alpha bet Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 On the subject of pricing of a pup.... I use the formula that my initial breeder mentor gave me.... Charge the price for a pup of one weeks wages of an average middle class family - which is one full time wage and one part time (e.g. a teacher/police etc earn around the $65,000).... this currently works out at $85-95,000 thus around the $1,600 or so. The reasoning for this is that it is a big enough price for people to stop and consider whether they are serious about getting a dog but not out of the price for the average family. also the cost of buying a pup would be about the same price as the upkeep of the dog for the first year. Works for me and have used this system for the last 20 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) No offence to the OP (heaven knows so many ask this question) but the more I think about this issue generally, the more annoyed I get. If you want "just a dog" and don't want to pay a fair price for a well bred, well raised animal, then there are plenty of "just a breeders" out there willing to supply you. Of course, if you happen to have issues with puppy raising, or further questions about the breed guess who'll be answering them in places like here.. those responsible breeders being sniped at for charging a decent price for their efforts. And of course if it all goes south and puppy needs a new home, guess which breeders line up to provide breed rescue?? And guess who put their hands in their pockets to do it? Not the Gumtree brigade, that's for sure. I agree with this. I do wonder then why Pedigree dogs are marketed on the basis of simply having a pedigree- Or record, Instead of marketing the responsibilities and dedication outlined above. Using the pedigree system gives an obvious advantage to responsible breeding, when its seen as a demonstrated RESULT of responsible breeding. Not the cause, as the message suggests. One that can clearly be seen as false and not to be trusted. The record does not make the dog. Better practices do. Better practices make a pedigree, not the other way around. Yet thats the message that is being sent. It will be mistrusted because it is so often demonstrably untrue, and will continue to attract breeders who believe it so continue to show that. The record is favored before practices in the wording of the rules and constitution, while their practices are unrecognised by any means other than that record.. Edited October 21, 2015 by moosmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poocow Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Whats a profit I certainly don't have anything in surplus thats for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 When I look at the long list of what the good, ethical breeders of purebreds bring to producing the dogs they do, the last thing I'd begrudge them is putting a decent- sized price on what they charge for their puppies & dogs. A significant number of these breeders could be described as top professionals in the breeding/raising & management of dogs. Fuelled by the fact they love the dogs and are generous in sharing their expertise & knowledge with those who buy from them. We've always got adult purebreds from breeders like this ... & I've actually insisted on giving them more than what they asked. Why? You should see those little dogs, so beautifully socialized, lovely to look at and healthy as tiny horses. Regularly, we get congratulated by people for 'bringing up' such lovely natured, sensible little dogs .... & we always tell the truth, 'They came like that from their registered breeder.' So no surprise, I don't begrudge what such a breeder would charge .... & in fact, the quality of what they've done has sometimes meant we've insisted the breeder takes more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'd love to have made a profit or even come close to breaking even, bred my first litter and the below is just the basic bigger expenses so far just relating to this breeding and not the thousands I've spent trialling and health testing my bitch to prove she should be bred and they are only 2 weeks old. Collection and shipment of semen $500 Several prog tests and AI $500 Emergency c-section on a public holiday after hours $2300 Stud fee $2500 My girl had 2 pups, both boys. I wanted a girl to continue the line but I am going to be poor anyway so keeping a pup regardless. Toller pups are around $2500, so I have one pup to cover all my expenses ???? Safe to say I am running at a loss and I will happily slap the next person who asks me how much money I am making! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Interesting topic. No response from the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think the OP is just a wind up & someone has a big wooden spoon in their hand :) If not guess they have got the picture now. In general re dogs & breeding people don't really think about the whole subject in depth. That's why they still buy at pet shops etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't bat an eyelid when I see that a responsible, ethical breeder is charging what Joe Public might think is a huge price for a puppy, because I know exactly how much money that breeder has spent already on sound broodstock, health tests, writing off broodstock that hasn't passed the health tests, quality feeding and husbandry, time and money spent in studying the breed and participating in performance or conformation etc. etc. etc. What gripes me is when a BYB or puppy farmer with substandard broodstock, and substandard, even cruel, conditions and total lack of care and backup for puppies produced, charges the same damn price OR MORE!!!. That is truly a rip-off to the puppy buyer, especially when they cross-breed without giving a single thought to future health and well-being. It is up to the purchasers to INVESTIGATE each and every breeder. If they are offering puppies at below the current average breed price, find out WHY before you buy. Same goes if they are charging a lot more for certain colours which seems rife these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I was doing it all wrong. :laugh: Profit would be nice but when you take unpaid leave to raise a litter in the house and give someone else's pet the best possible start, any dreams if $$ quickly evaporate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) This is what I understand my breeder has done with their current litter. I have no idea about pricing, some of these will cost a lot, others might not cost too much if anything, but dogs are in fact this persons business. Importing semen Artificial insemination Pregancy test Feeding increase during pregnancy Pregnancy check Whelping (big litter!) Post whelp health check With the pups as much as possible Feeding Imprinting Vaccinations Worming Health checks Cleaning Socialisation Desensitisation And yet when we were discussing my getting a puppy from this litter (landlord saying no was the only thing in the way), they told me that money was not the biggest hurdle as I had the passion and the drive to learn and train and grow with this dog. If that meant paying the puppy off, so be it. These are incredibly exceptional dogs and would have a price of at least $2k. In the end its not all about that paper for some :) Edited October 21, 2015 by Better Late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 And some of us weirdos take pride in our Cross Breed Scruff Mutts ANKC rego papers enough to want to get them. Even if it is only as an associate and there is no list of parentage. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) IMO I think puppy buyers are lucky that most breeders who pour their heart, soul and money into breeding are not charging what their 'product' really costs in monetary terms. I think if we were forced to do that, the purchase price of many pups would go up significantly. Exactly. Which is why I've sometimes taken the initiative & made a breeder, just like one you've described, take more. And I mean 'made' because that person protests that placing one of their dogs in a home they know will be good, is worth more than the money to them. Now a breeder who values their dogs to that extent, is a breeder who's poured value into all their breeding/raising/managing practices. No surprise I'd just include the extra. We do the same for the pet cats we've adopted from rescues over the years. The rescues get more than what they asked for. Same reasoning .... those people have put enormous work & compassion into what they do. Edited October 21, 2015 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My idiot Shire says to even breed ONE litter I must be registered as a business because I'm making a profit. How ignorant and ill informed they are. If my breeding bitch has 3 puppies I would be likely to lose hundreds if not thousands for the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The ATO doesn't want to know about us. I wish they did so I could claim back all of those expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The ATO doesn't want to know about us. I wish they did so I could claim back all of those expenses. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabel Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 I think the OP is just a wind up & someone has a big wooden spoon in their hand :) If not guess they have got the picture now. In general re dogs & breeding people don't really think about the whole subject in depth. That's why they still buy at pet shops etc. I dont have any wooden spoons. I have been a bit busy and only just read all the responses. thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think the OP is just a wind up & someone has a big wooden spoon in their hand :) If not guess they have got the picture now. In general re dogs & breeding people don't really think about the whole subject in depth. That's why they still buy at pet shops etc. I dont have any wooden spoons. I have been a bit busy and only just read all the responses. thankyou Why is it when an occasional visitor to the forum, posts something that stirs us all up, gets lots of great responses... only comments on the one response that stirred OP up and not the rest of the valuable information provided? Fabel - what do you really want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think the OP is just a wind up & someone has a big wooden spoon in their hand :) How offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panlu Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I'm peeved about having agreed to a 'breeders terms' contract. I paid full price (3K) for the dog, I carry all costs of raising her. Breeder gets a litter (they have up to 12 pups) from her before I can spay her. And I do not get one of the pups. I get zilch. I really wanted the dog and waited for a year to get her, it was either breeders terms or back on the list. Love her to bits but feel like such a mug and would never ever sign a breeders terms contract ever again. Biggest scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I'm peeved about having agreed to a 'breeders terms' contract. I paid full price (3K) for the dog, I carry all costs of raising her. Breeder gets a litter (they have up to 12 pups) from her before I can spay her. And I do not get one of the pups. I get zilch. I really wanted the dog and waited for a year to get her, it was either breeders terms or back on the list. Love her to bits but feel like such a mug and would never ever sign a breeders terms contract ever again. Biggest scam. I wouldn't have signed one on those terms in the first place. But they aren't all like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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