Advice Regarding Second Dog

[kami]

Some great points Leah. Huw and I have had a cooling off period, and while we absolutely adore the ex byb dog and we are so close to being the right owners, because of bub it is probably not ideal.....we have accepted we are not mr and mrs. Right for this pup. Hard because except bub we would be suited...

Scootaloo that is a great idea, we will have a look online and see if there is a well trained mature ex breeders dog that might suit our situation.

[dee lee]

Very good points raised. I'd strongly advise against getting a dog with problems with small children.

Dealing with the dog's problems (which, trust me, can't always be fixed like Annie's) can be a very tough call when you have a small baby/toddler and another dog. You don't want to make life that hard for you and your family. I did it when my kids were little & I bitterly regretted it. My current dog is a blissfully easy family dog who has no issues. She's the best dog in the world for us.

I'd just wait for the right dog to come along.

[Salukifan]

Is there any reason you aren't looking at another working breed?

I honestly think dogs love have a companion that they 'get'. Same body language, temperament, play styles etc. Often the easier way to ensure that is to go for another of the same breed.

No need not to change if you'd like something different but I also think a Kelpie might not be the best companion for a few breeds.

[kami]

We are considering working breeds (have met with a border collie cross today (unfortunately crossed with staffy, a little too focused on wrestling and mouthing rather than chasey for Annies liking) - she got very frustrated with how mouthy he was. So far rusty the beagle (who is still available) is winning, their play was reciprocal and not too dominant on either side . Tomorrow we meet a supposed kelpie cross (chipped as lab/staffy) so hopefully that will be a winner.

[Dogsfevr]

Have you considered a Greyhound ,its not a breed i often suggest ( i have owned them plus our gundogs) but this could be a good fit for what you want.

A more laid back dog,not mouthy ,prefers chasy & a nice calming nature ,

[kami]

Would totally love a greyhouse except we have a pet pigeon. I figured small flappy bird and greyhound might not live harmoniously together.

[Dogsfevr]

Would totally love a greyhouse except we have a pet pigeon. I figured small flappy bird and greyhound might not live harmoniously together.

Actually that is incorrect ,its ashame people seem to think Greys just anything ,they don't & like any dog you get there is no guarantee this part of your family will be a success & i would be more wary of considering a Gundog breed like you have with a bird .

Our Greys where far more trusting around little animals than our other breeds ,

[kami]

Thanks showdog this is really good to know. I think also a greyhound may have a temperment Annie would like more, so far she seems to really not gel with staffies in one on one ofg leash time (we met another today (as it met all our other requirements and totally ignores birds) and she dislikes the roughhouse style of play staffies have.

Tomorrow we go to pets havens adoption day, hopefully we can find the right sort of dog for us.

So far of the dogs we have met it is:

1. Beagle (annie loved this dog, but ? How dog with be with small birds) still available.

2. Staffy from today (good with birds, settled with annie after time and a walk together. However Annie didnt like him, but tolerated him).

[kami]

So, having gotten a second dog, I finally have time for an update (lol).

In the end we went with the beagle I was so certain was not right for us - hence to be known as Rusty the destroyer. Whilst he is a destructo dog compared to Annie, this is outweighed by the many other positive qualities he has.

Rusty has:

- Managed to eat some undoubtably tasty solar lighting flowers.

- excavated under the decking in the search for that mysterious 'smell'.

- is working on perfecting the snatch n grab when it comes to washing on the line.

- has trained us very well to reward him for leaving the kitchen and pantry )off limits area) to counteract his selective hearing

- taught Annie the joys of tug of war with our clothing.

- chomped his way through 1 teflon coated bed, and two cheaper normal beds.

- assisted with gardening duties by eating multiple potted plants and their roots.

- many other items that have now paled in significance.

But we do really love him.

Rusty is eager to learn, is learning to pay attention to us rather than his nose, and is, as the guys from Underdog said, 'bombproof'. A complete opposite to Annie. He is the ultimate cool cat, some anxiety issues (we presume from previous owners - he was apparently crate trained, but terrified of the crate - his prev owners used to keep a choker collar on him as he managed to chew other collars off). His anxiety issues have easy resolved with early intervention. Good with our pet pigeon, children, other dogs and rarely jumps up on people. Has the most gentle spirit, and the softest mouth for taking treats. Incredibly tolerant of Annie who we have learnt is:

- a food guarder (easily managed by seperate crate feeding, and long lasting treats only in crates)

- severely anxious in comparison to Rusty.

- requires much management in positive reinforcing of polite doggy manners.

- more anxious, but less bored having a friend who can keep up with games of chasey and who she can play bitey face with.

- can now be left with Rusty in the backyard while we go out without howling/barking! (Progress!!!)

Retrospectively, did we just make our lives much harder by getting a second dog, especially a baby on the way? Undoubtably. Have we considered taking our delightful scamp back? In the first horrible month, yes. For me, for the first horrible three months.

Would we do it all again if we knew what we do now? Huw says, in a heart beat. I say, I am not sure. It has made us aware of how much work Annie is in comparison, managing her behaviourally, is a constant ongoing job to ensure she remains level. Annie's beauty lies in what she is achieving within obedience, and her readiness to please.

Rusty on the other hand, despite being a destructo dog, is a lesson in relaxation for us.

It wouldnt be a new addition update without a super cute video/pics, so I will post some soon,

Til next time,

Susie, Huw, Annie and Rusty the destroyer.

[persephone]

:) thanks for the update - sounds as if life is NOT boring , that's for sure . looking forward to photos !!

[BlaznHotAussies]

Wow! Sounds like a huge learning curve, for sure. Totally feel you there with the gardening duties & excavations, how helpful!

Thanks for the update

[kami]

play time Edited January 12, 2016 by kami

[tikira]

Great to hear things are working out, and we really appreciate a candid look at the pro's and cons of an additional dog, too many people gloss over the hard parts, which really gives a skewed picture of reality. In every situation here is an adjustment period, and people looking to do what you have done need to be aware of this, and know it will take time to work through the changes and to find a new "normal"... but it can be so worth the anxt!

Keep updating us through this time, and tell us again in six months if you think it was worth it.... you too will say a huge YES in a heartbeat! I know this because we have had the same issues, and I am sure so has everyone else here!

Cheers Di

[Two Best Dogs!]

Glad it's working out!

[kami]

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. It is a little stressful at the moment as Annie is showing signs of toy guarding as well as food guarding at times with Rusty (food guarding mainly eliminated through feeding seperately in crates, and long lasting treats only being given in separate crates). She has never given Rusty a serious bite, but has snapped lunged and given him whale eye when guarding something. What frightens me is the unpredictability of Annies behaviour.

The part I am really struggling with is the impending birth of our son. I am frightened that Annie may start resource guarding around food/toys from our son as well. While you can never leave a dog unsupervised around a young child or baby, it does make me nervous as toddlers invariably drop food, and will grab things they are interested in to explore. I am particularly nervous as Annie does not growl, but will snarl and just lash out. On the plus side we do have a fair bit of time before son is crawling/walking.

We are going to arrange for Annie to see our usual trainers, and maybe even a new one just in case of an additional perspective, so we can get help to really 'bombproof' (though she never really will be bombproof) Annie as much as possible to see humans approaching her food /toys as a good thing (which she has prior to second dog - would and will exchange toys for treats, wait for food ect, drop bones for treats ect - but not so much if rusty is there). We are willing to commit to trainers every couple of weeks to monthly to work on this stuff with us for a few months with us then continuing this ourselves.

What we would like to do:

- lots of positive associations between food/humans, get professional help to ensure we go about making lots of awesome positive associations between humans/food for Annie in the hopes it will for the little one

- have a dog free area in our lounge room with baby gates

- continue separated feeding, but introduce feeding dinner in other areas with positive food/human reinforcement so hopefully Annie doesn't develop crate guarding (she has shown one onstance of this).

- continue working with small treats and nilf and alternate rewarding with both dogs(if rusty gets something, so does annie, for giving him space/a trick).

Any ideas? Its really hard to ignore the protective part of me that wants to ensure our son is safe, that part of me also is quite frightened of Annies aggression towards Rusty, particularly given her lack of warning signals to dogs and humans (at the vet) when she is going to snap.

Is it dangerous to have a dog that shows these behaviours when you will have a child in the house? We love Annie very much, and have worked very hard to get her calmer and more balanced, and are willing to continue to work on these issues - but I still feel very strong fears and concerns about baby's safety.

We have considered returning Rusty at various points, as this behaviour was not evident prior to having a second dog, however we love Rusty dearly, and Annie also loves him 95 % of the time. God forbid, the thought of rehoming Annie has also crossed our minds, as we wonder about the safety of her around our baby (rusty on the other hand, is much more relaxed and less fixated on humans/food despite being a beagle) . We always have believed a dog is for life, but I could not forgive myself if she hurt our son. Do not fear, this is not an option we would consider lightly or easily.

Thoughts? Are we mad for persevering and trying so hard? Does Annie have good prospects for rehabilitation with serious early intervention? What should come first?

A little note to anyone who reads this after considering adding a second dog, be careful as your seemingly aggression free dog may prove otherwise when you add a second dog into the mix.

Susie.

Edited January 19, 2016 by kami

[Aziah]

I often feel when reading your posts that you are over analysing some normal dog behaviours? At home, I expect small scuffles, growls and snaps over toys and food, that to me is how animals communicate about what is acceptable in their little relationships. I do however understand that you have concerns over the impending arrival of your baby.

The bonus right now is that you have seen these behaviours prior to the baby arriving and prior to the baby being on the receiving end.

So... is she aggressive or is she...normal?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Aziah

[kami]

Good question aziah. It is quite possible I am over analysing behaviour. I suppose on the positive side, we have lots of time to put in place good management systems to minimise risk, and promote positive behaviour. It is quite possible she is normal, and displaying dog aggressive behavior which is normal in doggie world. It is a change for us, as none was evident prior to rusty, so it does come as a shock.

[RuralPug]

I tend to agree with Aziah about over analysing, although I think this is a MUCH better attitude than the common "ignore and allow to escalate" that creates problem dogs.

I honestly think your plans are excellent and as long as you keep observing, you won't have any escalating problems.

The other othing to remember is Annie's resource guarding treats from another dog does not mean that she will resource guard from a toddler, it only means that she might and I think you are doing everything right to avoid that sort of behaviour escalating into anything of a major problem.

Keep up the great work!

New babies are totally exhausting, so please be ready to shift the burden of keeping both dogs mentally and physically exercised to your other half for the first few weeks after the birth at the very least.