Not Sure If I Should Be Happy Or Peeved...

[Steph M]

I think in the case of mice and rats etc they're a pest species, so people can feel they're doing no harm.

God knows when we were growing up our indoor/outdoor cats used to get multiple mice a week, as did all the local other cats I bet and it hasn't impacted the population much now!

I have to admit Rosie gets the odd bird, probably one every 3 months?

I'll look out the window and she goes from laying down in the sun to airborne to crunch in milliseconds.

Thankfully though all she's ever gotten are those awful minah birds. We have a yard full of fruit trees so we get Rosella's and parrots, honeyeaters and cockatoos/major Mitchell's etc and she doesn't bother them, even when they're wandering between trees.

Admittedly after watching what those awful minah birds do to the parrots and nests I don't feel so bad after, but it's not at all encouraged and she still gets called off if I see her thinking about it or with one she's got.

Not sure how you'd combat that other than keeping her in when she couldn't be watched, which is not practical.

she's half whippet and if that drive kicks in its probably insanely rewarding, and she is sneaky so will just wait til no one can see her like the bench surfing haha, we just make sure she has other outlets and a good run a day and generally no real problems.

[Willem]

So you don't mind cats killing wildlife then either?

Cats shouldn't be allowed to roam (and kill) Double standards

I cannot understand the double standard when people go mad about cats killing birds but don't mind one bit when they kill rats, mice & snakes.

Aren't they wildlife & living creatures too ?

I agree cats should not be allowed to roam & mine don't but its not for the birds sake as I believe birds reproduce faster & more than cats & most well fed domestic cats don't kill & eat a huge amount.

Having said that my cats have outside enclosed runs & I took 2 dead bird out of one bed yesterday. Silly birds go in the runs & in one the sparrows nest in the top which I constantly block & they always return. They sit on a big tree branch in there & eat the cat biscuits out of the cats bowl. Suicidal tendencies

My toy poodles also catch an odd bird but not frequently & I have to pen around one low tree they nest in every year, despite having plenty of high options.

Back on track the OP said she was proud of the dogs recall not of it killing the bird.

...rats and mice and common myna bird are no native Australian animals and therefore not classified as wildlife. Killing them increases actually the chances for native animals / wildlife so IMO if a dog (or cat) kills those invasive species it is something that should be appreciated. The problems with cats if they a) are not neutered, and b) are roaming, is that they become also an invasive animal doing real damage to wildlife. (The same can be said about wild roaming dogs). Since we have our dog our backyard in nearly rat and mice and myna bird free (and I appreciate that I don't have to fight them with traps etc.); occasionally she also catches an unlucky pigeon or another native bird - IMO the benefits for us and the native animals outweighs the occasional 'casualties'. To avoid that she is chasing wildlife while walking her, we train the 'leave it - take it' game with the so called 'flirt pole'...and she is so far that she not only drops the rag on the other end of the 'flirt pole' after she caught it, but also interrupts the chase on 'leave it'.

[Christina]

Snakes are native species too & no one complains when the cat goes into battle with them & is the victor.

Thinking about it more people kill our native snakes more than cats do.

Humans kill more animals than all the other animal species put together.

Gosh I am unusually arguementative today :laugh:

Edited November 4, 2015 by Christina

[LisaCC]

Plenty of people complain about the killing of snakes. They do in my circles anyway.

I'm not sure what your point is about humans killing animals. Does that mean we shouldn't minimise the harm to natives from animals we've introduced by simply controlling their roaming?

[Scottsmum]

Whoops. I totally didn't mean for this thread to go here. I dont condone the killing of any native animals and certainly dont support the inhumane dispatch of any pests either.

I wasnt impressed with what he did, only his willingness to leave & recall.

[BlaznHotAussies]

He's a dog

Robo once caught a Myna, he ran out of the stables, it took flight & on reflex he jumped and grabbed it. He had it in his mouth for a split second, dropped it (he probably didn't expect to catch it) & when it went to fly again he grabbed it. I think he ended up letting it go... He wasn't a hunting dog. If his toy squeaked he'd lick it better.

My parents' dog Beau (Robo's brother), on the other hand, will have a ball running around the farm, kills rabbits, chases birds...

[Guest Clover]

There is a big difference between a dog catching the occasional bird and roaming mongrel cats taking out wildlife just for fun.

Scootaloo that reminds me of the time my Mums chi x caught a mouse. He was happily strutting back with it until it came to and moved. The poor mouse got spat out and the dog look horrified and let it go.

[Guest donatella]

There is a big difference between a dog catching the occasional bird and roaming mongrel cats taking out wildlife just for fun.

Scootaloo that reminds me of the time my Mums chi x caught a mouse. He was happily strutting back with it until it came to and moved. The poor mouse got spat out and the dog look horrified and let it go.

Please explain the big difference in your first sentence? Both are acting on instinct, so what's the big difference?

[Willem]

....Whoops. I totally didn't mean for this thread to go here. I dont condone the killing of any native animals and certainly dont support the inhumane dispatch of any pests either....

...can you enlighten me what - in your opinion - is a 'humane dispatch of pests'?...do you rate fighting pests like common myna birds, mice and rats in your garden / home via dogs and cats as 'inhumane'?

[Christina]

Whoops. I totally didn't mean for this thread to go here. I dont condone the killing of any native animals and certainly dont support the inhumane dispatch of any pests either.

I wasnt impressed with what he did, only his willingness to leave & recall.

Oh don't worry threads go all over the place where the poster didn't intend it to happen. Makes it interesting though :) The ethics of either animals or people killing animals or other people is totally variable according to the circumstances & peoples personal opinions & beliefs.

You have made it clear that you were only impressed by his recall anyone who read it properly would know that.

[Scottsmum]

....Whoops. I totally didn't mean for this thread to go here. I dont condone the killing of any native animals and certainly dont support the inhumane dispatch of any pests either....

...can you enlighten me what - in your opinion - is a 'humane dispatch of pests'?...do you rate fighting pests like common myna birds, mice and rats in your garden / home via dogs and cats as 'inhumane'?

I'm not going to argue with you Willem - I've seen you be argumentative for arguments sake on other threads and I'm too tired and stuffed up with a cold to bother with an ethics debate. I classify "inhumane death" as anything where an animal, native or not, suffers unnecessarily or the process is drawn out. End.

[BlaznHotAussies]

I'd think a dog catching rabbits and the odd bird (which I really think they'd struggle to do because even a terrier will struggle to sneak up on a bird - pretty sure most terriers were used for chasing things like rabbits & weasels?) is a lot different from what a feral or roaming cat will manage to pick up. Considering a cat can kill up to 30 creatures in a night (AWC stats).

And a cat will drag out a death, whereas dogs usually grab, shake, eat. Or if they're like my little cross mutt when I was a kid, they'll chase the rabbit but never catch them

I personally don't care about feral rabbits. They put their burrows everywhere, eat crops and spread disease - fleas, lice, etc. They're an introduced species and are a real pest so I have very little sympathy for them.

[Guest donatella]

But both are just doing what instincts tell them right?

[persephone]

Instinct is what makes predators kill - simple .

it is a natural behaviour .

Most people have forgotten that dogs/cats are PREDATORS .

It is up the human owners to manage situations as best they can if they do not want to see their pets kill things .

Cats and dogs need to have behaviour modified/controlled by keeping enclosed etc .

I applaud Scottie on his recall :) :) that is a great effort..and IS certainly to be proud of.

[LisaCC]

But both are just doing what instincts tell them right?

Both are instincts yes. But most people are responsible enough to keep their dogs in their yards, thus limiting the amount of wildlife their dogs can access. Hopefully if you are around to see your dog hunting a native bird in the back yard you would call it off.

Allowing your cat to roam the neighbourhood, especially at night increases the amount of wildlife they can catch and kill by a hell of a lot. Simply restricting them to the house and backyard enclosure reduces this.

Edited November 4, 2015 by LisaCC

[BlaznHotAussies]

Yep, just doing what their instinct tells them. Not sure of your point?

I got the impression higher up that there was concern about the fact that cats kill wildlife too. They kill a lot more than dogs, especially because a dog (if contained properly) will generally get whatever is in their yard and I know personally that nothing ever comes in my yard except bobtails and the dogs just bark and carry on about it. Cats, on the other hand, will take off to hunt and it's much harder to contain a cat because they're better at climbing and jumping than dogs (that's besides the freak of nature dogs that can clear 7' fences).

I forgot to say higher up - that's awesome about his recall, it's always good to have little 'tests' like that to let you know how your training is going

[Guest donatella]

I absolutely do not condone roaming cats but it's funny how people go 'oh mongrel cat got a bird, feral bloody things' to 'ohhh my big ruffy wuffy got a bird, naughty snookems'

Roaming cats will eat wildlife roaming dogs will eat cats. No pets should be roaming

[LisaCC]

If the dog caught the native bird while the dog was enclosed legally in it's backyard. Yep terribly sad for the native bird, but yep that's instinct, unfortunate.

If someone has allowed their cat out to roam and it's gone and hunted out in some park land, still instinct, but I'll freely admit I'm going to be more pissed at that.

If the cat was enclosed in it's backyard by a containment system like the dog and grabbed a bird then I wouldn't be pissed.

[Guest donatella]

Right, gotcha I agree

[HazyWal]

Maddie kills birds in the yard, even if I was out there with her I would have no chance of stopping her as she can cover the whole yard in a few strides. I saw her snap a Mynah bird mid flight out of a tree once, she has zero recall but even if she did I wouldn't have a chance of getting a word out.