Panlu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Yes, that's exactly how I'm looking at it Florise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I am describing the situation not to seek support for my feelings, I don't need the support of strangers online. The whole breeders terms thing is a scam that I will put up with once, to fulfill my contractual obligation, nothing more. I don't understand why you would be expected to pay full price if she is on breeders terms. Be thankful it is only one litter and I hope it all goes smoothly for her. As for the tent offer.. But what sort of full price is it? Is it full price for "companion puppy" - realistically if you were to buy an adult dog of breeding quality it is likely you would pay much more than $3000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Whats happening here is that you have gotten into a place where you are not happy with how things are and you are thinking through everything that might support your feelings. Just as we do when a marriage breaks up - you drag up things that you didnt think much of or gave the benefit of the doubt about to justify the feelings and circumstances. I would imagine that the breeder has offered for you to stay to allow you to go through the experience and care for the bitch because she understands you love her and are concerned about her .Believe me the breeder isn't offering for you to stay to "help" her because having the owner under her feet while she is doing what needs to be done is harder for her than being able to be left to get the job done. All of the things that go into having relative strangers camping in a tent using her facilities, being sociable to and probably feeding is an extra burden on the breeder . You have decided to see this as a negative to back up how you are feeling - at this point unless you stop and take a step back doesn't no matter what the breeder says or does you will see that as evidence she is horrible. You think its a slack breeder trying to get out of work so she will let you camp there for free labour as well as everything else you see she gets from the deal and I see it that she is being considerate to your feelings and has offered to allow you to stay if you want to. Did you really agree to buy the pup without being told what the price was before the invoice was issued. Not many breeders would keep the price secret until after the agreement was made to sell the pup to you and only tell you how much it was via invoice. More likely You knew it was a mistake at the time and what the breeder had told you the cost of the pup was prior to issue of the invoice. It didnt bother you at the time and you agreed to pay - and did pay the higher price so its another one of those things that you can say you were cheated on to back up how you feel about the situation now. The breeder gets to make decisions on when to take puppies off mum based on numerous things including breed characteristics and what other dogs she may have there which can socialise with the puppies etc. You were also well aware of his when you made the agreement as you have said the pup's mum was treated the same and you didn't see anything wrong with a pup being taken from its Mum at 4 weeks -if you thought it was detrimental to the pup again you wouldn't have bought it. The breeder has given you a pup which she wanted to breed with and entrusted its care and welfare to you so that when the time comes to have puppies the bitch is well cared for and in good condition. You determined that you wanted the pup and were prepared to accept the conditions that the breeder placed because at the time you were happy to comply with . She took more risk placing the pup with you than she would have if she had kept the dog on her property in control of all the variables that will impact on her when she whelps and not to have to worry about you being horrible when the time came for you to pay up. You can either keep finding things to be ticked off about and justify why the breeder sucks or give her the benefit of the doubt,assume she is trying to do the right thing by the dog, you and the breed and enjoy the whole thing and see it as something that is awesome for you and your girl to experience. Well said Steve. Added, almost every negative point that Panlu makes regarding her agreed breeders terms is related to money. Breeders terms are not for everyone, granted. But I find it distasteful and unfair to the breeder that a person happily takes up the offer and then bad mouths them later down the track. Panlu has no idea of the costs and work involved in raising a litter of puppies and clearly thinks the breeders is making a killing off her. Agreed and I am certain when the breeder reads this thread which is sure to have been sent by several members, there will be some interesting discussions going forward! The dog world is a small world and nothing is sacred. Edited November 9, 2015 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panlu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 That argument would only be valid if there was breeding value from the dog for me. There isn't. I paid full price for a companion puppy, except she came with additional value for the breeder. Maximised through me raising it for her to profit from. And before anyone jumps on this reply to suggest that I am after a cut of the profit - I would gladly PAY a lot of money to prevent her from being bred from, and if I am financially able by the time she is old enough to be bred from, I may suggest this to the breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panlu Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Since I am now being threatened with this post being sent to the breeder, I have edited out all potentially identifying information, so I hope anyone who feels the need to pass this on has made screenshots of my previous replies. It is not my intention to start a war with her, as previously stated I intend to fulfil my side of this dubious agreement and get on with enjoying my companion dog. I am completely shocked at the venom coming from some of you at the very suggestion that someone isn't happy with breeders terms. You are right that it's a small world - its a clique. My biggest mistake was to fall in love with a particular breed. What I really should have done is adopted through one of the many rescue groups. Thank you all insightful, righteous breeders who have replied, for the valuable lessons learned, I am forever in your debt. Maybe I can repay it someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Oh my god....seriously, cut the passive aggressive, spoilt brat shit and actually look at what people are telling you. No one has an issue with the fact that you don't like breeders terms LOADS of others don't like it, but they did the intelligent thing and refused breeders terms when buying a pup. You however didn't want to wait and took a deal you aren't happy with and now your bitching and moaning about it, claiming the breeder has somehow done you wrong, when in fact it's the other way around. Grow up, accept responsibility gracefully, like a damn adult, quit your bitching and GET OVER IT!!! You and others like you are why I quit breeding. The stress is just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Since I am now being threatened with this post being sent to the breeder, I have edited out all potentially identifying information, so I hope anyone who feels the need to pass this on has made screenshots of my previous replies. It is not my intention to start a war with her, as previously stated I intend to fulfil my side of this dubious agreement and get on with enjoying my companion dog. I am completely shocked at the venom coming from some of you at the very suggestion that someone isn't happy with breeders terms. You are right that it's a small world - its a clique. My biggest mistake was to fall in love with a particular breed. What I really should have done is adopted through one of the many rescue groups. Thank you all insightful, righteous breeders who have replied, for the valuable lessons learned, I am forever in your debt. Maybe I can repay it someday. Just as we are shocked by your own venom towards your breeder and 'her' terms... You're own feelings are just a reminder to many breeders why it's often not worth the hassel to place a quality puppy on breeders terms. So much blood, sweat and tears and the potential for a future generation to be lost or as is in this case, too much "drama" from an owner who agreed to terms that it's often easier to walk away and not ask for what they had agreed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Oh my god....seriously, cut the passive aggressive, spoilt brat shit and actually look at what people are telling you. No one has an issue with the fact that you don't like breeders terms LOADS of others don't like it, but they did the intelligent thing and refused breeders terms when buying a pup. You however didn't want to wait and took a deal you aren't happy with and now your bitching and moaning about it, claiming the breeder has somehow done you wrong, when in fact it's the other way around. Grow up, accept responsibility gracefully, like a damn adult, quit your bitching and GET OVER IT!!! You and others like you are why I quit breeding. The stress is just not worth it. :thumbsup: The only thing I would alter is this sentence of yours You however didn't want to wait and took a deal you NOW aren't happy with and now your bitching and moaning about it, claiming the breeder has somehow done you wrong, when in fact it's the other way around. They were happy enough to accept things in the beginning. I've had a bitch on breeders terms before. The deal was 3 litters! As it turned out bitch never did have a litter. But I was happy to get a good quality bitch when I otherwise couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I believe the guide dogs take back their bitches for around 8 weeks, 2 weeks before whelp until pups are 6 weeks old. And for mutiple litters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I am describing the situation not to seek support for my feelings, I don't need the support of strangers online. The whole breeders terms thing is a scam that I will put up with once, to fulfill my contractual obligation, nothing more. I don't understand why you would be expected to pay full price if she is on breeders terms. Be thankful it is only one litter and I hope it all goes smoothly for her. As for the tent offer.. But what sort of full price is it? Is it full price for "companion puppy" - realistically if you were to buy an adult dog of breeding quality it is likely you would pay much more than $3000! Seriously? How much more then? You guys need to try a little objectivity. My breeders terms I paid nothing and the bitch went back for two litters. I paid for desexing and that was it. Edited November 9, 2015 by Florise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Panlu, can I suggest that you get this thread deleted. It may be better for you to simply contact the breeder and have a conversation laying out your concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I am completely shocked at the venom coming from some of you at the very suggestion that someone isn't happy with breeders terms. You are right that it's a small world - its a clique. My biggest mistake was to fall in love with a particular breed. What I really should have done is adopted through one of the many rescue groups. Thank you all insightful, righteous breeders who have replied, for the valuable lessons learned, I am forever in your debt. Maybe I can repay it someday. I'm disappointed that posts from "some" people have produced that reaction. Your biggest mistake was NOT to fall in love with a breed. It was to accept a very one sided set of terms for a breeders agreement. Traditonally "breeders terms" are far more equitable than those you agreed to. It was a poor decision. You regret it. I get that. You took the "right now" option, as do so many folk. If that drives you out of purebred dogs and into rescue that's your call. But don't blame all breeders for your choice. And please don't blame all rescuers if you end up with a dog that's not your ideal. If that's how you really feel, return the dog and get a rescue dog now. Threads like this are precisely why I'd advise against any pet owner taking a dog on breeders terms. Edited November 10, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) That argument would only be valid if there was breeding value from the dog for me. There isn't. I paid full price for a companion puppy, except she came with additional value for the breeder. Maximised through me raising it for her to profit from. And before anyone jumps on this reply to suggest that I am after a cut of the profit - I would gladly PAY a lot of money to prevent her from being bred from, and if I am financially able by the time she is old enough to be bred from, I may suggest this to the breeder. Again, you have validate my point about your negativity towards your contractual obligations being largely driven by financial reasons. Again and again your bitterness seems to be evolved around what you seem to believe is your breeder making money from you. If I was your breeder, I would be bitterly disappointed that you felt this way after I trusted you. I would be shocked you were not forthcoming with your thoughts and expressions of dismay that you were spreading around. I would be handing your money back and requesting my years of hard earned love, dedication and knowledge back. I pray my screening weeds out owners like you. Fickle and backstabbing. Edited November 10, 2015 by Starkehre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 When it comes to rare breeds you need to understand the lengths some of these breeders go to in order to keep the companion pet available in this country. Like others have mentioned the breeder would have likely imported semen because there's not enough genetic diversity in Australia, not to mention the cost of c-section and caring for a litter and finding appropriate homes. My next dog will be a rare breed and I'm committed to contributing to the breeders program in anyway that I can, whether it be gaining a title or breeding from my dog. I know you want the best for your dog but consider that your contribution is helping to keep this breed available to the average pet owner for generations to come. Not sure what price you can put on that considering the amount of purebreeds that are dwindling in numbers both here and overseas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I am describing the situation not to seek support for my feelings, I don't need the support of strangers online. The whole breeders terms thing is a scam that I will put up with once, to fulfill my contractual obligation, nothing more. I don't understand why you would be expected to pay full price if she is on breeders terms. Be thankful it is only one litter and I hope it all goes smoothly for her. As for the tent offer.. Breeding dogs without terms for this breed and several others is !0 to 15 thousand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I feel sorry for the breeder of Panlu's bitch because I can understand completely why she's so strict with her terms. I'd hate for this breed (whichever it is) to become yet another over farmed breed and my guess is that she doesn't want to see this happen either. I suspect "rare" breeds (however people wish to define this) would be seen as a huge potential for money making. We only need look at the so-called "rare blue staffies". I'm a bit the same about my chosen breed the Aussie Terrier. Whilst not rare they are quite uncommon and although I wish every family has one because I think they're amazing, I don't want them to turn into another dog du jour to be pumping out puppies left, right and centre. Janlu, could you perhaps talk to your breeder and let her know that you're a bit unsure about where you stand? Open a dialogue with her and she might be able to offer something in return that you'd be happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I am completely shocked at the venom coming from some of you at the very suggestion that someone isn't happy with breeders terms. You are right that it's a small world - its a clique. My biggest mistake was to fall in love with a particular breed. What I really should have done is adopted through one of the many rescue groups. Thank you all insightful, righteous breeders who have replied, for the valuable lessons learned, I am forever in your debt. Maybe I can repay it someday. With the sought after, more expensive breeds I have seen things work well where people have been prepared to purchase a desexed adult at the end of its show or breeding career. A co-worker's daughter got her much loved Bulldog that way. Purchased outright, hers for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I just hope the bitch is at least judged as being suitable to better the breed and not just used when she's ready because she's female? Even being rare breed I thought most registered breeders showed their dogs against their peers before breeding? (Although I don't think anything has been stated to say the breeder is registered or the pup was sold on mains so maybe not)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I just hope the bitch is at least judged as being suitable to better the breed and not just used when she's ready because she's female? Even being rare breed I thought most registered breeders showed their dogs against their peers before breeding? (Although I don't think anything has been stated to say the breeder is registered or the pup was sold on mains so maybe not)? Depends on a heap of things including what the breeder is selecting for and how small the gene pool is - you dont have to show a bitch to know that she will bring something you want to your breeding program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) You know I have to say that its bloody hard to please all of the people all of the time. You cant hope to make much of a dent in helping to improve a breed with only one or two dogs and a couple of litters now and then - unless there are hundreds of breeders all working together. Chances of that in a rare breed or more than a handful of any breed these days is remote, We don't want them kept in numbers at the breeders property because good grief "look how many dogs they have they must be puppy farming" but there is also those who want to beat up those who choose breeders terms in order to be able to do the right thing by the breed. If it were the breeder speaking of breaching the terms they had agreed to it would be a blood bath. Edited November 10, 2015 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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