Field Labradors Versus Show Labradors .

[The Spotted Devil]

Forums/blogs linked have been based overseas. Do you have any Australian sites that reflect what is going on here? If you are so keen then become involved in your club and make it happen. None of us participating in this discussion thus far breed Labs (that I know of) so I imagine that's why there's not a lot of support. If it ain't broke and all that.

ETA: The different field lines are interbred at times. Should we split that? And yes I do know of working Gundog breeders who will bring in show lines to fix something.

Edited December 20, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[tdierikx]

I don't see the problem here... they are all Labradors... just that some lines are bred for different purposes is all.

If you want a family pet, go for the breeders who advertise theirs as such, and ignore those that don't... simples!

T.

[Salukifan]

I've learned the hard way to avoid breed politics in any breeds but my own.

However I think it is testament to the versatility of the Labrador Retriever that it can be so many things to different people within the one breed standard. Breed styles are simply breeders placing different emphasis on different aspects of the breed standard.

Ideally breeders breed for form AND function - that's my take on it.

[Dewclaws]

Haredown whippet supposedly many years ago cairn terriers were originally going to be called short haired sky terriers but the sky terrier enthusiasts were outraged! Thus they got their name cairn terriers .

So breed politics have been around a long time !! Lol.

Ultimately I do think the lavrador breed will develop differently . From what I can see most a australian field labrador breeders get stock from the USA so Australia's development is closely linked to the USA development , I am sure it will all work out . But even this thread has shown emotions get high .

It would be interesting to know how both 'sides' feel .

[The Spotted Devil]

Actually that's not the case. There are breeders of field bred Labs from Australian, US and UK lines.

[JRG]

As long as "show" breeders and "field" breeders aim to enhance different aspects of the breed there will be a split between the two types. The argument is who is in the "right"

- make your own judgement. Just take a look at a working dog and a show dog of the same breed and make a list of the qualities you find in one type you would ideally like in the other type.

[aussielover]

I don't think there are enough field Labradors in Australia to justify being a separate breed.

If I were in the market for another lab i would like one from adderslot who breed American working lines. There are few in dog sports homes that I have met and they are great dogs. Perhaps not suitable for an average backyard dog but then I don't believe labs thrive In that sort of environment no matter what the breeding. They are really a breed that thrive when they have a job to do- hence their versatility and use as many different types of working dogs. The structure and temperament may vary slightly depending on the specific job they were bred for but all definitely recognizable as labs.

[aussielover]

This is my Labs grandfather

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=53139

This is a field lab from a reputable breeder

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=black+field+labrador&oq=black+fiekd+labeador&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l2.8371j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=jxcRtehcDxF47M%3A

They look like different breed!How can they go under the same standard without the standard being a farce ?

I disagree. They are both easily recognizable as Labradors. If anything the show one is tending toward a more Rottweiler type look, and the field one more like a GSP look but I would say the average person would identify both as labs.

Also the show one is in show condition and the field dog in working condition so not really fair to compare.

[moosmum]

I think the variety in types and purpose is great!

If a breeder is having trouble with a trait either way, or wants to add one for a specific reason, there are alternate sources to look to, to correct, add or override and still have a Lab.

[workcocker1983]

I don't think there are enough field Labradors in Australia to justify being a separate breed.

If I were in the market for another lab i would like one from adderslot who breed American working lines. There are few in dog sports homes that I have met and they are great dogs. Perhaps not suitable for an average backyard dog but then I don't believe labs thrive In that sort of environment no matter what the breeding. They are really a breed that thrive when they have a job to do- hence their versatility and use as many different types of working dogs. The structure and temperament may vary slightly depending on the specific job they were bred for but all definitely recognizable as labs.

There isn't enough. I recall reading somewhere that a breed population needs to be greater than 500 to be viable. But what happens if a person imports a dog from a country where the two types are recognised as the same breed? Who decides which breed register it goes on? What happens if the people if the people with uk lines want to have their own breed seperate from the American lines?

The register works fine now, why change it!

[melzawelza]

Because limiting already limited gene pools further is only going to have a positive impact on health...

[sheena]

Because limiting already limited gene pools further is only going to have a positive impact on health...

Or do you mean negative impact on health :)

[espinay2]

I find Labradors an interesting breed. They have an interesting and varied history. There has always been a fair amount of variation in the style of dog. This is a very interesting speech by renowned Labrador breeder (both show and field), the late Mary Roslin Williams that is well worth listening to:

I can highly recommend her book too if you can get a copy (it is out of print but worth paying the money if you find one) - "Reaching for the Stars: Formerly Advanced Labrador Breeding"

Edited December 20, 2015 by espinay2

[Rebanne]

Because limiting already limited gene pools further is only going to have a positive impact on health...

Or do you mean negative impact on health :)

I think Melzawelza had tongue firmly planted in cheek :laugh:

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I find Labradors an interesting breed. They have an interesting and varied history. There has always been a fair amount of variation in the style of dog. This is a very interesting speech by renowned Labrador breeder (both show and field), the late Mary Roslin Williams that is well worth listening to:

I can highly recommend her book too if you can get a copy (it is out of print but worth paying the money if you find one) - "Reaching for the Stars: Formerly Advanced Labrador Breeding"

Listen to the lecture Espinay just posted. It will tell you more about the history of your breed and the reasons for variations in styles than any forum and the lecturer is a hugely influential figure in Labs. Even if you don't have labs, but have another breed, it is an excellent listen for anyone wanting to reflect on type and function in their own breed.

[FHRP]

From what I can see most a australian field labrador breeders get stock from the USA so Australia's development is closely linked to the USA development , I am sure it will all work out . But even this thread has shown emotions get high .

My limited observations from 10-12 years in retrieving trials are that Labradors bred for retrieving trials and working homes in Australia are largely UK, Irish and Australian lines. American field trial lines are a relatively recent trend to take off, and again quite different in type to 'Australian working Labs'. Admittedly in competition homes the US field bred dogs are popular and more performance breeders are using them.

As has been at least alluded to already in the thread, it could be considered that the 'show Lab' is as far removed from the original standard as 'field Labs' are. Showing is directly assessing the physical appearance, without assessment of function, so physical trends and exaggerations being rewarded by judges may be perpetuated without consideration for impact on the original purpose of the dog. Just as good working attributes may be perpetuated without consideration for appearance or conformation to the breed standard. Standards change over the years, usually to suit what's in the show ring as they are the one's being assessed against it. If you want to split the breed I'd suggest that neither extremes keep the name Labrador. Show Labrador and Field Labrador?? But what about the Australian working Labs that look nothing like US field Labs but never set foot in a show ring? Or breeders that do both sports? The extremes are easy, but not all Labs fit nicely into these two categories.

Why would you want to enforce limitation of gene pools in a breed that already has genetic issues? Although you're unlikely to get a breeder to cross the two extremes of Labrador, there are others that strive to produce a Labrador fit for all purposes, that is healthy as possible, and may take lines from all areas.

[melzawelza]

Because limiting already limited gene pools further is only going to have a positive impact on health...

Or do you mean negative impact on health :)

I think Melzawelza had tongue firmly planted in cheek :laugh:

Yep :laugh:

[Lablover]

Hi all.

I am getting my long awaited for lab puppy in a couple of weeks . Naturally I have sort of became totally obsessed with the breed ,different training techniques Ect . What I can sort of expect . Many times it's mentioned different 'types of labradors ' the working lines and the show bred lines and a mixture in between . I am a bit befuddled how some very different pedigree dogs that come under the same breed standard can look and act so different yet still be considered the same .

For example the rough and smooth collies only difference in length of coat , yet on dogzonline they are listed as different breeds and not showed together .

Yet there is currently a puppy listing in labradors who say their working field labradors are not suitable as family pets , yet a listing just underneath say they breed labradors that make wonderful family pets which are show types .

Is in the main object with breeding is for consistency and to improve the breed? Yet it seems some labrador breeders have different objectives .

Why are some breed types divided due to more benign reasons (like coat length ) or size (three types of poodles ) yet a more significant difference like energy levels and drive plus a totally different appearance in body shape (field labs tend to be leaner , leggier and thinner faces ) don't get divided .

It would certainly make people finding a suitable lab for their needs easier .

I have been on some usa lab forums and there it's even more confusing . They call their working labs 'American labradors ' and there deffinetly seems to be bigger challenges for them finding a suitable pup .

Any opinions ?

Congratulations on your new puppy. What are your plans for your puppy. Why did you pick a Labrador RETRIEVER?

You mention a current advertisement on Dogzonline, which I believe is mine. Adderslot litter?

In Europe and America, they are differentiated by field and show. I do not know of one successful field bitch owner in either UK or US who would breed to a non working/field stud dog. The thought would not enter their minds. Diluting working traits.....o the horror! Buyers know of the differences overseas, not so much for obvious reasons in Australia.

I do not breed for the pet market. Not that they do not make great pets, they do. Would simply be a waste of working field genes. I breed for working traits and most pet owners have a bias towards what they have seen/know.

I do not use any Australian stud in my breeding program. My choice, my "selection". My money.

There are extremes both pros and cons on both sides. They are all Labradors, but different!

Edited December 21, 2015 by Lablover

[Lablover]

I don't think there are enough field Labradors in Australia to justify being a separate breed.

If I were in the market for another lab i would like one from adderslot who breed American working lines. There are few in dog sports homes that I have met and they are great dogs. Perhaps not suitable for an average backyard dog but then I don't believe labs thrive In that sort of environment no matter what the breeding. They are really a breed that thrive when they have a job to do- hence their versatility and use as many different types of working dogs. The structure and temperament may vary slightly depending on the specific job they were bred for but all definitely recognizable as labs.

Thanks. Must meet you one day.

[sunny1shine]

I'm relatively new to owning labs, 3 years in and have 2. I love the versatility of the breed and from what I've met I sway towards the more athletic, higher drive labs.

I love that the breed is able to fill the role of high drive customs dogs and also guide dogs.

I love breeders that know what role their dogs will excel at and ensure their dogs are paired with owners that want the same.

It is interesting that the show line labs are referred to as English and the athletic ones as American especially as the nicest field type labs I've seen come from England - I need to meet an adderslot lab as I've not met one from American lines before and theirs look fantastic.

Edited December 21, 2015 by sunny1shine