Roova Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I try to not anthropomorphise my dogs behaviour but I've wondered for a while can they make deliberate decision to be 'naughty' or are they just opportunistic? Three examples Ive been wondering about... I was eating something on the couch and got up to do something so popped the food down on the seat and walked away. My partner said the moment I left the room Poppy (12 month Border Terrier) was feet up on the side of the couch about to eat the food! Whilst I was sitting there she was lying at my feet seemingly oblivious to me eating something. Also in an attempt to wrestle back free for all access in the house, she hasn't been allowed down our hall which leads to bedrooms for maybe six months (unless invited). When I have a shower she clearly goes in the room and drags things of mine out of the ensuite to her 'waiting' spot at the beginning of the hall. Clothing, a slipper etc. I come out of my room and there she is innocently sitting or sleeping on her mat with clothing strewn about her lol. I've never actually caught her in the act of being in the room or selecting what item to drag out lol. Lastly she sometimes sneaks in one of our spare rooms (also in the out of bounds area) and brings out a small cactusy plant I have and pulls it apart in the lounge. I can put it back together because she doesn't chew it but she seems determined to get it when she can. She would never go in the room if I was in there, its always if I'm preoccupied or if I've left the door open when Im out. I don't growl at her when I find it because its my own fault for leaving the door open, but why? She always stops and sits on her mat if we're in that part of the house so she 'appears' to know she can't go beyond that point and down the hall. So, is she being naughty, a typical teenage dog picking her moment to 'rebel', opportunistic or none of the above? I should mention she is normally very obedient and easy going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Do dogs do things they know you don't want them doing? Absolutely!!! Their opportunity is our view of naughtiness - one and the same thing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 they see a chance - so take it . :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I was doing some training with Nitro - drop on a mat and go from the crate to the mat. At the end of the session, he grabbed the mat and did zoomies with it around the yard :laugh: cheeky little bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) If I'm doing something and Quinn is bored and wants my attention she goes over to the bookshelf where the DVDs are, pulls one out and throws it on the ground then looks at me, and repeats until I come and put them all back :laugh: I want to ignore her naughtiness but she starts chewing if I don't put the DVDs back so she wins! I think it depends on the dog whether they have the inclination to be naughty, my other two don't seem to do things like that. Edited October 22, 2015 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Do dogs do things they know you don't want them doing? Absolutely!!! Their opportunity is our view of naughtiness - one and the same thing to me. Yep agree. If I leave food in their reach, they'll eat it! They know I don't want them to but they don't care :laugh: Pulling apart cactuses is fun! Edited October 22, 2015 by Dame Aussie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-o Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 100% my dog knows exactly when he's done something he knows is wrong. I know by his behaviour he's done something naughty before I find out what he's done. He'll walk to the back door in anticipation that he's about to be told off and sent outside to think about his actions. It's startling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Mine do. I watch mine look both ways before jumping over the lounge onto the table to suss out my finished dinner plate. As soon as I come in the room the jump down immediately, they know it's a naughty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denali Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Kokoda definitely does. And half the time you can see when he makes his his decision to be naughty too :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I've argued with professional dog trainers about this... What's the difference between a dog being a great actor eg to get off lead - she play bows at the nearest dog - who if get a return play bow, I (used to) let her off lead to go play. But she goes sniffing / foraging in the playground (lots of food). So I don't let her off near the playground any more. At least I get punished by her hoovering any time I do. The other day she found a whole frankfurt sausage in there. And do you think she was going to give it up to me - not a chance. Doesn't matter if I've got something better on offer like roast chicken, fresh cooked steak, roo jerky... And the look she gives me when she decides she's going hoovering... She checks, gives me a big smile and nicks off with a very special kind of bouncy I dare you to chase me run. FFS. She's definitely an opportunist. Sometimes she knows what I want - you can see her thinking about it. If I had Classic conditioned recall... I'd be ok. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Stan waits until I go out then he runs amok. I know as soon as I pull in the driveway and don't see two faces at the window that he's trashed something. He also gives himself up by hiding in my bed, usually with his back to the door like it will all go away O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Pickles is naughty... not just opportunistic... seriously naughty! And I wouldn't have it any other way really... lol! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Same thing I think ;) Had her on her bed while I eat dinner in peace like I do every night, but for some reason the rules don't apply when guests are over ;) I'd sit down and she'd immediately be moving the minute I was looking at my plate. Seems to think she won't be told off just cause guests are around! Nope! Started whining and throwing her toys around but still on her bed, silly duffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Nope. Dogs do what is rewarding, plain and simple. If they know they can access the rewarding thing when you're out of the room they will wait. They DO NOT know what they've done wrong. What you are seeing is appeasement (and sometimes fear) - they associate the dug hole or wrecked rubbish bin with you being cranky. They don't comprehend that THEY are responsible. Understanding this makes dog training much, much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Nope. Dogs do what is rewarding, plain and simple. If they know they can access the rewarding thing when you're out of the room they will wait. They DO NOT know what they've done wrong. What you are seeing is appeasement (and sometimes fear) - they associate the dug hole or wrecked rubbish bin with you being cranky. They don't comprehend that THEY are responsible. Understanding this makes dog training much, much easier. Agree with above to a degree. Naughty is a human thing. Dogs are just dogs & don't understand it in the same way. They only really obey when you are there unless they have had some horrid aversion therapy. Sometimes seems to us that they are naughty though with some of the things they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaznHotAussies Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't even know. After the massive lack of sleep last night on an already unpleasantly warm night, where the dogs' bedroom door got blown open (we had windows open & the pressure changes along with the door that doesn't actually latch properly, yay) letting them trot about the house dropping bits of bones on the wooden floors & making their loud way into our bedroom (doors generally stay open considering the lack of doors that shut properly). THEN my lovely husband put them outside (and fair enough, to let them wear off some energy or get a drink or go to the toilet or whatever)...to which Tundra thanked him by barking at 3am. Which got both dogs put back inside and growled at for not going straight to sleep. Interestingly enough every time Tundra hears the stompy steps (grumpy human at 3am who is super super tired & desperate for sleep) down the hallway he drops (because that's the main trick I've taught him, so slack ) and acts like the perfectly behaved little student. Gaaah. Generally they're ok. I think it was just the windy, hot night last night that made it hard to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I agree that dogs don't think and feel the same way as human beings (it's impossible). But sometimes it seems they know they have done something that will displease us humans and they also seem to know in a multi human house which human is going to be the least pleased. And if they don't know right from wrong then why do they do their naughty stuff when we aren't watching? Surely if they really didn't care they'd do it right in front of us? I can go and have a shower and come back to find my doona and pillows eaten. Just my doona or pillows - none on the other beds or the pillows on the lounge. And the culprit will just lie at the other end of the bed, trying to distance herself from the carnage like she never even noticed what happened. If she didn't care wouldn't she still be ripping it apart when I walked into the room again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Id like to think there is some reasoning going on in their heads, although it's hard to tell what is hard wired and what they have learnt by rote. Last night I watched Poppy and Maggie have a mad play session where Poppy ended up running in to my room at one point (out of bounds) and then back out again while Maggie stood at the doorway waiting for her. They both 'know' the rules but Maggie who is quite submissive followed them. Doesnt that show some type of reasoning or decision making to avoid getting in trouble which she hates? Why would one have done it when she could get away with it but not the other? Edited October 22, 2015 by Roova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't think dogs can be naughty. When I look at Willow's 'naughty' behaviour all I see is a bor d dog who had found something rewarding. Or a dog that had learnt to up the ante to achieve a desired outcome. Some of that can look like naughty behaviour, it can certainly be very annoying and inconvenient. We've not consciously punished her. We just put stuff out of the way, put appropriate stuff in the way or redirected the behaviour. I love watching her problem solving and her efforts to manipulate her environment. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Nope. Dogs do what is rewarding, plain and simple. If they know they can access the rewarding thing when you're out of the room they will wait. They DO NOT know what they've done wrong. What you are seeing is appeasement (and sometimes fear) - they associate the dug hole or wrecked rubbish bin with you being cranky. They don't comprehend that THEY are responsible. Understanding this makes dog training much, much easier. This Not sure it applies to cats though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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