Melza83 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Hi, I bought my English staffy over 12 months ago as a pup. His breeders wanted him to go on breeders terms. While I paid for him at a "discounted rate" there never has been a contract. He is now 17mo, the breeders have a bitch that doesn't get along with my boys mother so left it to the last minute to notify me that both bitches are in heat and demanded they use my dog who I'm not ready to breed with at the moment. They believe they still have rights to him and refuse to pay me for his services. They have used me in the past to house sit, baby sit their kids, dog sit and puppy sit whilst my dog and his litter where still suckling and being weaned without getting paid, while I was still having to go half an hour down the highway to my place and feed my own animals and travel to work as well. Now I feel that both my dog and I are being used by these people as "a meal ticket". I have let them use him even though they refuse to pay for his services to keep the peace but I'm not happy as he will be with the other bitch 24/7, milked for sperm and kept outside until the weekend when hopefully I'll get him back. Do I have any rights to not have anything to do with these horrible people or should I just suck it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did they kidnap you and lock you up at their place to preform these house sitting duties? If so I would be calling the police. Yes they have rights to use him for sperm seeing as those were the terms under which you purchased him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 And rule no 5 of this forum: No denigration of responsible, registered breeders and breeding practices Our site has a lot of breeders with a lot of knowledge to share. We will not tolerate members who denigrate (however subtle) responsible breeders and breeding practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did they kidnap you and lock you up at their place to preform these house sitting duties? If so I would be calling the police. Yes they have rights to use him for sperm seeing as those were the terms under which you purchased him. yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I'd say that if you bought your dog at a "discounted" fee and the agreement (written or verbal) was for the breeder to be able to use him at stud whenever they wanted to, then you are bound by that agreement... It sucks, but that's what you agreed to when you handed over the money and took him home. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did they kidnap you and lock you up at their place to preform these house sitting duties? If so I would be calling the police. Yes they have rights to use him for sperm seeing as those were the terms under which you purchased him. yes. I agree with most of this sentiment - but it depends on the terms of the agreement. Did they say "I can have access to the dog whenever I want, for however long, for the rest of the dog's life"? Either agree to it, or say "no" and be prepared for them to go to the petty claims court (or whatever it is called these days). Re: the rule re: breeders. Any breeder who sells a dog to a stranger on breeding terms with no actual contract can't be that responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) It used to be that no one used contracts and a persons word was their bond. It is fairly common practice to place a male in a loving pet home but still request access to the dog to be used at stud without paying a stud fee. Many people have done it, still do it, and have no problem with it. Nowdays of course written contracts are more common, but bottom line is you entered into an agreement with the owner when you bought the dog that they could use the dog in return for you purchasing the dog at a reduced fee. Everything else you talk about to me just sounds like the things I do for friends and friends do for me. Really your beef sounds a personal one and has not much to do with the dog being used at stud in accordance with the terms you originally agreed to. I suggest you sit down and talk it through with the breeder like adults and come to some agreement that you are both happy with. Edited November 10, 2015 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Did they kidnap you and lock you up at their place to preform these house sitting duties? If so I would be calling the police. Yes they have rights to use him for sperm seeing as those were the terms under which you purchased him. yes. I agree with most of this sentiment - but it depends on the terms of the agreement. Did they say "I can have access to the dog whenever I want, for however long, for the rest of the dog's life"? Either agree to it, or say "no" and be prepared for them to go to the petty claims court (or whatever it is called these days). Re: the rule re: breeders. Any breeder who sells a dog to a stranger on breeding terms with no actual contract can't be that responsible. not much of a stranger if they have house sat, dog sat etc Edited November 10, 2015 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 There appear to be a lot of sour grapes in this thread. And good reasons never to place a dog on breeders terms in a pet home. What a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 There appear to be a lot of sour grapes in this thread. And good reasons never to place a dog on breeders terms in a pet home. What a shame. Which is a big pity as it means potentially that many pet owners will miss out on owning good dogs. And breeders breeding programs will be affected as they breed less often - or have to keep more dogs themselves which is becoming harder and harder to do in this day and age. Partnerships in breeding where dogs are placed in loving homes but still may be accessed by a breeder are a win win for the dogs themselves and for our precious breeds that we work so hard to maintain. Makes me very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) ....His breeders wanted him to go on breeders terms. While I paid for him at a "discounted rate" there never has been a contract.... ...that's an oxymoron...you know it was a discounted rate, you paid him and you got the dog...so that makes a contract between 2 parties with legal obligations. I can only speculate that you meant 'not a written contract'. While written contracts and their small print can be a PIA, sometimes they also make live much easier. Edited: replaced 'legal contract' with the more precise wording 'contract between 2 parties with legal obligations' Edited November 10, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melza83 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) No, there was no kidnapping, I have done the same for friends in the past and not given it a second thought. I did it because I'm a good person and he's a former employee where I work. It was just a verbal agreement, there were no terms on when the dog was to be used or how long he was to be used for. That's why I was asking if I have any rights not to allow them to use the dog in question. They are knowledgeable breeders. I won't be entering into breeders terms again. I feel like handing the dog back to them. Thanks for the advice everyone:) Edited November 10, 2015 by Melza83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 The other thing that strikes me about this thread and the other thread about breeder's terms is the issue of money. A number of leading breeders, including Juha Kares, have said that once you start relying on dog breeding for money you have a problem because it affects all your decisions. I know there are people on this forum who disagree with me, but I personally think that the minute money comes into it the risk of decisions and feelings going bad goes up markedly. I've taken the path my father took - get a good job and use it to support your hobby. That way I can do what I think is best in any given situation without worrying about money. We have a few stud dogs which we own outright. No contract. If the breeder of one of those dogs wanted to bring a bitch here I would set up the spare room and get the kettle on and I would not have my hand out. Because they took a chance on us and sold us a dog outright and have provided years of support and advice. Do we agree with what they do all the time? No. Do they agree with what we do all the time? No. But that's not necessary to have a productive relationship and shared goals. For people for whom money is scarce, or a measure of success (always wanting to win at any deal) then I think they are better off not entering into these sorts of arrangements at all. This is not a car or a fridge, but a companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canisbellum Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, there was no kidnapping. I did it because I'm a good person but then they took advantage of that. It was just a verbal agreement, there were no terms on when the dog was to be used or how long he was to be used for. That's why I was asking if I have any rights not to allow them to use the dog in question. They are knowledgeable breeders. I won't be entering into breeders terms again. I feel like handing the dog back to them. Thanks for the advice everyone:) Sounds like your dog is an appliance to you. You entered into an agreement and took advantage of the reduced price. Now it sounds like because it isn't written down and doesn't suit you any more you want to weasel out of it? Maybe do as has been suggested and sit down with them and discuss terms and treatment of the dog that suits you both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, there was no kidnapping. I did it because I'm a good person but then they took advantage of that. It was just a verbal agreement, there were no terms on when the dog was to be used or how long he was to be used for. That's why I was asking if I have any rights not to allow them to use the dog in question. They are knowledgeable breeders. I won't be entering into breeders terms again. I feel like handing the dog back to them. Thanks for the advice everyone:) Send the dog back then. Sounds like you have you nose out of joint cause they aren't paying you for the dogs services. As with the other person complaining they are hard done by, I don't necessarily agree with these terms, but you agreed to them so now you have to live with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, there was no kidnapping. I did it because I'm a good person but then they took advantage of that. It was just a verbal agreement, there were no terms on when the dog was to be used or how long he was to be used for. That's why I was asking if I have any rights not to allow them to use the dog in question. They are knowledgeable breeders. I won't be entering into breeders terms again. I feel like handing the dog back to them. Thanks for the advice everyone:) If you feel you can not live up to the terms of the agreement you made with them when you bought the dog, then handing the dog back may indeed be the best option for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaznHotAussies Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Milking him for sperm? pretty sure that's not how dog breeding works (unless they're doing AI but if he's around the bitch full time it doesn't seem like that's the case)?? These threads are getting ridiculous. Do you not even care about a breeders' needs? You should be happy that a breeder has entrusted you to look after a future stud dog until it's ready to breed. But anyway, were you not told this would be part of it, even though there's no contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Hi, I bought my English staffy over 12 months ago as a pup. His breeders wanted him to go on breeders terms. While I paid for him at a "discounted rate" there never has been a contract. He is now 17mo, the breeders have a bitch that doesn't get along with my boys mother so left it to the last minute to notify me that both bitches are in heat and demanded they use my dog who I'm not ready to breed with at the moment. They believe they still have rights to him and refuse to pay me for his services. They have used me in the past to house sit, baby sit their kids, dog sit and puppy sit whilst my dog and his litter where still suckling and being weaned without getting paid, while I was still having to go half an hour down the highway to my place and feed my own animals and travel to work as well. Now I feel that both my dog and I are being used by these people as "a meal ticket". I have let them use him even though they refuse to pay for his services to keep the peace but I'm not happy as he will be with the other bitch 24/7, milked for sperm and kept outside until the weekend when hopefully I'll get him back. Do I have any rights to not have anything to do with these horrible people or should I just suck it up? What were the terms you agreed to? "Dog available for stud services" is about the standard one for males. Why do you need to be ready to breed the dog? It's not like you're going to be expected to supervise the matings is it? Good people honour their obligations and don't gripe about them on social media. Sorry but that halo is slipping. Cowboy up, let the dog be used and talk about what the arrangement entails going forward. If health testing needs to be done, the breeder should be paying for it. Free stud services for the breeders dogs and 50% of the fee for outside bitches is pretty standard. No way would I put a dog out on breeders terms to "pet owners". This is what you get. Perhaps giving the dog back would be best. Edited November 11, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 English staffys.....Are we even talking about registered ANKC pedigree Staffordshire Bull Terriers here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Hi, I bought my English staffy over 12 months ago as a pup. His breeders wanted him to go on breeders terms. While I paid for him at a "discounted rate" there never has been a contract. He is now 17mo, the breeders have a bitch that doesn't get along with my boys mother so left it to the last minute to notify me that both bitches are in heat and demanded they use my dog who I'm not ready to breed with at the moment. Why are you not ready to breed with him? Did you have a conversation about when you would breed with him and how often? They believe they still have rights to him and refuse to pay me for his services. Uh... well ... Wouldnt that be covered in the agreement - verbal or written? They have used me in the past to house sit, baby sit their kids, dog sit and puppy sit whilst my dog and his litter where still suckling and being weaned without getting paid, while I was still having to go half an hour down the highway to my place and feed my own animals and travel to work as well. Now I feel that both my dog and I are being used by these people as "a meal ticket". This sounds like a reasonably un-related matter. Actually sounds like a friendship or house sitting arrangement gone sour - I'm sure we've all been there, done that, in one way or another. I'd keep the house sitting separate to the gripes you have over the breeding terms. Chalk that one up to experience and don't house sit for them again. I have let them use him even though they refuse to pay for his services to keep the peace but I'm not happy as he will be with the other bitch 24/7, milked for sperm and kept outside until the weekend when hopefully I'll get him back. Do I have any rights to not have anything to do with these horrible people or should I just suck it up? I would write a list of things directly related to the dog and the breeding that you want to address and have a cup of tea with them to discuss it. Eg. Where your dog is to be housed during the time, can you drop him off 2 or 3 times during the course of her season or pick him up when they're satisfied he's done the job? Can you renegotiate the terms of the contract? Can you buy them out of the contract & have him desexed? What would you consider fair payment for his service? How many mating's do they expect from him - how many times per year do they expect to access him? What do you think is fair from your point of view? What would happen if you moved interstate with him? Formalise the agreement, get some clarity around the things you dislike and hopefully you can move on, because honestly you sound a little but whingy - but I would be too if I thought these arrangements had been sprung on me - but I'd say there has just been a miscommunication here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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