JulesP Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I know thar Rebbane but there are registered lab breeders on dogzonline who will not sell to pet homes due to them being unsuitable . Ideally a lab should be able 'all rounder ' which luckily my pup is his nz bred father comes from both a working and showing breeder . Yet some lab breeders are producing dogs that more further removed from the standard and have so much drive that they need to work to be happy . They would be totally unsuitable for a guide dog as an example . But a Guide Dog is NOT the original purpose. Good on those breeders for saying their dogs are not suited to pet homes. Yep and if this becomes another breeder bashing thread by a newbie I am going to get VERY shitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Don't the guide dogs of Australia have their own breeding program and criteria? Same with the border force customs dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Oh yes the typical dogz online snarkiness coming in lol . I am not a newbie . Different profile due to old email a dress not being used anymore . Where am I criticizing breeders? I think it's excellent that field lab breeders are making a it very clear that these animals have high drive . It's extremely responsible of them . My point is wouldn't they themselves prefer a clear separate distinction?. So on dogzonline you would have labradors , then underneath field labradors . Because it's not just a physical difference but a temprement difference . My point with guide dogs was that it shows the massive spectrum in labador temperaments . What they originally were bred to do seem defunct now when you have such widely different dogs all called labradors . Surely field labrador breeders would like to 'own ' their type with a more descriptive name ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Many registered labrador breeders send puppies to the different guide dogs society's around australia . They breed some and buy some . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) Guide Dogs certainly do have their own program - a lot of the heads are very "un-Lab-like"!!!! Customs partly use American field bred Labs and also have their own program. Last I heard anyway. Field-bred or working lines works fine as a description. A lot of breeds have splits - it would start getting unmanageable as there would be splits within splits. Edited December 20, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Oh yes the typical dogz online snarkiness coming in lol . I am not a newbie . Different profile due to old email a dress not being used anymore . Where am I criticizing breeders? I think it's excellent that field lab breeders are making a it very clear that these animals have high drive . It's extremely responsible of them . My point is wouldn't they themselves prefer a clear separate distinction?. So on dogzonline you would have labradors , then underneath field labradors . Because it's not just a physical difference but a temprement difference . My point with guide dogs was that it shows the massive spectrum in labador temperaments . What they originally were bred to do seem defunct now when you have such widely different dogs all called labradors . Surely field labrador breeders would like to 'own ' their type with a more descriptive name ? I know thar Rebbane but there are registered lab breeders on dogzonline who will not sell to pet homes due to them being unsuitable . Ideally a lab should be able 'all rounder ' which luckily my pup is his nz bred father comes from both a working and showing breeder . Yet some lab breeders are producing dogs that more further removed from the standard and have so much drive that they need to work to be happy . They would be totally unsuitable for a guide dog as an example . You have criticised a DOL breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 With Kelpies, there has been a slight name difference, with Working Kelpie being the working bred dogs and Australian Kelpie being the bench/show bred dogs. What is quite interesting is that the USA is starting up registration for Kelpies and the name listed is Working Kelpie, not Australian Kelpie (which is its designated name under ANKC) http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/working-kelpie/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) In what world is it criticism ? That's exactly what was said in puppy listing that they do not breed for the pet market . There are probably some show breeders producing lab puppies that would make poor gun dogs . Neither type would technically fit the original standard . YOUR the one interpreting that as criticism . As they say , if you seek out offense , you will find one . Edited December 20, 2015 by Dewclaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 The original purpose of the Lab as a working Gundog is far from defunct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Yes but the majority of labradors being bred will never ever see or retrieve a duck . The majority are being bred for pets . This of course could be said for many working types of different breeds . Maybe my thread tithe should of been 'should working lines of breeds be under different registries abd listed separately '. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Guide Dogs certainly do have their own program - a lot of the heads are very "un-Lab-like"!!!! Customs partly use American field bred Labs and also have their own program. Last I heard anyway. Field-bred or working lines works fine as a description. A lot of breeds have splits - it would start getting unmanageable as there would be splits within splits. It'd be pretty cool to see side by side comparisons of the differing body types (and drive/temperaments etc) from the differing criteria, and what might be the drive behind each of the changes. Since changing one thing can change others for good or worse? Curious because I was reading about the border force program and the PHD study behind it last night (https://minerva-access.unimelb.edu.au/handle/11343/39395?show=full). This topic is good timing to ask questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 GSD have distinct working and show lines, and there is no alternate registration for them as far as I am aware. Registration as others have pointed out is about being able to trace pedigrees. If it has a pedigree listing it is a certain breed with certain registration, it should be listed as such. People choose various aspects to breed for, if you look through DOL database there is a lot of variation in appearance in many breeds, even those without a show/working split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Yes but the majority of labradors being bred will never ever see or retrieve a duck . The majority are being bred for pets . This of course could be said for many working types of different breeds . Maybe my thread tithe should of been 'should working lines of breeds be under different registries abd listed separately '. I don't think numbers are sufficient to justify it. There are enough politics in the dog world already. The Vic Gundog Club runs both shows and working Gundog trials which appeal to different parts of the membership. So if your assertion that most Labs never retrieve a duck is right who should leave the ANKC and how would that benefit breeders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Here is a good article describing the different types . Personally I think the original labrador would have fallen some where beween the two types . http://www.labradortraininghq.com/labrador-breed-information/the-difference-between-american-and-english-labradors/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Going back to my original example collies vic both cover smooth and rough types but they are clearly differentiated on dogz online . Couldint dog clubs for labradors support both types IF they officially became separate breeds ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 I know thar Rebbane but there are registered lab breeders on dogzonline who will not sell to pet homes due to them being unsuitable . Ideally a lab should be able 'all rounder ' which luckily my pup is his nz bred father comes from both a working and showing breeder . Yet some lab breeders are producing dogs that more further removed from the standard and have so much drive that they need to work to be happy . They would be totally unsuitable for a guide dog as an example . But being guide dogs wasn't a labs original purpose. Retrieving game was. So they needed to be able to go all day. I'm not sure what you are after here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Oh yes the typical dogz online snarkiness coming in lol . I am not a newbie . Different profile due to old email a dress not being used anymore . so what was your previous DOL name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 The pictures on the bottom of this page clearly show the differences in structure between different types of German Shepherd, but they are all German Shepherds http://ottogsd.com/german-vs-american-german-shepherds.php There are some breeds which separated from other breeds such as American Cockers splitting from English Cockers, but I don't think there is a need in Labradors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewclaws Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 Rebenne read the link I think it explains the difference in types and why I think for people seeking a particular labrador separating the types would be easier for people after a lab.. Pretty much neither of the types are like the original labrador originally described in the standard or the purpose it was bred for . My original name was smithy the cairn , haven't been on here for years though . Still have my two gorgeous cairns smithy abd Ruffles . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Why not join a Lab club and see if you can make it happen? I don't see the need personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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