South Australia Legislation Change Re Electronic Collars

[corvus]

OSo, your local snakes are WEIRD. I have never been rushed by a snake in all my years doing field work and actively looking for them. Bar messing with them or approaching a snake that's under attack from the local birds, they always escape if given the opportunity. They don't always leave, because sometimes they need to warm themselves and would REALLY rather not leave the sun. They are slow and vulnerable. So you go around. I was speaking to a snake catcher recently who deals with a lot of irritated snakes, and they said the same thing, which has also been echoed by several herpetologists and snake enthusiasts I have spoken to over the years that spend A LOT of time actively looking for and catching wild snakes. Sometimes they come towards you. They don't have great vision and if you are still, they may not be aware of you. Make a little noise and they go around. I would (and do) approach a startled snake for a closer look and have never considered it particularly dangerous. I've never had one mock strike at me or arc up. Sometimes they puff a little. Only time I've heard them hiss is if the local birds are attacking them or a dog is playing with them (yes, I have seen the latter, and the dog somehow did not get bitten - it was a very annoyed Tiger).

[corvus]

...area fenced with a fence that is higher than 1.5 m; inside the area is the snake (safely in a cage / box) in one corner, the dog is kept confined in a safe distance away from the snake by the invisible fence (wire in the ground) and the e-collar in the area that is left - approaching the wire / snake will trigger the e-collar.

according to the link this would be legal also in NSW and will work pretty similar - the difference is that the shock is not directly triggered by the trainer, but by the threshold for the distance. Obviously the trainer has a much better control if he/she can trigger the e-collar directly - but it is not legal in NSW, while the second best (?) approach seems to be legal.

Yeah, but for the association to be made, the snake has to be the salient stimulus. The more stimuli they are aware of when they get the shock, the weaker the association between snake and pain, and the more likely you will get other associations you don't want (e.g. fences and pain, sniffing the ground and pain, a car heard nearby and pain). What the guy in Perth is doing is probably THE most certain way to make sure the snake scent and the visual snake stimulus are the most salient at the time.

[huski]

I have another question for those knowledgeable about the use of e collars - do dogs generally "get used to" a certain level of the stimulation and stop responding to it, meaning you need to increase the level to get the response again?

A lady at the dog park near where I'm staying has one her dog and she said today that she's had to up the level of the shock (her term) as the dog had started ignoring the lower level she had been using.

Just bumping this question as I'd really like to know the answer.

I would suggest there are individual differences SG - the research is very sparse.

There are too many factors to take into account really. If he dog has a higher level of arousal their working level, that is the lowest perceivable level to the dog, may be higher. That would be the most common reason the dog would ignore the stim just like a dog too invested in distraction will ignore food rewards. the stim is typically used as a cue to the dog, in the teaching phase we would give the stim before the command so it isn't used as a correction for the wrong behavior. If someone is finding the need to amp up the collar to get the dog to comply because it's ignoring the working level that's handler error not a normal part of using the tool.

[OSoSwift]

Then they are weird.

I live with them every day. This os what they do here.

And yes I know it is the vibration. Tell a human to make noise and they stamp their feet and move around lots. I also know if there is too much coming from all directions a snake will sometimes appear to go straight at something when it is actually trying to get away but can't tell where that is.

[Animal House]

OSo, your local snakes are WEIRD. I have never been rushed by a snake in all my years doing field work and actively looking for them. Bar messing with them or approaching a snake that's under attack from the local birds, they always escape if given the opportunity. They don't always leave, because sometimes they need to warm themselves and would REALLY rather not leave the sun. They are slow and vulnerable. So you go around. I was speaking to a snake catcher recently who deals with a lot of irritated snakes, and they said the same thing, which has also been echoed by several herpetologists and snake enthusiasts I have spoken to over the years that spend A LOT of time actively looking for and catching wild snakes. Sometimes they come towards you. They don't have great vision and if you are still, they may not be aware of you. Make a little noise and they go around. I would (and do) approach a startled snake for a closer look and have never considered it particularly dangerous. I've never had one mock strike at me or arc up. Sometimes they puff a little. Only time I've heard them hiss is if the local birds are attacking them or a dog is playing with them (yes, I have seen the latter, and the dog somehow did not get bitten - it was a very annoyed Tiger).

You'd be the only person I know who hasn't had a snake strike at them who works in the field.

I own pythons, and they have struck at me when startled, albeit a display. Just yesterday I had one of mine outside and he was slithering off to a place I didn't want him to go, I walked over to grab him and he turned and put on an impressive display of striking with a mouth wide open. Little shit. :laugh:

[corvus]

Maybe what I think of as a mock strike is not what others consider one. Maybe what OSo considers a rush is not what others consider one. Who knows? I did have a small snake I almost trod on rear up one time, but I think it was just trying to change directions real fast. I look but don't touch! I had a rattlesnake do a lovely display for me in California before making off with a lot of noise. Doesn't seem to count, though. It was displaying before I even got close enough to locate it visually.

[OSoSwift]

When a snake has its head flattened lifted and coming straight at me with increased speed it is rushing me. I don't care for pedantics. I have been around this lot long enough to have a reasonable idea of their behavior