Clipping Double Coated Breeds

[aussielover]

Could anyone provide any scientific evidence why this is bad?

I understand that if they are clipped to short, they are prone to sunburn etc, but I am having trouble understanding the theory behind a double coat acting as "insulation" against the heat.

For example I don't feel cooler if I wear a thermal top under a light shirt on a hot day. Obviously, I feel warmer and would probably take off a layer.

Also, many double coated dogs aren't historically bred for hot humid aussie conditions.

I have had my lab clipped a few times (mainly when she's in a tick area), and feel that she is subjectively cooler without all the hair. But I don't know if I'll do it again this year as we won't really be in tick areas much this summer.

Thanks

[Willem]

conversely to humans, dogs can't control the body temperature by sweating through the skin...they only can do it by evaporating fluid over their mouth / tongue. Hence the coat becomes an insulation like the insulation for a fridge or your house to maintain the temperature inside their body. If it is 40 deg C outside a 'naked' dog would suffer much more and would likely overheat earlier than a dog with a healthy coat.

[Roova]

I've cheated and taken this from an article on grooming. I have a border terrier and its a big no no to clip. I've seen plenty of photos of borders clipped and stripped and the hair colour and texture seems significantly different. In saying that I'm sure there's plenty of pets quite happily getting clipped.

"Each hair follicle supports a single hard outer hair and several soft finer hairs that form the supportive undercoat. The characteristic rich color and hard texture is formed by the outer hairs. As these hairs grow out and become old, they become thin, soft and faded at the roots. More of the softer hairs push their way out of the hair follicle. The purpose of hand stripping is to remove the old faded hairs so that new growth can occur, and to muck out excess fuzzy undergrowth that may be jamming the hair follicle.

When the coat is not refreshed by stripping out the old, several things can happen: The coat can lose color and become faded, the ratio of fuzzy stuff to hard hair can be altered so that texture is lost, and the hair follicles can become plugged up with fine hairs and oily sebum. This can lead to skin problems, such as the pimples or "acne" that is sometimes found on Miniature Schnauzers. If the hair is clipped or cut rather than pulled out, the growth of harsh new coat is inhibited, and the entire coat can become faded and soft. In some breeds, such as Airedales, the once black jacket becomes grizzled colored or greyish, the red brown becomes light brown and the leg furnishings become straw colored".

Edited October 22, 2015 by Roova

[DeltaCharlie]

[Guest donatella]

I get Lucy clipped in the hotter qld months and she is 100% a happier bouncier dog. her coat grows back without issue. She gets a really big coat and I can tell she prefers her clipped state (looks cuter too)

[aussielover]

She does look adorable clipped.

Thanks for the explanation and diagrams. My dog always has a thick undercoat- I can use the furminator for ages and have a garbage bag full of hair and still more comes out!

I think that may be why she does better clipped. I think her thick undercoat limits the effectiveness of cool coats and swimming because wAter rarely makes it through to her skin. Great if you are a Lab Canada or UK expected to retrieve from freezing rivers!

[maddogdodge]

It all depends on if the coat is brushed regularly and maintained so it can breathe! My Aussie Shepherd has a very thick coat, but I brush and blow out all the undercoat regularly - He does brilliantly in 30-40 degree heat.

At this time of year I end up clipping heaps of double coated dogs (I'm a dog groomer). I always explain to the owners the risk vs benefits of it and let them chose. There are plenty of thick coated dogs that I brush and blow out their coat regularly and they do just fine in summer... Dogs like Rough Collie, Border Collie, Golden Retriever, pomeranian etc etc

I've found with most dogs, once you start clipping them, it becomes something that has to be done on a regular basis because the coat just becomes a wreck afterwards! The hair is brittle and faded, not to mention that the top coat tends to not grow back well at all, and the thick fuzzy undercoat grows back in excessive amounts. So the dog is left with a thick coat that offers no protection from the weather. I did a border collie a couple of weeks ago... he wasn't matted but his coat was in such horrible condition from constant clipping that I had to shave him to the skin.

You couldn't pay me to clip my double coated dogs!

[Willem]

...I think that may be why she does better clipped. ....

...maybe not if the clipping is too short, My link ...IMO assisting the normal shedding with a good deshedding tool is all what's needed and best for the dog's health. Might be different for breeds that have a fur that is bred more for fashion than for function.

[Willem]

It all depends on if the coat is brushed regularly and maintained so it can breathe! My Aussie Shepherd has a very thick coat, but I brush and blow out all the undercoat regularly - He does brilliantly in 30-40 degree heat.

At this time of year I end up clipping heaps of double coated dogs (I'm a dog groomer). I always explain to the owners the risk vs benefits of it and let them chose. There are plenty of thick coated dogs that I brush and blow out their coat regularly and they do just fine in summer... Dogs like Rough Collie, Border Collie, Golden Retriever, pomeranian etc etc

I've found with most dogs, once you start clipping them, it becomes something that has to be done on a regular basis because the coat just becomes a wreck afterwards! The hair is brittle and faded, not to mention that the top coat tends to not grow back well at all, and the thick fuzzy undercoat grows back in excessive amounts. So the dog is left with a thick coat that offers no protection from the weather. I did a border collie a couple of weeks ago... he wasn't matted but his coat was in such horrible condition from constant clipping that I had to shave him to the skin.

You couldn't pay me to clip my double coated dogs!

[Monchichi]

It all depends on if the coat is brushed regularly and maintained so it can breathe! My Aussie Shepherd has a very thick coat, but I brush and blow out all the undercoat regularly - He does brilliantly in 30-40 degree heat.

At this time of year I end up clipping heaps of double coated dogs (I'm a dog groomer). I always explain to the owners the risk vs benefits of it and let them chose. There are plenty of thick coated dogs that I brush and blow out their coat regularly and they do just fine in summer... Dogs like Rough Collie, Border Collie, Golden Retriever, pomeranian etc etc

I've found with most dogs, once you start clipping them, it becomes something that has to be done on a regular basis because the coat just becomes a wreck afterwards! The hair is brittle and faded, not to mention that the top coat tends to not grow back well at all, and the thick fuzzy undercoat grows back in excessive amounts. So the dog is left with a thick coat that offers no protection from the weather. I did a border collie a couple of weeks ago... he wasn't matted but his coat was in such horrible condition from constant clipping that I had to shave him to the skin.

You couldn't pay me to clip my double coated dogs!

that in bold...I totally agree! probably one clipped, the coat will still grow nicely..but not as nice as the original. Then with so many clipped..the coat is ruined and hence the skin conditions exist. I saw so many of my breeds, get clipped and the coats grow as mentioned above, thick fuzzy undercoat. simple example, shaving hair of our body parts, the one that grows after that will be in thick form and ugly.

[espinay2]

Google 'post clipping alopecia'. Is a pretty common problem with dogs that are clipped. May not happen the first few times they are clipped, but common enough in double coated breeds in particular that it has a name.

Here is a good article on hair length and temperature tolerance that provides a scientific explanation of that aspect: http://www.lgd.org/l.../hairlength.htm

Some useful posters that show things such as the difference in temperature measurements:

Edited October 23, 2015 by espinay2

[Dogsfevr]

The charts & science is only as good as the owners & the effort they wish to put in .

As a groomer most owners are simply to lazy to put any effort in,there dogs aren't trained to be brushed,they don't brush them often enough hence the coat builds up & bathing them is all to hard ,

Many of the breeds that people want clipped off would take 5 mins to brush properly but that is all to much effort .

We clip them off because in the end its better for the dog to be comfy from bad owners & many just come in in such a mess that we would never put a dog through the pain to brush out plus of course the nasty dogs that weren't trained as puppies so grooming time is just to traumatic which is very distressing to see as a groomer & a dog lover .

We have heard every excuse known to man kind as to why people can't brush there one dog despite being shown how to do it,the tools to buy & god forbid committing themselves to a few sessions each week because it isn't rocket science to realize doing it more often weekly makes it easier .

What i find astounding is how many owners don't want this special time to enjoy each other ,brushing any dog long or short is such a special time together plus checking the dog for lumps & bumps.

I can't tell you how many cancers we have picked up over the years because of owners who never brush there dogs so rarely touch there dogs either .

[seregil]

I have always owned rough collies and the ol' "never shave a double coat/the double coat keeps them cool" debate comes up all the time ......

I have yet to read an article (including all the ones above) that convinces me that a long double coat "insulates" the dog in summer. These breeds were bred for cold snowy countries. While dogs do not sweat through their skin to cool themselves, heat still radiates off the skin to some degee. A thick layer of undercoat must inhibit this process to some extent. Ask anyone who has both rough and smooth collies which one tolerates hot weather the best, do you think it would be the rough ???? don't think so.....

That being said, keeping double coated breeds thoroughly groomed plays a BIG part in helping them cope with hot weather. I never clip my collies, however they are constantly groomed out, bathed and blown out regularly. Many years ago I did clip one of my very old collies who struggled with the heat, there was NO QUESTION he was way cooler after clipping!

I agree there does seem to be some problems with coats not regrowing properly (or not at all) in some breeds. I wonder if this is partly because once an owner has had the dog clipped they do not follow up with any grooming as "they don't need to" as the coat tries to regrow. Hairs are still going through the growing then shedding cycle whether they are cut or not. Dead/shed undercoat then just builds up again. Also, guard hairs are much longer than undercoat hairs so will take considerably longer to regrow so you get that thick fluffy look before the top coat is through.

One thing is for sure, I would rather see a double coated dog clipped off than see one that is NEVER groomed and is carrying around all of last year's dead undercoat, matted to the heavens, full of burrs and grass seeds, I see it pretty regularly at work sadly as a Vet nurse.

Well that's my take on this debate anyway :)

[Willem]

I have always owned rough collies and the ol' "never shave a double coat/the double coat keeps them cool" debate comes up all the time ......

I have yet to read an article (including all the ones above) that convinces me that a long double coat "insulates" the dog in summer. These breeds were bred for cold snowy countries. While dogs do not sweat through their skin to cool themselves, heat still radiates off the skin to some degee. A thick layer of undercoat must inhibit this process to some extent. Ask anyone who has both rough and smooth collies which one tolerates hot weather the best, do you think it would be the rough ???? don't think so.....

That being said, keeping double coated breeds thoroughly groomed plays a BIG part in helping them cope with hot weather. I never clip my collies, however they are constantly groomed out, bathed and blown out regularly. Many years ago I did clip one of my very old collies who struggled with the heat, there was NO QUESTION he was way cooler after clipping!

I agree there does seem to be some problems with coats not regrowing properly (or not at all) in some breeds. I wonder if this is partly because once an owner has had the dog clipped they do not follow up with any grooming as "they don't need to" as the coat tries to regrow. Hairs are still going through the growing then shedding cycle whether they are cut or not. Dead/shed undercoat then just builds up again. Also, guard hairs are much longer than undercoat hairs so will take considerably longer to regrow so you get that thick fluffy look before the top coat is through.

One thing is for sure, I would rather see a double coated dog clipped off than see one that is NEVER groomed and is carrying around all of last year's dead undercoat, matted to the heavens, full of burrs and grass seeds, I see it pretty regularly at work sadly as a Vet nurse.

Well that's my take on this debate anyway :)

...I guess you also believe then that your electricity bill for your aircon is lower if the house has poor insulation? :D ...because without insulation it is much cooler in summer?...take the fridge as an example: the dogs tongue is the radiator, the lounges the compressor, the dog's body the fridge - to keep everything cooler inside, the fridge needs a good insulation otherwise the compressor will be worn out very soon...or take your car as an example: all the cars have pretty poor insulation, that's why they get incredible hot inside in summer - same happens with a dog if you take their insulation away.

[RuralPug]

espinay and DeltaCharlie thank you so much for those images - I have stored them and will be using them the next time there is an argument.

Pugs are a double coated SHORT coated breed and sometimes owners shave them claiming they are cooler (sigh) when the real reason is that owners simply can't be bothered removing dead undercoat and they think that shaving will limit shedding (it doesn't, the shed hairs are just shorter, itchier and spikier LOL).

[Dame Aussie]

Personally I'd never clip a double coated dog. Both our guys have double coats and do fine in summer as they're brushed regularly.

I do agree that its better to be clipped than a matted mess though. I also think Poms look adorable clipped. My Dad used to clip his and she looked like a mini dingo

Edited October 23, 2015 by Dame Aussie

[RiverStar-Aura]

I have a double coated beagle cross who's undercoat is very soft/fluffy/downy and a kinda harsh top coat that sheds like a b****. I would never have him clipped but then I actually LOVE brushing and preening my dogs; I find it to be very relaxing and a nice calming, bonding session with him.

My Aussie Terrier has a typical wire coat that requires hand stripping and again, I'd NEVER have her clipped. Kirah loves a fuss being made over her and hand stripping is a part of this particular breed's maintenance. If you can't be bothered to take the time to care for a coat properly then perhaps certain breeds aren't the right choice for some people. To me it'd be a bit like saying that I can't be bothered to shower so I'll just stay smelly my entire life.

[Guest donatella]

.edited not biting to the above

Edited October 23, 2015 by donatella

[JulesP]

I think the effect on coats is one of the problems with desexing. Amber is dropping her coat and it is alllll coming out. She will have about half the amount of coat in summer. Poppy's really doesn't come out and she is already feeling hot. Hadn't really thought about it before as I haven't had 2 girls before with one not being desexed. Amber's coat is heaps easier to deal with.

All the double coated dogs I used to groom that had clipped coats had horrible coats. But yeah I think they were all owned by very slack owners that just got them clipped off and never brushed them the rest of the time. Maybe if you groomed them like Don does the coat would grow back nicely. I hated clipping the double coated breeds and it wrecked my clippers.

[sandgrubber]

Could anyone provide any scientific evidence why this is bad?

I understand that if they are clipped to short, they are prone to sunburn etc, but I am having trouble understanding the theory behind a double coat acting as "insulation" against the heat.

For example I don't feel cooler if I wear a thermal top under a light shirt on a hot day. Obviously, I feel warmer and would probably take off a layer.

Also, many double coated dogs aren't historically bred for hot humid aussie conditions.

I have had my lab clipped a few times (mainly when she's in a tick area), and feel that she is subjectively cooler without all the hair. But I don't know if I'll do it again this year as we won't really be in tick areas much this summer.

Thanks

The physics is absolutely clear. Unless the air temperature is higher than your dog's body temperature, clipping will cool the dog. Where outside is cooler than inside, insulation keeps heat in. The double coat is like a good jumper or a blanket. Clipping removes the insulation and allows body heat to escape.

If you want to win shows . . . clipping may be bad. A think coat provides some protection against scratches and mozzies, and may allow a wet dog to enjoy evaporative cooling for longer (like a wet sweater). But if it's not a century day, dogs are warmer than air temperature. Clipping and undercoat stripping make it easier to shed body heat.

Edited October 23, 2015 by sandgrubber