Barking/jumping Up/nipping During Agility Runs

[Willem]

If the dog is getting aggravated when you pass in front, the knee jerk ethologist's question is are you introducing visual stimuli that are highly relevant to him, yet he can't figure out what they mean? From a purely behavioural perspective, just break it down. Form a hypothesis and test it. Isolate the possibilities and test if they provoke biting one at a time. If it's predictable, then you can form a plan of attack that directly addresses the triggers. Of course, it could be your entire handling system, and going through the process of fixing this problem will just result in it manifesting in another way, but it might be simpler than that, too.

Incidentally, I have been observing working dogs on sheep all year for work, and I am becoming increasingly disbelieving of this assertion I hear all the time that good dogs won't bite sheep. Hmmm. But any that are working off the farm will be muzzled, and having seen what they do when they get excited, that seems warranted to me. Some are good at generating excitement when no one is looking. Cheeky beggars!

hear, hear... but is it 'real biting' or 'nipping / nibbling'?...our dog - and I thought this is linked to the breed - liked to nip / nibble, it's more an 'attempted bite', definitely not meant to hurt or aggressive (still, you feel it :D and with no fur it also hurt kids hands)

When she plays with her flower pot or with a ball, or when we play with the flirt pole tugging she uses a total different bite...this bite would definitely do a lot of damage if applied to a human limb.

[corvus]

hear, hear... but is it 'real biting' or 'nipping / nibbling'?...our dog - and I thought this is linked to the breed - liked to nip / nibble, it's more an 'attempted bite', definitely not meant to hurt or aggressive (still, you feel it :D and with no fur it also hurt kids hands)

Depends on the dog. :) The muzzle rule is there primarily to protect carcasses from bruising. Not all dogs will bite, but there are some that will and will bite hard enough to bruise. The environment is challenging from a training perspective. I feel for the handlers, who basically have to train dogs when they have their own work responsibilities as well.

[The Spotted Devil]

I reckon that Gundogs tend to bite game a) when genetics aren't in their favour, and b) when they are put under too much pressure. Generally confusion or frustration as a consequence of lumping behaviours and/or use of aversives.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

it's more an 'attempted bite', definitely not meant to hurt or aggressive

Dog is not supposed to come away from a shaggy sheep with a mouth full of wool... which is why we used shaggy sheep for training - ie much less likely to connect with the actual fleshy bits.

Tho there are other ways to break a sheep - like running them into a concrete trough. (not my team luckily but could happen to anyone if their dog doesn't stop when asked).

My dog - when she's a bit excited or it's getting dusk - will frequently miss the target (tug toy or whatever) and get me instead. Derrett said - you're not doing it right if you're not bleeding but I don't like that method. Too much punishment for handler.

[Kavik]

on cues:

Some of our confusion and barking is surrounding our PNU/traffic cone tight turns (and when I try them on jumps, so I am now going back to traffic cones til I fix it). Currently using both check check check and nanana nanana nanana on traffic cones. I am thinking of maybe dropping the backside wrap cue and only have one general backside of jump cue, and keep check check check for traffic cones/front side wraps. I want to make things very clear for Nitro and I am wondering if having 2 cues for the same behaviour which then become cues for different behaviours on jumps may be confusing him.

[The Spotted Devil]

Definitely persist with a la la, na na and the check check. Mine took longer to get the na na and I've just gone back and retrained it with Em - fixed if in a week. When using the cone, SG uses check check for single wraps and na na for multiples.

Edited November 27, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[Kavik]

Definitely persist with a la la, na na and the check check. Mine took longer to get the na na and I've just gone back and retrained it with Em - fixed if in a week. When using the cone, SG uses check check for single wraps and na na for multiples.

I thought check check was front side wraps and nanana was for backside wraps?

[The Spotted Devil]

Definitely persist with a la la, na na and the check check. Mine took longer to get the na na and I've just gone back and retrained it with Em - fixed if in a week. When using the cone, SG uses check check for single wraps and na na for multiples.

I thought check check was front side wraps and nanana was for backside wraps?

Yes you are right but that's just how SG deals with the PNU work.

[sheena]

Ok guys...can someone explain to me the benefits of using these multiple words when cuing a turn?? Why is that beneficial over just having a single word to cue a turn...eg. I just use "push" if it is a backside & a "go round" if it is a turn from the front combined with my body cues. All this la la la & check check check etc....is driving me crazy when walking a course & a third of the group are talking in this foreign language :laugh: it's almost like they are from another planet.

[The Spotted Devil]

Ok guys...can someone explain to me the benefits of using these multiple words when cuing a turn?? Why is that beneficial over just having a single word to cue a turn...eg. I just use "push" if it is a backside & a "go round" if it is a turn from the front combined with my body cues. All this la la la & check check check etc....is driving me crazy when walking a course & a third of the group are talking in this foreign language :laugh: it's almost like they are from another planet.

The best thing is that you can cue early and get out of there into position - saves running if you are not as fast as your dog. So as soon as my dog has committed to one jump I will tell them check check with my voice, work them with my shoulders and it gives them the confidence to commit to the next obstacle without asking questions. Unless I make a mistake I never have to call my dogs off obstacles - so I stay calm and my dogs have more fun. Also, understanding the turns has stopped my dogs falling on their shoulder and therefore prevents injuries. For example if I want my dog to take a back of jump tight turn I call a na na. When my dogs didn't understand this cue they would take the back of jump but then have to adjust mid air to chase me and consequently land awkwardly. Saves lots of precious seconds on course too. Mine also know a general turn cue (sprinkler or tis tis) AND a 180 cue (digga digga) AND a tight 360 turn cue (check check). They absolutely learn the difference and respond appropriately. Em stopped knocking bars and Zig took 10 seconds off his JDM times and gained his Ag Ch.

Basically we are cueing full extension or various degrees of collection.

Edited November 28, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[Willem]

holy moly ...how many commands of this talking codes exist?...it might be easier just to teach the dog how to read the numbers assigned to the obstacles and let her find her own way :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

H360 at it's best - clear commands and fast dogs that know exactly where they're going.

[The Spotted Devil]

holy moly ...how many commands of this talking codes exist?...it might be easier just to teach the dog how to read the numbers assigned to the obstacles and let her find her own way :laugh:

Nothing worth having is easy :D

I was on the verge of giving up on agility when I discovered H360. My Dalmatian struggled to make time and my Springer was crashing through jumps. Very much enjoying starting my pup from scratch!

[Willem]

H360 at it's best - clear commands and fast dogs that know exactly where they're going.

holy cow...how do you get the dog at e.g. 0:53 to ignore the first tunnel and take the other one?

[The Spotted Devil]

H360 at it's best - clear commands and fast dogs that know exactly where they're going.

holy cow...how do you get the dog at e.g. 0:53 to ignore the first tunnel and take the other one?

Do you mean Kris with Jive? That's an easy one :laugh: Just lots of driving forward and handler motion.

Check this one out of Katie with Nakita - taking the least obvious end of the tunnel at 0:15. We give a turn cue for the previous jump (tis tis - so the dog knows to collect their stride towards us) followed by a threadle arm (verbal is a drawn out "come") which means take the opposite side of the obstacle that you're approaching. If she had said "jump" the dog would have taken the jump in full extension and been in the wrong end of the tunnel before she could say anything.

Edited November 28, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[Willem]

wow!!!...that's fantastic teamwork....how many years of training (approx.) has this dog?...

[Agility Dogs]

If the dogs are trained in the foundations from day dog it's not that hard. This is my boy at 13 months - he had never seen more than 5 obstacles in sequence before this seminar.

Not nearly where the dogs in the other video are, but it shows what you can get pretty quickly. The dogs LOVE the verbals and pick them up really quickly - even the cross over dogs.

[Kavik]

Ok guys...can someone explain to me the benefits of using these multiple words when cuing a turn?? Why is that beneficial over just having a single word to cue a turn...eg. I just use "push" if it is a backside & a "go round" if it is a turn from the front combined with my body cues. All this la la la & check check check etc....is driving me crazy when walking a course & a third of the group are talking in this foreign language :laugh: it's almost like they are from another planet.

Dogs like the repeated sounds :)

I don't have as many as TSD:

check check check - wrap jump

nanana nanana - wrap backside of jump

lala lala lala - backside of jump

digadiga - sprinkler/general turn

[Kavik]

H360 at it's best - clear commands and fast dogs that know exactly where they're going.

holy cow...how do you get the dog at e.g. 0:53 to ignore the first tunnel and take the other one?

Do you mean Kris with Jive? That's an easy one :laugh: Just lots of driving forward and handler motion.

Check this one out of Katie with Nakita - taking the least obvious end of the tunnel at 0:15. We give a turn cue for the previous jump (tis tis - so the dog knows to collect their stride towards us) followed by a threadle arm (verbal is a drawn out "come") which means take the opposite side of the obstacle that you're approaching. If she had said "jump" the dog would have taken the jump in full extension and been in the wrong end of the tunnel before she could say anything.

What a great video - they are an awesome team! How many threadles did she do? :laugh:

[Tassie]

Ok guys...can someone explain to me the benefits of using these multiple words when cuing a turn?? Why is that beneficial over just having a single word to cue a turn...eg. I just use "push" if it is a backside & a "go round" if it is a turn from the front combined with my body cues. All this la la la & check check check etc....is driving me crazy when walking a course & a third of the group are talking in this foreign language :laugh: it's almost like they are from another planet.

The best thing is that you can cue early and get out of there into position - saves running if you are not as fast as your dog. So as soon as my dog has committed to one jump I will tell them check check with my voice, work them with my shoulders and it gives them the confidence to commit to the next obstacle without asking questions. Unless I make a mistake I never have to call my dogs off obstacles - so I stay calm and my dogs have more fun. Also, understanding the turns has stopped my dogs falling on their shoulder and therefore prevents injuries. For example if I want my dog to take a back of jump tight turn I call a na na. When my dogs didn't understand this cue they would take the back of jump but then have to adjust mid air to chase me and consequently land awkwardly. Saves lots of precious seconds on course too. Mine also know a general turn cue (sprinkler or tis tis) AND a 180 cue (digga digga) AND a tight 360 turn cue (check check). They absolutely learn the difference and respond appropriately. Em stopped knocking bars and Zig took 10 seconds off his JDM times and gained his Ag Ch.

Basically we are cueing full extension or various degrees of collection.

This is a great explanation TSD. And the bit I've bolded seems to me to be very important in terms of keeping our dogs sound and in the game longer.

For me as an older not fit handler with a pretty fast driving dog, even with nowhere near enough H360 work, it gives me the chance to send him round the backside still some distance from the jump and check check cues him to wrap tight and turn back to me without me having to be anywhere near the jump. The dogs seem to enjoy that we will be communicating with them through the course more or less clearly .. think that adds to their speed and certainty, and therefore enjoyment.