Not Something Often Seen

[Maddy]

So to me the dog in Rebanne's picture is the same colour as the one in the Kirislin's first post - I'd call that a very pretty red or chestnut.

I think Rebanne is saying its red?

The one in kdf's pic - I'd call that dun - except it does has white points as well as dark points which is unusual (in most other critters).

not that it matters what you name the colour - it is very pretty.

So what colour are Irish Setters? Cos that looks like the same red to me. Or do greyhounds have a unique colour naming system?

No more unique than other breeds.

Merle dachshunds are called dapples even though it's merle, liver labs are called chocolate, even though it's just liver, red ticked English setters are "orange belton", sable GSDs are "black and gold" or "black and mahogany", blue can be called blue or grey or silver (depending on the breed) and so on and so forth. Greyhounds actually have a fairly simple system- black, blue, dun, red/fawn/fallow (all sable, one with a modifier), brindle or any of those colours with white.

I can't understand why anyone would feel the need to quibble over a colour name when most breed types will have their own colour name system and some of those names are not good descriptors of the actual colours.

[denali]

So to me the dog in Rebanne's picture is the same colour as the one in the Kirislin's first post - I'd call that a very pretty red or chestnut.

I think Rebanne is saying its red?

The one in kdf's pic - I'd call that dun - except it does has white points as well as dark points which is unusual (in most other critters).

not that it matters what you name the colour - it is very pretty.

So what colour are Irish Setters? Cos that looks like the same red to me. Or do greyhounds have a unique colour naming system?

No more unique than other breeds.

Merle dachshunds are called dapples even though it's merle, liver labs are called chocolate, even though it's just liver, red ticked English setters are "orange belton", sable GSDs are "black and gold" or "black and mahogany", blue can be called blue or grey or silver (depending on the breed) and so on and so forth. Greyhounds actually have a fairly simple system- black, blue, dun, red/fawn/fallow (all sable, one with a modifier), brindle or any of those colours with white.

I can't understand why anyone would feel the need to quibble over a colour name when most breed types will have their own colour name system and some of those names are not good descriptors of the actual colours.

Or cavaliers- Ruby, blenheim (just red and white in setters! )

[bianca.a]

What a stunner!

[Rebanne]

So to me the dog in Rebanne's picture is the same colour as the one in the Kirislin's first post - I'd call that a very pretty red or chestnut.

I think Rebanne is saying its red?

The one in kdf's pic - I'd call that dun - except it does has white points as well as dark points which is unusual (in most other critters).

not that it matters what you name the colour - it is very pretty.

So what colour are Irish Setters? Cos that looks like the same red to me. Or do greyhounds have a unique colour naming system?

Fern is a red, same red as an Irish Setter. Kdf's dog I would have registered as a fawn which can also be called red. There are several different descriptions for fawn/red that are allowable, including a blue fawn.

There are fawns, red fawns, reds, blue fawns, fallow ( I have never seen one registered as fallow ). Offically within the ANKC greyhounds colours are COLOUR - Black, white, red, blue, fawn, fallow, brindle or any of these colours broken with white.

Lots of breeds call the same colour a different name.

[Pjrt]

The nuances of dog coat colour names is fascinating.

Another example would be the Rhodesian Ridgeback which is only ever wheaten, just light to red wheaten.

[denali]

The nuances of dog coat colour names is fascinating.

Another example would be the Rhodesian Ridgeback which is only ever wheaten, just light to red wheaten.

It is!

Or the vizslas russet gold to dark sandy gold.

Pretty much the same colours as Ridgebacks!

[JulesP]

I think I'd call that colour - chestnut (red)

Dun - in horses anyway is sort of an ice coffee colour with dark points

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dun_gene

I took her in the shade and sunlight in the hope of showing the colour as accurately as I could. I know Dun in horses is quite different, but Rebanne's right, they call this dun in greyhounds. It's pretty isn't it. Apparently the only colour a Dun bitch will throw is black! I'm assuming though that the Dun gene carries on, hidden until it pops up every now and then. This girls parents were black and fawn, though I dont know which was which. She might be the sister of Dun and Dunner.

i checked this as this would not be the case in border collies. And it is the same with Dun. Dun x Dun will give you only Dun. Dun x other colours will give you a variety of colours depending on the other genes. So they don't just have black puppies.

[Rebanne]

Just for interests sake I looked in the greyhound data base which has 2,088,136 greyhound pedigrees from all over the world, both race and show bred, and the colour fallow is not one of 60 colour combinations they have to choose from. Several types of dun as in dun, white and dun, etc.

Then using sarsparilla's colour page found fallow, which actually looks quite like dun to me.

http://colornames.facts.co/fallowcolorcode/fallowcolor.php

[Little Gifts]

Why is it such a rare colour in this particular breed?

[Maddy]

Just for interests sake I looked in the greyhound data base which has 2,088,136 greyhound pedigrees from all over the world, both race and show bred, and the colour fallow is not one of 60 colour combinations they have to choose from. Several types of dun as in dun, white and dun, etc.

Then using sarsparilla's colour page found fallow, which actually looks quite like dun to me.

http://colornames.facts.co/fallowcolorcode/fallowcolor.php

I'd guess most fallows are recorded as fawns because genetically speaking, they are sables (as are reds), the only difference is the urajiro modifying the appearance slightly. On the other hand, masking is not affected by urajiro so a dog genotypically urajiro that is also genotypically heavily tipped sable may be phenotypically just the tipped sable, if it covers up the urajiro. Such a dog may be recorded as a fawn because that's what we see and given it's much of a muchness with sable anyway, I don't suppose it really matters, even if it isn't entirely correct. Having said that (of course :p ) I guess it also depends on where you draw the line so far as relatively minor modifiers go. We have a colour name for a modifier that isn't terribly common (fallow) but on the other hand, masking is also a modifier and in all the sable dogs I've had, incredibly common. But for whatever reason, we don't draw distinctions between masked or not, even though they are also genetically different. To further complicate things, we have red and fawn, even though the only practical difference is pigment intensity, which seems to be a lot like the rufus modifier in rabbits in that it appears to be somewhat random.

I think the trouble with a lot of breed colour names is that they were devised before we really understood what was what. If we removed minor modifiers in greyhounds and named according to genotypic colour, we have black, blue, dun, sable, brindle and white. Although for the purpose of correct recording of colour, I suppose you'd also have to include all potential variations of those colours, such as blue sable or dun brindle. Although at least if things were named by genetic colour, it'd make the whole colour system pretty uniform between breeds and much less confusing.

[cannibalgoldfish]

Wait..Greyhounds have urajiro? I thought that was a Shiba term/thing?

[Maddy]

Wait..Greyhounds have urajiro? I thought that was a Shiba term/thing?

Yep, it occurs in other breeds, too. In greyhounds, it's often hard to spot because of things like masking or particolour. And colour recording is done by phenotypical colour, with a lot of it being subjective, so far as red, red fawn and fawn goes, making it impossible to say just how common it actually is.

[BarbedWire]

I was wondering if this colour has been labelled 'dun' by someone who is colour blind. My understanding is that there are a lot of men in the greyhound industry and 10% (?) of males are colour blind and it's usually a red/green issue. Just wondering if a red blind person initially labelled this colour dun.

It's a beautiful colour and a beautiful dog BTW.

[Leah82]

Why is it such a rare colour in this particular breed?

From what I've seen and read Dun appears to be the name given to the solid liver gene in greys which is rare in a lot of breeds and rarer still when there is such a wide variety of accepted colours in the breed

Simple case of it being a recessive gene

[griff]

Different yes I like different :)

[ish]

sable GSDs are "black and gold" or "black and mahogany"

Black and gold GSDs are black and gold or black and tan. Sable GSDs are sable or grey. Sables are not called black and gold.

Mahogany - there's no such colour in GSDs although some breeders, particularly overseas, do use it to describe rich red gold colour.

[Flashsmum]

Regardless of what the colour is called :love:

[Maddy]

sable GSDs are "black and gold" or "black and mahogany"

Black and gold GSDs are black and gold or black and tan. Sable GSDs are sable or grey. Sables are not called black and gold.

Mahogany - there's no such colour in GSDs although some breeders, particularly overseas, do use it to describe rich red gold colour.

Black and gold is either sable or B&T genetically though (heavy masking or the subjective nature of determining colour based on phenotype alone could make it one or the other). What GSD people call "sable" is actually agouti. It's another case of colours being named one thing while they're genetically something else entirely.

The point I was trying to make is that we apply different colour names to things that are genetically the same, we apply incorrect names all over the place and we names things after colours they don't really even resemble. And given a move to a genotype-based and universal system of colour naming doesn't seem likely any time in the near or distant future.. might as well get used to it.

[anniek]

This is a dun greyhound. I've seen at least one once before but not up close. This one's a rescue belonging to some friends. Thought it might be of some interest to dog lovers. It's a pretty rare colour.

Is that Stella & Ian's girl?

[Kirislin]

This is a dun greyhound. I've seen at least one once before but not up close. This one's a rescue belonging to some friends. Thought it might be of some interest to dog lovers. It's a pretty rare colour.

Is that Stella & Ian's girl?

Yep :D

Edited November 30, 2015 by Kirislin