Purebred Versions Of "designer Breeds"

[teekay]

Yeah I find that the most disconcerting thing about "designer breeds"...

That they will get dumped or neglected along with last years fashion jeans and shoes.

The people who want these dogs have no clue about how to look after a dog. Some are willing to learn but some just think the dog will adapt to their needs with no input or effort from them. And they absolutely choose for appearance and the "back story" - work of fiction on the part of the breeder about what the dog will be like.

This is the kind of BS the cross breeders are peddling:

Ideal for all owners

reducing the health issues associated (with the pedigree part of the cross)

loads of character

they don’t need to be walked too often

low shedding

a range of gorgeous colours

affectionate, gentle and intelligent small sized dog

content around the home

What could possibly go wrong?

Wow, some serious stereotyping there Mrs RB. I bought a designer breed 6 years ago now. Obviously I wouldn't do it again knowing what I know now, but your descriprion of the 'kind of people' who buy designer breeds is insulting to say the least. I wil certsinly not defend indiscriminate cross breeding, for designer breeds or othetwise but I do disagree that designer breeds are high on the dump list. Having worked in a shelter, we very rarely saw designer breeds I'm there. The majority of dogs were bull breed crosses, kelpie crosses and bc crosses, all I imagine back yard bred.

[Simply Grand]

I've meant plenty of people with pure pred (or what they believe are pure bred) dogs who had no idea what they were getting into, no idea about the temperament of the breed they were getting, the breed traits, the grooming requirements, the training requirements, exercise requirements etc, who wanted that breed based on looks, that is far from exclusive to people who buy "designer breeds".

And I've met plenty of "designer breed" owners who did know what they were looking for and are responsible and dedicated owners. I have one, a "Moodle" (no I don't call him that myself, he's a poodle x) so I talk to a lot of other owners when we're out and about, I'm in an FB group with 300 of them so I see how they treat their dogs.

Say what people will about the consequences of cross breeding on the health and well being of the animals, for sure, but singling out the owners as any worse or better than any other group of owners is inaccurate and unhelpful.

[Salukifan]

I've meant plenty of people with pure pred (or what they believe are pure bred) dogs who had no idea what they were getting into, no idea about the temperament of the breed they were getting, the breed traits, the grooming requirements, the training requirements, exercise requirements etc, who wanted that breed based on looks, that is far from exclusive to people who buy "designer breeds".

The difference of course is that first group are guilty of lack of research. The second group, on the other hand, are also cursed by lack of predictability in the dogs they bought.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Obviously I wouldn't do it again knowing what I know now

That's my point.

you are probably right about them not ending up at pounds so much... or getting adopted soon after.

However they do get neglected, untrained and impossible to live with. Maybe their owners have a little bit more money so can afford to find other ways to deal with their problem dog than dump them at the pound. My brother ended up with a GR x this way but he couldn't train it any better than the original owners who thought it would be a good companion to their autistic child. The dog was not supposed to grow bigger than a standard poodle.

So my experience with the poodle x is really bad. The ones I meet at the park and the beach, very few are well trained. Tho with only 7% of dogs registered in SA receiving the "trained dog" discount - maybe I just have a conformation bias and they're all crap. And don't get me started on my neighbour's poodle cross. Sigh. One good thing - it barks so much that all barking within ear shot of its house - gets blamed on it.

And I've seen photos of what ends up at the groomers with these non-shedding coats. Obviously only need clipping twice a year? And claw trim - why would we do that? The dog might not be in the pound but maybe it would be better off there where at least (the SA pounds) some questions are asked about the new home and support is provided.

[Roova]

My sister has two oodles she adopted from the pound. I pushed the purebred avenue very strongly with all the usual arguments but she has a number of friends with oodles and was convinced that's what she wanted. She sat on the pound waiting list for at least six months!

She's had her dogs for at least five years and I have to admit they are pretty awesome dogs. They dont have a mean bone in their body torward anyone or thing and they are awesome with the kids. She has them groomed regularly, they're walked and run daily but that's about it. No doubt a purebred would have done a good job too, but these guys have been wonderful family members. Unfortunately?? they've encouraged dogless friends to go for oodles and I can see why.

I couldn't do it myself but I can understand the attraction. Even with a loss of predictability in looks they do seem to have gentle nature's across the board (well I haven't heard of many aggressive oodles anyway).

[BarbedWire]

Deleted because no-one is allowed to insult my dog.

Edited January 6, 2016 by sarspididious

[gillybob]

I had a thread here talking about a bassetxLab he called them Bassadors.

I had a major argument with the seller, what a nasty person he was.

It looked a bit like a black fauve from a distance. Can you imagine that dog and the traits it will have.

It made me angry to know a basset and a Lab were being used like that.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Please don't generalize about the owners of designer bred dogs or about the dogs themselves. I am the owner of a designer bred dog (toy poodle x pug) picked up from a pound at 8 months old for $100.

Are you sure that's what it is? How do you know?

Usually I avoid generalisations. Some poodle x have fantastic owners and certainly most of them are very intelligent which can be bad if they're untrained or have been busy training their humans to let them get away with murder (neighbour's dog for example).

And yes I've met more than one super aggressive poodle x. I've also met aggressive Labs and Golden Retrievers. Mostly because they've been allowed to barge up uninvited to every single dog they see and eventually when their puppy licence expires - have a very bad experience that turns them into a nasty dog.

I've yet to find a poodle x breeder that actually delivers on their promises. And that isn't a puppy mill. That the dogs in that environment - get enough human contact and socialisation with other dogs and stay with their litter and mother long enough to learn good manners.

I met a 10 week old French Bulldog at the beach the other day that was pretty much house trained when they got it home thanks to its breeder. I don't know of anyone doing that with poodle x etc. They don't do the dna tests to avoid PRA in the puppies or the hip tests to avoid hip problems.

Steve MBA might disagree but that might be the "breed in development" - I don't know anything about those.

And some ANKC breeders are just as bad when it comes to raising puppies, but most of them do the right thing. I can't say that about poodle x and etc breeders.

And someone who buys one of those - what are they rewarding by that?

[BarbedWire]

Please don't generalize about the owners of designer bred dogs or about the dogs themselves. I am the owner of a designer bred dog (toy poodle x pug) picked up from a pound at 8 months old for $100.

Are you sure that's what it is? How do you know?

First of all she is not an 'it'. Her name is Beatrix. I have no reason to doubt that she is as claimed. Her microchip says that she is a toy poodle x pug and she was handed in for rehoming and only had the one previous owner who said the same about her origins. People who pay big bucks for their designer bred dogs only have the sellers' word for their dogs' origins. So yes I am as sure about my dog's origins as is any owner of a designer bred dog.

[Simply Grand]

I really don't like to rely on anecdotal evidence or the experience of individuals to make generalisations, but just address one of your points Mrs RB, Saxon (my poodle x) isn't from a puppy mill. I visited the home he was bred in twice, met both his parents, his litter, the breeder, her husband, their three children and several of the children's friends, who were all involved in playing with and handling the pups. I'd say Saxon had more thorough early socialisation (as in handling, exposure to different types of people, different sounds, different surfaces, and new experiences in general) than either of my pure breeds. I got exactly what I wanted and was told I would get. So just because you haven't come across it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I was very lucky. I know that, and I have never once said to someone who likes Saxon or says that they want a dog like him that they should get a "Moodle". I explain the unpredictability, I explain the lack of health testing, I explain that if you cannot go and see for yourself, as I did ,how the puppies and parents are raised that you are likely to be supporting a puppy mill, and what that means for the parents of your cute puppy, and the puppy itself.

As I've said before in other threads, I think saying to people that ANKC breeders are the only way to go and anyone else does things wrong and people are wrong to buy from them doesn't achieve anything. If everyone just focussed on what the right things to are, then everyone's breeding practices would speak for themselves.

ETA the only reason I wouldn't go back to Saxon's breeder if I wanted another dog like him, or recommend her to other people is that as far as I'm aware they don't health check, which I think is really important, and she let me take him at 6.5 weeks (I didn't know any better), and I don't know if that is/was her standard practice, but I also think it is really important that litters stay with mum til 8weeks.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Simply Grand

[teekay]

Obviously I wouldn't do it again knowing what I know now

That's my point.

you are probably right about them not ending up at pounds so much... or getting adopted soon after.

However they do get neglected, untrained and impossible to live with. Maybe their owners have a little bit more money so can afford to find other ways to deal with their problem dog than dump them at the pound. My brother ended up with a GR x this way but he couldn't train it any better than the original owners who thought it would be a good companion to their autistic child. The dog was not supposed to grow bigger than a standard poodle.

So my experience with the poodle x is really bad. The ones I meet at the park and the beach, very few are well trained. Tho with only 7% of dogs registered in SA receiving the "trained dog" discount - maybe I just have a conformation bias and they're all crap. And don't get me started on my neighbour's poodle cross. Sigh. One good thing - it barks so much that all barking within ear shot of its house - gets blamed on it.

And I've seen photos of what ends up at the groomers with these non-shedding coats. Obviously only need clipping twice a year? And claw trim - why would we do that? The dog might not be in the pound but maybe it would be better off there where at least (the SA pounds) some questions are asked about the new home and support is provided.

I wouldn't do it again now, not because I'm a better dog owner but because I am now aware of where most designer dogs come from so I'm not sure that was your point. All my dogs; designer, rescue and registered pure bred have all had the same love and care and commitment

[JulesP]

My puppy classes used to be full of oodles. Most of them were very clever, too clever for their owners :laugh: So probably not correct to say that their owners are all dodgy.

When a friend wanted an oodle, a bigger one, I tried to get her to buy a standard poodle but she wouldn't buy a poodle. She got her oodle. She 100% wanted this dog because of what it looked like. She wanted a scruffy, shaggy dog. Of course she was told the puppy's parents lived on a farm. (eyeroll). Then one day when we were out we came across 2 chocolate standard poodles not in clip. She loved them! grrrr

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I am now aware of where most designer dogs come from

I don't know how to say this without offending lots of people...

you're much better informed. your love and best intentions and your care for your dogs are all better informed now and your choices in the future will be better. Doesn't that make you a better dog owner?

And the opposite of "clueless" is "well informed/educated".

If people were well informed about dogs in petshops and the designer crosses, the care or lack of it and health testing or lack of it... they wouldn't support that industry.

If people were well informed about dog body language and social interactions, they would train their poodle crosses and not let them get in the faces of other dogs uninvited.

I guess nobody is perfect but there are better ways of doing things. Simply Grand got nearly everything you'd want in a dog breeder except the health testing. And the health testing - to me it's a sign of the breeder being well informed and doing the best they can to reduce the chance of health problems in their puppies. Hopefully they get the other things like training right too but it's not a guarantee.

[sandgrubber]

There is a HUGE difference between the F1 hybrid cross and a breed.

Most of the 'oodles and doodles and puggles and chiweenies and all that stuff WILL NOT BREED TRUE. The F1 generation is relatively predictable. Future generations are not. You have to do a lot of selection to end out with consistent traits. And if you don't start out with a large stable of dogs to begin with you're likely to end out with a lot of inbreeding before you get to a consistent breed.

I would love to see some breeds modified by well thought out crossing. But willy-nilly cross bteeding and selling for high prices (ie., most designer dogs) is profiteering first, dog breeding second.

[karen15]

There was a lab poodle cross at puppy preschool. Not a nice looking dog at all. Poorly put together. Owner seemed pretty clueless when desexing was discussed, asking if it was necessary for a female dog... Apparently this glowing specimen wasn't going to be desexed as the breeder wanted a litter from her - due to her colour..... She was caramel according to the owner.

ETA there were other designer crosses there that were pretty gorgeous and nice looking little dogs. Mostly shitzu crosses.

Edited January 6, 2016 by karen15

[teekay]

I am now aware of where most designer dogs come from

I don't know how to say this without offending lots of people...

you're much better informed. your love and best intentions and your care for your dogs are all better informed now and your choices in the future will be better. Doesn't that make you a better dog owner?

And the opposite of "clueless" is "well informed/educated".

If people were well informed about dogs in petshops and the designer crosses, the care or lack of it and health testing or lack of it... they wouldn't support that industry.

If people were well informed about dog body language and social interactions, they would train their poodle crosses and not let them get in the faces of other dogs uninvited.

I guess nobody is perfect but there are better ways of doing things. Simply Grand got nearly everything you'd want in a dog breeder except the health testing. And the health testing - to me it's a sign of the breeder being well informed and doing the best they can to reduce the chance of health problems in their puppies. Hopefully they get the other things like training right too but it's not a guarantee.

It makes be a more informed dog owner but no, not a better dog owner. With regard to care for my dogs, that hasn't changed. Can I just quote the paragraph that I took issue with. Massive generalisation and wholly inaccurate in many cases.

The people who want these dogs have no clue about how to look after a dog. Some are willing to learn but some just think the dog will adapt to their needs with no input or effort from them. And they absolutely choose for appearance and the "back story" - work of fiction on the part of the breeder about what the dog will be like.

[megan_]

Yip teekay. My oodle lives a much better life than most dogs I know. He is well trained, does agility, clicker training etc. Has done so since I got him. I got him because I was ignorant about puppy farms, not because I wanted a lawn ornament. Getting a PB dog doesn't mean someone is educated either.