Dog Attack In Canberra

[melzawelza]

We have had an average of one death per year from dog attacks in this country for for the last 30 years. I'm sure it was happening previously to that too, seeing as it hadn't changed in all that time. Any death is awful but that's very low numbers considering how many dogs live alongside us in this country.

I don't have Australian stats (they probably don't exist) but dog attacks on the whole have hugely declined in the US since the 70s. Leasing laws, containment, a less lax attitude to pet ownership, desexing and education makes a big different. I see no reason why it wouldn't the same here.

Again, the attacks aren't worse, it is simply that no one would hear about any but the very bad ones in their immediate area. Social media means we hear about *everything*.

Edited March 5, 2016 by melzawelza

[BarbedWire]

I think this post made some excellent points especially the bolded parts although I am not happy to blame only a certain breed. I think that most offending dogs today are mixes. In the past if a dog was threatening (ie hackles up and growling) it would back off when yelled at or if something was thrown at it. Today some dogs are not so easily subdued. They do not respect people.

I think that dog attacks today can be much more serious than they used to be. When I was growing up people did not get killed, or have their noses bitten off. Dogs did not enter people's lounge rooms and tear dogs out of their owner's arms and kill them. Actually dog fighting was not a big issue. If 2 dogs had a spat someone would turn a hose on them or chuck a bucket of water over them and that would be the end of it.

I would like to bring this post forward and point out that by dog fighting I meant dogs having a disagreement in the street, not two dogs out to kill each other. This thread is about public safety and the seriousness of dog attacks (surely no-one can ever forget Ayen Chol) not how often or where they are reported. And it is also about how once dogs have been declared dangerous they are released back into the community with no adequate supervision that the owners will abide by the dangerous dog provisions. I would not like to be the owners of the dog that was killed. I imagine they would justifiably feel very unsafe.

It is confusing to talk about dog fighting, then saying two dogs out to kill each other do not count as fighting, especially in a thread where some dogs have killed others?

Maybe it will finally clarify what I am trying to say if I word it this way 'my reference to dog fighting in my post meant dogs having a disagreement in the street, not two dogs out to kill each other.'

ETA I did follow up my original use of dog fighting with 'If 2 dogs had a spat' which is a petty quarrel according to my dictionary.

ef clarity

Edited March 6, 2016 by sarspididious

[BarbedWire]

We have had an average of one death per year from dog attacks in this country for for the last 30 years. I'm sure it was happening previously to that too, seeing as it hadn't changed in all that time. Any death is awful but that's very low numbers considering how many dogs live alongside us in this country.

I don't have Australian stats (they probably don't exist) but dog attacks on the whole have hugely declined in the US since the 70s. Leasing laws, containment, a less lax attitude to pet ownership, desexing and education makes a big different. I see no reason why it wouldn't the same here.

Again, the attacks aren't worse, it is simply that no one would hear about any but the very bad ones in their immediate area. Social media means we hear about *everything*.

MW with all due respect we don't know. There are no figures for dog attacks previously.

And one death a year is too many IMO.

[Willem]

We have had an average of one death per year from dog attacks in this country for for the last 30 years. I'm sure it was happening previously to that too, seeing as it hadn't changed in all that time. Any death is awful but that's very low numbers considering how many dogs live alongside us in this country.

I don't have Australian stats (they probably don't exist) but dog attacks on the whole have hugely declined in the US since the 70s. Leasing laws, containment, a less lax attitude to pet ownership, desexing and education makes a big different. I see no reason why it wouldn't the same here.

Again, the attacks aren't worse, it is simply that no one would hear about any but the very bad ones in their immediate area. Social media means we hear about *everything*.

you made some statements here which I assume you won't be able to verify:

e.g.

• ...attacks declined in the US: while this Wikipedia source'only' lists the fatalities, it clearly indicates that the numbers are rising...
  
• ...desexing makes a big difference????...you will have difficulties to verify this - according to this theory Norway must have one of the highest dog attacks records as they don't allow and promote desexing...
  

Edited March 5, 2016 by Willem

[BarbedWire]

I don't plan to ignore you Snook. I value your posts which are usually warm and empathetic.

My comments were based on my personal experience as someone who lived at that time. Your experience with the GSD is equally valid but of course it is more recent almost up to the time when records were being kept. A good historian would question the reliability of parts of those early records though especially about the identification of breeds. When I was growing up GSDs, which were then called Alsatians, were feared and there were special regulations about how they were to be contained. They were often used as police dogs or guard dogs especially of Used Car Yards where they were contained behind high cyclone wire fences with barbed wire along the top.

The following article explains how historians evaluate the past and please don't be offended if it is something you already know. I just thought it might be of interest. The bolding is mine.

Tools used by historians Education College & Higher Education Other Higher Education

What Are the Tools Used by a Historian?

By Lauren Agra

The past is often murky, so historians use a number of tools to help them decode the world of yesterday. Historians conduct interviews for first-hand impressions of past events. More direct commentary is available from primary sources, like artifacts and photographs. Historians share their findings in scholarly journals, which allow them to build on each discovery. Books let historians share their extended research and become familiar with areas outside their expertise.

Primary Sources

Primary sources are original documents or artifacts that help shed light on an era. Examples of primary sources include diaries, pamphlets, eyewitness accounts, photographs, fabrics and manuscripts. Historians use primary sources whenever possible to try to create as accurate a picture of the past as possible. Primary sources may reveal aspects of events previously overlooked or suggest new interpretations of data. For example, a diary from the Jacobite Rebellion might provide new insight into how the public perceived the warring parties.

Scholarly Journals

Academics publish their research in scholarly journals, where their peers can read and analyze their findings. Reputable scholarly journals used by historians have a review process, where a board of editors approve research before it's included in the journal. This helps guard against the inclusion of inaccurate or inappropriate research. There are history-themed scholarly journals where historians can read the work of others and submit their own papers. Examples include the "Journal of American History," "Journal of World History" and "American Ethic History." Journals give historians a valuable opportunity to keep up on the work of their peers and exchange discoveries.

Personal Interviews

Historians use old interviews as primary sources, but they also create new interviews of their own. New interviews are valuable tools for gaining insight into controversial or ill-documented events. People selected for interview may include political figures, war survivors or elderly community members with unique memories. Historians record and transcribe these interviews and use them in their research. Often, historians donate their interviews to a community or university library. This ensures the interview is preserved for future generations and allows other historians access to their work. Scholarly interviews are also refereed to as "oral histories."

Books Are Key

Books are a key research tool for historians because they distill large amounts of information into manageable portions. A good historian may be able to condense thousands of primary sources into a single, readable volume. History volumes are not the only books that help historians. Books from specialists in other fields, like sociology and economics, help historians grasp concepts from areas outside their field. This is important because accurate historical analysis includes insight from a wide range of subjects, including ones that historians might not necessarily be experts on. For example, a good book on ecology would help a historian understand how agricultural pollution contributed to the historical decline of a civilization.

[BarbedWire]

Yes, GSDs/Alsatians were once targeted in a similar way to how Pitbulls/bull breeds are targeted now. The two who were owned by our neighbour were just kept in the back yard behind a wooden fence and his kids, along with myself and other kids in the street, were never afraid of them and used to go and play in their yard.

Thanks for the info about sources for historians. I learned about primary and secondary sources at school and uni and agree that it would be very difficult to get an accurate picture of that time period now. I stand by what I said about most incidents not being reported and believe this is why there are few historical records to go on, rather than it being because attacks/bites/fights didn't happen but of course, I can't prove it.

I can't prove it either way myself. I just gave my experience for what it's worth and based on my experience dog attacks were not very common because I never heard of them. I grew up in Melbourne and my family always had dogs and I knew about dogs and was always interested in them. Once upon a time I wanted to be a vet. As I said earlier I did get nipped once by a GSD but I don't think it even broke the skin and I would not classify it as an attack. I told my father and he complained to the owner and told him to keep his dog in which I believe the owner did although I can't remember.

Just for the record I do not hate bull breeds. My family got our first boxer in the 1960s and I have owned five boxers since the 1970s until about 6 years ago when my last boxer boy died and I decided that boxers were too big for me. My older son has a boxer and my younger son wants one when he has his own place.

[Purdie]

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Edited March 6, 2016 by Purdie

[cannibalgoldfish]

Maybe, just maybe... a result of more reporting of dog issues/attacks and more social media exposure today... more people today will be dog savvy? If things are reported more, maybe that includes good ownership as well? I can dream....

[BlaznHotAussies]

Maybe, just maybe... a result of more reporting of dog issues/attacks and more social media exposure today... more people today will be dog savvy? If things are reported more, maybe that includes good ownership as well? I can dream....

Can I dream with you? I'm hoping that too.

But from my observations, people don't get it I'm friends on FB with a girl, who's got herself a boyfriend (who knows how long this one will last), and they've got themselves a blue Am staff thing for it to have puppies. That's fine, I get it, people get sucked into the "rare" colours thing, but then their friends were commenting suggesting body building supps for the puppy already? And asking how big the sire was (in kg) etc.? It was the weirdest thing I've ever witnessed. to do with dogs anyway.

My SIL was telling me about two pitbulls she had about a decade ago, they were brought up with humans, inside, cushy life, they'd go out horseriding with her and lived on a farm, were very loved, well-socialised, went to horse shows - the works - she did everything right. At 4 and 6 years of age, they started attacking and killing things. I don't want to say specific details but they weren't afraid of taking on a riding pony stallion

My dog Robo was also attacked by an entire staff/mastiff X, purely for being an entire male - I know for a fact Robo wouldn't have shown any aggression or dominance as he was usually submissive (15 month Aussie Shepherd vs 3-4 year old arsehole) and the other dog needed a few boots to the head to let go. I have had a couple of scraps at home where the dogs work out the pecking order and normally a loud growl is enough to stop them!

My biggest fear when I see a big dog with the big jaws (sorry bully people, but yes your dogs have big jaws and yes they will know how to use them) is that IF it takes a dislike to my dog, my dog will always come off second best. So hearing stories about these dogs roaming the streets and being so good at escaping and basically everything about them fairly scares me.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Update on this story in the newspaper today

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/owner-to-euthanise-dogs-after-november-attacks-20160803-gqjy09.html

[asal]

interesting that the two who went through a door and killed are simply declared dangerous dogs and it was the owner who has decided to have them put down.

yet this dog, the local council has ordered to be put down because a neighbor has complained about it barking?

http://blog.change.org/change-au/this-family-dog-with-sunnies-could-be-seized-destroyed-for-barking

[sandgrubber]

I don't think it's a lax attitude, no one here wants dogs roaming and biting at will. I was just commenting that it is more likely that more attacks are reported now days rather than there being a rise in attacks.

I confess, as kids we enjoyed the roaming dogs in our neighborhood, and learned a lot about dogs from playing with them. There was a Basset who always went to the school, cause he loved kids and an epileptic poodle...a few Labs who played fetch. The only bad one was a Dane who was into humping, scary for kids. We all got lots of laughs out of the Daschund who went through cat doors . . . but one day got stuck cause his privates wouldn't clear the bottom. I don't remember any dog fights, or anyone getting bitten. The really bad thing was so many dogs got hit by cars.

[karen15]

Asal, totally different council. If the Canberra dogs had of been in Brisbane it would have been dealt with very swiftly. That petition you linked annoys the crap out of me as the dog had been barking for two years. The woman would have received multiple correspondence about the issue, but because she is a selfish self centred individual, she has done nothing to address the issue. All she says is the dog doesn't bark much. Well no, to get to this stage the dog is barking A LOT! To keep the necessary documentation on this takes a lot of effort. It isn't just one or two complaints. I lived next to a pair of barking mongrel border collies. They barked non stop. Their people were home and did SFA to stop them. There is nothing worse than having a major concussion or being home sick, or merely trying to sleep at night, and having mutts bark non stop. Despite numerous complaints and me talking directly to the neighbours, nothing happened. Fortunately I moved from that cul-de-sac to a main, 4 lane road. The peace here is blissful.

With respect to dog attacks, my experience with Brisbane City Council has been fantastic. My staffy was attacked by an Irish wolf hound at around 6.30 am. I reported it as soon as I was home. An inspector was at my house by 8.30, but we were at the vets. By the time he returned at 12.30 he had been to the dog and spoken to the witness. Dog was declared dangerous pretty quickly after that. As it hadn't drawn blood, I believe that's why it got that classification. The staffy had strips peeling off from where he'd been bitten, but I'd gotten it off him before it could latch on and puncture.

How did I get it off? Dropped the lead (ick - didn't want to!), waited for it to pin my dog to the ground, stepped up behind it and locked my legs in behind it's ribs, grabbed its collar and twisted and lifted. The lady who saw it was amazed I managed to get it off. If it had been my current dogs (westie and cocker), they would have been seriously injured. Ever since that day I seriously distrust off lead dogs and will actively get after them if they approach in any manner. Most owners dislike that, but they are the ones breaking the law by having their dogs off lead, so they really have no come back.