cowanbree Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I run quite a few dogs together and it takes careful management. Even then you do get grumbling, scuffles and sadly the odd I want to kill you fight. My entire boys grump at each other often but are only out together when I am there so any potential fights are quickly squashed, it is the girls that are the worst. I used to have a bitch line that was very dominant but after one very bad fight where they packed attacked a sleeping gentle soft wee bitch who never did anything wrong I desexed and rehomed them. Don’t regret it at all. They were lovely dogs but not suited to be part of a pack. Currently we are in the middle of a change in pack order after the loss of my old boy and my Aussie Shepherd has decided she is going to be boss. This is presenting an issue as she is quite dominant and 15kg bigger than her fellow housemates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I've been very careful about building my "pack" - entire male Dally plus 2 entire bitches, mother and daughter ESS, 5 years and 7 months, respectively. Springers tend to be soft but issues can still arise. Zig is unbelievably good with females and puppies - just an amazing temperament. He grumped at the pups when they hung off him and they have all grown up to be incredibly respectful of adult dogs without any fear. I've had a couple of pups here in training (not mine) - he tolerates the male pups but doesn't enjoy them as much. So I would never have another male. Em can get away with just about anything and he is extremely apologetic if she tells him off for getting too personal. Ginny treats her Mum like her own personal tug toy and is rather annoying. Consequently I don't leave them together too long under certain circumstances - around food bowls, when Em has had a long day out training/competing or when Em has first got up in the morning. I'll also be darn careful when they come into season - although Em was extremely good this last time I did exercise them separately as I can't keep an eye on both of them!!! Edited November 30, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 In over 30 years of keeping multiple dogs together,entire and neutered, 2 different breeds, I have not had a fight which required vet treatment. . I hope I don't jinx myself, but I think I have been very blessed with the temperament of my guys. Currently keeping 3 bitches together and couldn't ask for a group who got on better. Blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 No real fights here ever. We have had many dogs over the years (our own, fosters and just visiting) including Terriers, Herding breeds and mutts. The worst has been a bit of fur missing from a small scuffle but nothing requiring any more than a yell to cut it out. I don't put up with ANY crap, I am the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 If one dog is intent on doing harm to another, then the only course of action is to separate permanently. It can be done, but requires learning a new routine of management of the animals in your care. Once there is a routine, then it's pretty easy to manage. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I've written about mine a few times. It was 2 speyed bitches and it was very bad. A stern voice wouldn't do any good at all, they were oblivious to it. I have no doubt they would've killed each other if I hadn't managed to break them apart eventually. It took constant vigilance on my part and in a way I think it spoiled their lives to an extent, especially Kibah who couldn't be her true self and show exuberance or joy for fear of drawing attention from Penny. Here's a thread I wrote about their last one where I broke Pennys rib trying to break them up. And for anyone wanting to have a go at me about that please dont bother, I felt terrible at the time and Penny recovered completely from it and died of old age last year. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/196008-fight/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) where the fighting is about dogs trying to sort out the rank this is an interesting article...here a quote that sums it up in a nutshell: ..."Usually, the owner is the cause. It is over-simplistic to say this; but, the reality is that the average dog owner will often completely ignore his dogs social hierarchy and attempt to impose what he believes to be equitable. This leads to tension between the dogs, which then leads to aggression when the owner is present"... Edited November 30, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 where the fighting is about dogs trying to sort out the rank this is an interesting article...here a quote that sums it up in a nutshell: ..."Usually, the owner is the cause. It is over-simplistic to say this; but, the reality is that the average dog owner will often completely ignore his dogs’ social hierarchy and attempt to impose what he believes to be equitable. This leads to tension between the dogs, which then leads to aggression when the owner is present"... That's a really good article Willem. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 My Amstaff desexed girl Georgia hated any bitch on sight. Males, both entire and desexed, she would leave alone but should a female of any description cross her path - she was on for the kill. I was that owner who carried a break stick. She had numerous scuffles while I was trying to work on her behaviour and she was never fooling around. She wanted to kill, not just dominate. I'd never ever let her just 'sort it out', there'd be a dead dog at the end if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) where the fighting is about dogs trying to sort out the rank this is an interesting article...here a quote that sums it up in a nutshell: ..."Usually, the owner is the cause. It is over-simplistic to say this; but, the reality is that the average dog owner will often completely ignore his dogs social hierarchy and attempt to impose what he believes to be equitable. This leads to tension between the dogs, which then leads to aggression when the owner is present"... Over simplistic is right. Most of the more knowledgeable dog owner I know who've had scuffles in their home know what their pack order is. It's when that pack order is CHANGING that you can have issues. Dogs mature, dogs age.. it's a dynamic thing. Anyone with an ounce of dog knowledge knows dogs don't do democracy. But the alph Can we restrict this topic to fights WITHIN packs please? We've had plenty of dog to dog aggression between unknown dogs. SSM is right, there is a stigma that goes with this issue. Some think they are the better dog owners because they've never had issues. Breed, age, sex, sexual entirity all add to the mix. The trick is not to confuse good luck with good management. Crates, for me, are an inevitable part of that management when you get above three or so dogs. So is not confusing what might be normal pack squabbles with serious intent to take another pack member out. Edited November 30, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 where the fighting is about dogs trying to sort out the rank this is an interesting article...here a quote that sums it up in a nutshell: ..."Usually, the owner is the cause. It is over-simplistic to say this; but, the reality is that the average dog owner will often completely ignore his dogs’ social hierarchy and attempt to impose what he believes to be equitable. This leads to tension between the dogs, which then leads to aggression when the owner is present"... Over simplistic is right. Most of the more knowledgeable dog owner I know who've had scuffles in their home know what their pack order is. It's when that pack order is CHANGING that you can have issues. Dogs mature, dogs age.. it's a dynamic thing. Anyone with an ounce of dog knowledge knows dogs don't do democracy. I agree with the 'changes of the pack order'....but wrt 'don't do democracy' I believe you are tooooooooo optimistic :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 where the fighting is about dogs trying to sort out the rank this is an interesting article...here a quote that sums it up in a nutshell: ..."Usually, the owner is the cause. It is over-simplistic to say this; but, the reality is that the average dog owner will often completely ignore his dogs’ social hierarchy and attempt to impose what he believes to be equitable. This leads to tension between the dogs, which then leads to aggression when the owner is present"... Over simplistic is right. Most of the more knowledgeable dog owner I know who've had scuffles in their home know what their pack order is. It's when that pack order is CHANGING that you can have issues. Dogs mature, dogs age.. it's a dynamic thing. Anyone with an ounce of dog knowledge knows dogs don't do democracy. Little off topic but how would you deal with a 1 year old bullying a blind 8 year old in terms of hierarchy, both males? I'm lucky we didn't end up looking after the 1 year old but the initial plan was for him to spend 4 weeks with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 ...might not be popular, but: If I would have more than 1 dog, and one of them would be heavily handicapped by loss of sight, loss of limps or other diseases that would negatively impact his 'normal' dog life while with other dogs I would consider to put the handicapped dog to sleep if he would be bullied by the other ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 ...might not be popular, but: If I would have more than 1 dog, and one of them would be heavily handicapped by loss of sight, loss of limps or other diseases that would negatively impact his 'normal' dog life while with other dogs I would consider to put the handicapped dog to sleep if he would be bullied by the other ones. Not only unpopular, unnecessary. The oldest dog in my pack is a not far off 18 year old bitch. She has vision issues. Do does the 12 year old mini poodle. The Whippet boys are very tolerant of them. I have heard of cases where the pack turned on a frail dog but touch wood, I can't see it happening in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Little off topic but how would you deal with a 1 year old bullying a blind 8 year old in terms of hierarchy, both males?I'm lucky we didn't end up looking after the 1 year old but the initial plan was for him to spend 4 weeks with us Well, its pretty obvious from a pack dynamic who would win any dust up. Supervision, correction and separation when I wasn't there. Visitors can be challenging to pack dynamics and at about the three week stage, they're going to figure that they're staying. Much would also depend on the attitude of the older dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 ...might not be popular, but: If I would have more than 1 dog, and one of them would be heavily handicapped by loss of sight, loss of limps or other diseases that would negatively impact his 'normal' dog life while with other dogs I would consider to put the handicapped dog to sleep if he would be bullied by the other ones. I did mention the situation would have been temporary didn't I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I've got a situation where my oldest dog is also second from the bottom in the pecking order. His main danger is from number 4 (the bottom bitch). They get along fine now, but I'm prepared, when it becomes necessary, to separate the pack out into two groups when I'm not around with Benny and number 1 in one area of the house, and the two girls in the other if necessary. Otherwise, problems we've had have been with over-arousal or our bottom girl feeling bullied and standing up for herself. Generally things work well, but it's a case of on-going management and adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 ...might not be popular, but: If I would have more than 1 dog, and one of them would be heavily handicapped by loss of sight, loss of limps or other diseases that would negatively impact his 'normal' dog life while with other dogs I would consider to put the handicapped dog to sleep if he would be bullied by the other ones. I did mention the situation would have been temporary didn't I yes, I recognized this...if it is only temporary IMO it doesn't make much sense to let the dogs establish their ranking - no matter whether one of them is handicapped or not - as it would change anyway again; hence in this case (temporary) I guess the best approach is to keep them separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 ...might not be popular, but: If I would have more than 1 dog, and one of them would be heavily handicapped by loss of sight, loss of limps or other diseases that would negatively impact his 'normal' dog life while with other dogs I would consider to put the handicapped dog to sleep if he would be bullied by the other ones. Not only unpopular, unnecessary. The oldest dog in my pack is a not far off 18 year old bitch. She has vision issues. Do does the 12 year old mini poodle. The Whippet boys are very tolerant of them. I have heard of cases where the pack turned on a frail dog but touch wood, I can't see it happening in mine. Our blind dog simply would not cope as an only dog, he has our poodle x as a constant companion and playmate. It was actually recommended by the specialist when he was diagnosed with PRA that we get another dog to act as a bit of an aid for him, although they did stress to make sure it was a dog that would not attempt to dominate him once he lost his sight Little off topic but how would you deal with a 1 year old bullying a blind 8 year old in terms of hierarchy, both males?I'm lucky we didn't end up looking after the 1 year old but the initial plan was for him to spend 4 weeks with us Well, its pretty obvious from a pack dynamic who would win any dust up. Supervision, correction and separation when I wasn't there. Visitors can be challenging to pack dynamics and at about the three week stage, they're going to figure that they're staying. Much would also depend on the attitude of the older dog. Good thing we managed to get out of it then because there is no way my OH would put the 1 year old over and above his beloved collie, even if it was for everyone's benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 My cousin's mini schnauzer was about 13 years old when they got a standard schnauzer puppy. They got along beautifully and it brought him back to life. In the end, he was blind and lost his marbles a bit, but she was always tolerant of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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