? I'll spend what I have to, but might need to save first if it's exxy.

[kimbalilly]

mosquitos?...they are everywhere at the moment.

Pretty sure it's not mozzies Willem. I've never even seen one near him. I tend to be their preference anyway ;)

[persephone]

itchy dogs

I lived with one who was allergic to many grasses /artificial food colourings /pollen.

he just had anti histamines/prednisolone every 2nd day ..plus the addition of Vit C (injections) and some kinesiology . Diet was all sorts of vege peelings - cooked , plus many types of raw meat /bones .

TThe itches never ever went completely - but he died at around age 12 , after 10 yrs on that regime ..and was active and happy for 98 % of that time .

Edited January 6, 2016 by persephone

[mackiemad]

If he had a flea on him he could still be itchy from the flea allergy dermatitis - have you tried a different flea preventative? Certain types work better for different areas in my experience. Down at coastal Melbourne where j work the sand fleas are pretty well immune to frontline, advantage bit respond really well to comfortis or revolution.

Even if it is a contact allergy (like grass, my dog's allergic to Kikuyu) he can still itch for a good few days after coming in contact - so having not been on grass for a few days and still itching is possible.

It sucks looking at them itch constantly. I give my boy a digestive supplement and omega oil both from Natural Animal Solutions which seem to really help him along with diet and controlling the environment.

[Mishki]

Have you tried switching proteins? Do you use any chemicals around the house? Is it possible its seasonal?

[karly101]

Firstly food allergies causing itchyness is actually NOT common but most dermatologists do use a diet trial to rule it out. Usually it's a home made diet with a new protein + carb source that your dog hasn't had before. You can use the z/d or royal canin analergenic but the derms I've seen prefer home made.

Don't believe all you read on the internet on cyclosporin - it's been around for a long time, is very well tested and studied. It can't be compared to human use....after being on it for a little while you can try and reduce the dose as well until you get them to a level that's comfortable. It's most common side effect is GI upset. (http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/174/Suppl_2/3.full) For my boy it's the only thing that has given him relief and he is on it every day for half the year and I can get it down to one every 3 days when his allergies are less. YES it is expensive but its cheaper than constantly dealing with skin infections and an uncomfortable itchy dog.

I recommend a referral to a dermatologist - they deal with this all the time and will put you on a step by step plan to get a diagnosis and treatment that will work.

[kimbalilly]

Thanks all for your replies. I haven't been getting notifications for some reason so apologies for not being responsive!

I may try a different flea treatment. I like my current set up of Advantix and Interceptor because it seems to cover everything, but maybe it's time to switch it up.

I will definitely get a referral to a dermatologist. I think for my peace of mind knowing what's making him itch will be helpful. If it's not food related then I can stop tearing my hair out to try and figure out a diet that works for him! If push comes to shove then I'll give cyclosporin another go. His digestion didn't seem too affected for the 2 days he was on it.

Can anyone give me an idea of how much initial consults cost?

[JulesP]

Does he look like he has dry skin? Does he get a rash at all? If so were is the rash? Is he itching all over?

[persephone]

...something to consider .

perhaps try using LESS chemicals ?

Does he really need to have flea/worm treatment each month? is there another way , perhaps , to help his system be stronger ?

Maybe keep up with HW prevention if you live in an area that needs it - worm him less frequently with a dedicated wormer ..and treat fleas with diatomaceous earth or something??

[Charjas]

1452056344[/url]' post='6778589']

itchy dogs

I lived with one who was allergic to many grasses /artificial food colourings /pollen.

he just had anti histamines/prednisolone every 2nd day ..plus the addition of Vit C (injections) and some kinesiology . Diet was all sorts of vege peelings - cooked , plus many types of raw meat /bones .

TThe itches never ever went completely - but he died at around age 12 , after 10 yrs on that regime ..and was active and happy for 98 % of that time .

Haven't been on forum for a while but I used to post my woes about Jasper, silver toy poodle, constantly licking feet and removing all hair due to ???? Who would know. Tried many different foods. Creams .. Don't use chemicals in the house. Yard fairly small and grass. Fenced off garden so he couldn't run through. Walked him on path not grass. Then after so much frustration , changed his diet , no kibble. Full of additives. He eats fresh chicken and some veg. But. For past 12 months he's had 1/2 prednisone every 3 rd day. Not touched his feet until this December I put frontline plus on. 2 days later vomitting and licked hair off back foot. Now I know what it was. Every month I'd been topping him up with it. Not any more. His foot has healed and his cone is off. So the tablets were the only thing that helped. He'd been wearing a cone for 3 years.

[persephone]

itchy dogs

I lived with one who was allergic to many grasses /artificial food colourings /pollen.

he just had anti histamines/prednisolone every 2nd day ..plus the addition of Vit C (injections) and some kinesiology . Diet was all sorts of vege peelings - cooked , plus many types of raw meat /bones .

TThe itches never ever went completely - but he died at around age 12 , after 10 yrs on that regime ..and was active and happy for 98 % of that time .

Haven't been on forum for a while but I used to post my woes about Jasper, silver toy poodle, constantly licking feet and removing all hair due to ???? Who would know. Tried many different foods. Creams .. Don't use chemicals in the house. Yard fairly small and grass. Fenced off garden so he couldn't run through. Walked him on path not grass. Then after so much frustration , changed his diet , no kibble. Full of additives. He eats fresh chicken and some veg. But. For past 12 months he's had 1/2 prednisone every 3 rd day. Not touched his feet until this December I put frontline plus on. 2 days later vomitting and licked hair off back foot. Now I know what it was. Every month I'd been topping him up with it. Not any more. His foot has healed and his cone is off. So the tablets were the only thing that helped. He'd been wearing a cone for 3 years.

:) Hi ! I remember the trouble you and your boy had ...and am very glad he is now happier!

back when I had Mitchell .. we didn't use the spot on things - it was just malawash if/when a flea was seen ....

[valbitz]

Thanks all for your replies. I haven't been getting notifications for some reason so apologies for not being responsive!

I may try a different flea treatment. I like my current set up of Advantix and Interceptor because it seems to cover everything, but maybe it's time to switch it up.

I will definitely get a referral to a dermatologist. I think for my peace of mind knowing what's making him itch will be helpful. If it's not food related then I can stop tearing my hair out to try and figure out a diet that works for him! If push comes to shove then I'll give cyclosporin another go. His digestion didn't seem too affected for the 2 days he was on it.

Can anyone give me an idea of how much initial consults cost?

I have no idea what the costs in Sydney are this is the cost for Melbourne, but it gives you somewhere to start.

Initial consultation is approx 1 hour $127.50

Skin scraping to check for mites and yeast done during initial consult $60

Pin Prick test $400 - this is not done until after a food elimination diet has been tried so not during the first consultation.

Follow up consultations are in the vicinity of $70, and there will be follow up appointments.

If you have a place in mind you could always email or call and ask how much the consult is.

[lisacourt]

My pup got really itchy when we changed his diet to a grain free one. He used to scratch it raw, so we rubbed a paw balm I got online on his red itchy spots and it cleared up over time