Let's Talk About Dog Fights

[Salukifan]

Was reading a few posts on the Canberra dog attack thread and the subject turned to fights between dogs in a household.

It has certainly happened to me, most notably when my old boy Teddy (undisputed pack leader) passed away and two of the other males decided to debate who was the new boss. A couple of incidents in the following weeks saw Darcy the Mini Poodle pinned on his back by Dodger the Whippet and, not being entirely stupid, he ceded the leadership.

There have been a couple of scraps over resources but I control most of the desireables so that rarely happens. My dogs are fed in individual crates and treats are always supervised. When it has happened, a roar from me has broken it up. It is usually just sound and fury with no contact.

We've had a couple of vet visits for punctures and scrapes but *touch wood* two or three such incidents over the space of two decades. I don't consider this unusual. Most of my multi-dog owning friends experience similar but most of my friends have entire dogs.

What are other pack (more than two dogs) household's experiences?

Edited November 29, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[BlaznHotAussies]

A dog that I was fostering actually came to me as she'd taken to picking on one of the younger dogs at a breeders' place (unprovoked), and a couple of the other bitches jumped in - luckily it was easy to stop & they're not inherently aggressive dogs. It's an interesting phenomenon, when an outside dog picks a fight with one of the 'pack' the rest of them go in to tell the outside dog off

[JulesP]

No fights here. The closest one was when a bitch grabbed a dog's ear whilst playing and he had an ear infection and got upset. No wounds occurred. This is over a 20 year span. The most I've had at one time is 4 dogs. Haven't had 2 entire adult dogs at the one time.

[BarbedWire]

As I said in the other thread I have had at least two dogs for more than 20 years and I have never had a fight although all of my own have been desexed. I am careful to respect the pack leader and to make sure that the others do too. I feed them separately but while they all line up and wait I put the pack leader's bowl down first. I don't feed bones other than chicken wings because I don't want bones buried in my backyard. ATM I have two, a younger pup who is cheeky and who constantly wants the older dog to play chasey. When the older dog's not happy she will lift her lip or growl and I tell the pup to leave her alone. She is quite entitled to say that she doesn't want to play and the pup needs to learn to respect other dogs.

[Rebanne]

Only issue I ever had was with one dog who I got when she was about 4. After the 3rd trip to the vet with one of my other girls the newest one was returned. The returned dog went on the have a great life as an only dog. Otherwise only minor scuffles and an Oi! stops them in their tracks

[Podengo]

My current two are good together and neither resource guard anything. Ping is very submissive to Elsie, and the worst telling off he has had was when she growled at him when he tried to hump her.

In the past my family had two Doberman bitches, one we acquired as an adult, and they had some really bad fights with torn ears and some pretty bad bites. At the same time we had a ridgeback mix bitch that both Dobes were fine with.

I know of quite a few people who have had issues with same-sex aggression between house mates in Dobes and other similar breeds.

[Leah82]

Nothing that resembles a fight here, couple of growls from Sarah if Collie tries to take something off her or if he's getting over excited.

He's mostly learnt his lesson though so if Sarah is chewing on a ball that he wants he'll just sit next to her staring at the ball until she gets bored and wanders off :p

[*kirty*]

I have had dozens of dogs over 15+ years and never had an issue - until my Great Dane decided she wanted to kill my Greyhound. My dogs eat next to each other, share toys, beds and even bones. The issue between the Dane and the Grey was over nothing - it was like a switch went off in her head and it was war from then on. We had to separate them the whole time. The Dane had other issues so when she accidentally got to our Grey for the second time, we had her PTS. We have never had another issue since and we have had males, females, desexed and entire. As I said, sometimes you never have a problem until you do.

[YippeeGirl]

Our two bitches fight if they are together. Originally, they got along very well. Our 'middle' bitch Nike, is not quite right in the head. She's reactive with other dogs and seems to have a lot of difficulty in reading other dogs' body language. Eos meanwhile, has quite a dominant, almost bullying personality.

I think Nike was a little over a year when the two of them had their first fight. They went back to being friends after that for a while, and then they had several more fights. The fights while fairly terrifying to watch and listen to, really didn't cause all that much damage (Nike had a small nick in her ear and a shallow gash over her eye that needed stitching) to either dog. They never really lost themselves completely that they were actively trying to kill each other, or would redirect on one of us when we came in to separate them.

Obviously, there is some tension that exists between them because of this. However, it's not anywhere near a level where I would say one dog needs to be re-homed. It has made life slightly more difficult, because we have to crate and rotate, and have to be more vigilant about leaving doors/gates/crates unlocked.

This is the first time we've ever had issues with our dogs fighting. Although same-sex aggression does seem more prevalent among German Shepherds as I know other people that can't run bitches together because they will try and kill each other.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Most in home dog fights I have witnessed were few and what I now consider a "scuffle" - loud but with minimal touching and injuries, quickly broken up with a yell or clap or water. Usually a younger teen pushing boundaries with older established dogs and not taking the hints.

The one in April between my new dogs had no obvious trigger, went from usual friendly sniffing to "scuffle" to serious holding on and injury in a blink of an eye. It was very violent and stunning in its viciousness, went through a window and kept holding on. Thistle stood no chance. They were fed separately, best of friends etc etc but sometimes shit happens

I surrendered the aggressor and 3 weeks later after failing all behavioural tests she was PTS. I'm still very sad about it but there is no way I could handle her and I need to focus on rebuilding thistles confidence around dogs.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[Kavik]

I've had the odd scuffle - normally when the dogs get overexcited, or over a resource. They have been almost all noise - no injuries that needed vet attention, at most a small tooth mark on the nose from being told off. Even when I had Zoe who was dog aggressive and also a resource guarder there were no serious incidents.

[ish]

Although same-sex aggression does seem more prevalent among German Shepherds as I know other people that can't run bitches together because they will try and kill each other.

Yes I would agree with this. I've had a few instances of fights amongst my GSD girls. They generally get along well until maturity at about 18 months/2 years and usually it involves hormones either due to seasons or being in whelp. Worst fight caused a broken leg to one bitch and puncture wounds for the other bitch and myself - these are not the kind of fights where a hose or loud noises will break them up, physical separation and waiting for them to let go is the only option. Once they've fought, they're enemies for life and require careful management.

[raineth]

I have been fortunate enough to have no fights. But apart from a few fosters, most of which were puppies, I have really only had the same two dogs together. I think they never even so much as lifted a lip at each other!

They were both very respectful of each other when it came to resources, and we tried never to put them in a position where they felt the need to compete for a resource. However, I'd put 90% of it down to their temperaments, and only 10% of it down to the way we did things with them. so yes, I have been very lucky.

Edited November 30, 2015 by raineth

[Lugeanjaam]

This thread is very timely.

I have 3 dogs, Suki Maltese x who is 11, Joey Silky x who is 6 and Flynn Belgian Shepherd coming on 3. They have all got along beautifully with the only issue being that Flynn doesn't like the other dogs near his food but it's a problem that has been easily dealt with by feeding them seperately, bones in crates only etc. In the last couple of weeks Flynn has displayed intolerance towards the smaller 2 which was nothing serious, mostly noise. This morning he attacked Joey leaving him with a nasty wound on his ear that required stitching. He has also been quite dominant with Suki but a growl from me and he backs off. The only change I can think of is that Suki has been losing her sight over the last 6 months, with a rapid decline in the last couple of weeks. Even though she weighs 5 Kgs sopping wet she ruled the roost with the boys happily submitting to her. Could this be a reason for Flynn's sudden change in behaviour? He is a very social and has never met a human, dog or cat that he doesn't like so this is out of left field. I know that I need to play musical dogs until this is sorted out and I have emailed a behaviourist this morning. We are going away over xmas for a month with family staying here to care for the menagerie but it's a heavy burden to put on them and certainly not what they signed up for. I may need to board Flynn while we are away but it's going to be tricky getting in somewhere at this late notice and Flynn is going to hate it. Sigh, awful timing boy ????

[SkySoaringMagpie]

We run a mixed pack of sighthounds . There is very definitely a difference between a scuffle fight and a someone is going to die fight and we have experienced both. But there are also fights between those two extremes that mean you have some work you need to do.

I think this depends a great deal on breed. From my perspective sighthounds should get on with each other, including entire members of the same sex. All of ours are entire. Because temperament is important to me, and I breed, it's important for me to run the pack together and observe the dogs. How a dog behaves, particularly a male towards bitches, does influence my decisions about breeding.

We don't do everything together, they are all fed separately for example. But excepting bitches in season they are expected to behave around each other. When bitches are in season I'm conservative and separate dogs whose brains are in their balls - as well as the girls.

Our job as the humans in charge is to watch what is going on. Who is reaching maturity (for us about the 3 year mark)? Who is getting frail? Where in the bitches' cycles are we? Is something developing that I could use an expert opinion on? We recently went to K9Pro about something that perhaps most people wouldn't bother over but I knew it had the potential to affect the whole structure of the male side of the pack and wanted some expert advice about how to manage it.

I think if you run a multi-dog household for a number of years it would be miraculous if you didn't one day end up with a fight that meant you had to rethink and rearrange. So we need to take the stigma away - a fight in some ways isn't the problem. The problem occurs when we don't respond with appropriate intervention.

Edited November 30, 2015 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Airedaler]

Fortunate here to have never had a fight in 42 years with multiple dogs - terriers bar one - and most entire.

Closest we came to it was when one bitch had been raising a litter of pups and so out of the year for a couple of weeks and another thought she might take over but it did not escalate into a fight.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Airedaler

[huski]

Fighting will occur when dogs want the same thing, which is why I manage my two entire bitches very carefully, they both have high value for the same resources. It's also why I can easily have my Beagle run with either of my Mals (they don't want the same things). I haven't had any problems with my three but I also have very clear rules and my dogs don't free run together 24/7, so they aren't in situations where they can learn to compete and fight over resources.

[Maddy]

Same as SSM, all sighthounds here and experienced both types of fights, although mostly just between foster dogs or foster dogs and my own dogs- my own have never had actual fights amongst themselves, fortunately.

Of our current dogs, Shitty Whippet and Idiot Dog have never even gotten close (he tends to back off first, despite being three times her size) and Jelly Bean and Spotty have had a few noisy spats, all over food, never any injuries and all started by Jelly. In the past, Jelly has fought with other foster dogs and she can be short-tempered and prone to over-reacting, one of the reasons she stayed with us rather than being rehomed. She's generally all noise and bluster but with another female, I have no doubt it could escalate to something much more serious so she does not share space with the Shitty Whippet. In addition to that, Idiot Dog does not cope well with big dogs (even though he is one) so he and Shitty Whippet have one space, Jelly and Spotty have the other- everyone is safe and both pairs are happy.

I do miss being able to have all four in together (as we did when Kiff and Sally were still alive) but with everyone's various quirks, I can't see it ever working or being safe. I've seen as many fights as I need to see to understand that sometimes "ideal" isn't realistic.

[Ruffles]

I've lived in a 'multiple amstaff household' for over 10 years - fights happen.

Some of them really bad, some of them just scuffles that can be stopped with a yell. We all have scars! :laugh:

I just keep everyone separate now. I'm too small, and dont have tolerance for that kind of crap, so all dogs live in different runs, and sleep in different crates. Safest option.

[megan_]

My two never fought. There was once a little rumble about 18 months after Lucy joined the family. Fergus was being a pain in the butt, so air snapped and threw him against the wall. He squealed like a baby. I yelled, it stopped and they were both fine - not a scratch.

I believe the "no fighting" came from:

* A bit of management (never fed together, although this changed near the end and they were fine)

* Good luck

* Their temperaments (the biggest factor by a mile). Fergs was always submissive to Lucy and was easy going. Lucy was very slow to anger and, if Fergs pissed her off after their little tiff, she would give him "the look" and he would comply. She let him steal toys from her (he always wanted to have what she was having, and she was happy to comply too). If a highly valued resource fell to the floor and they were both there, they had a "first come first served" policy - never any fights, even if I accidentally dropped some meat on the floor.

I don't think "not tolerating fighting" has any bearing on whether dogs fight or not.

ETA: For me, living in a small house and working long hours, having dogs that get along and can be together without a scrap is very important. I was very lucky with my two.

Edited November 30, 2015 by megan_