Little Gifts Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lots of good advice in here! All I'll add is stay away from Andonas. Puppy farmer with big health problems in his lines. If you're not set on a pup from a breeder there's heaps of great Amstaffy types (blue and otherwise) in pounds and rescue and the benefit of an older dog is that you know what you're getting temperament and appearance wise. Good luck! Yeh I know to stay away from Andonas. Blue is just my personal preference. Some people prefer black, some brindle, some red etc. not sure why everyone always feels the need to take a big dump and "educate" you on colour preference. I've owned staffs my hole life and my parents are registered breeders of an other breed. Im not exactly going to rock up to a puppy farm or pet shop to purchase a dog. My question was mearly price related. Thank you???? I will be honest, this is what concerned me the most about your original post and lead me to believe you didn't know much about the breed and the whole 'rare blue' issue. If I was in the market for a dog my approach would be to find a breeder who bred dogs I liked the look and behavioural feel of. Then I would wait for a litter to come along that had a pup in it that the breeder and I felt was just right for me. Sure I would have some price parameters and personally I am a little weak for pied staffords, but the starting point to finding a pup sound in body and behaviour is the breeder and the breeding stock they are using. This is a pure bred dog forum and you have been given some good advice from people in the know who were just trying to make sure you got a quality pup at a reasonable price. Not only for your sake but for your future pup's who doesn't deserve to live a life of misery with health ailments. It would be negligent if they didn't make sure you knew that blue can and does come with a myriad of health issues that many good breeders would be breeding to avoid. So if good breeders are avoiding it what does that say about the breeders who are specifically breeding to produce the colour????? Ah yes, we are back to good old money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I'm looking at one pup atm, the guy wants $2800 with papers or is willing to sell the pup for $1600 without papers but with a copy of both parents papers. I'm not planning on breeding the dog so not really fussed about the papers. Is $1600 too much to pay for an un papered pup? my parents are registered breeders of an other breed. Wouldn't you be asking your parents about the price difference and if its acceptable? Seeing that they would know that a difference between main and limited registration is less then $40 If you are close to a registered breeder of any dog breed Im sure they'd be able to direct you and provide you with advice what is acceptable or not. I would be surprised if they put their stamp of approval for a purchase of an unpapered puppy... Edited October 20, 2015 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I think considering all the good genuine advice you have been given you are being a bit harsh. You didn't come over as knowing anything, so why would anyone assume otherwise. If your family are breeders you already know about papers and pricing don't you? Next time you ask for advice people might not be so kind . Edited October 20, 2015 by juice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think considering all the good genuine advice you have been given you are being a bit harsh. You didn't come over as knowing anything, so why would anyone assume otherwise. If your family are breeders you already know about papers and pricing don't you? Next time you ask for advice people might not be so kind . Yes - this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Blue is just my personal preference. Some people prefer black, some brindle, some red etc. not sure why everyone always feels the need to take a big dump and "educate" you on colour preference. Blue in the bully breeds is connected to health problems - especially skin rashes and mange and immunity problems. Blue in Weimeranas - not connected to health problems. Merle in the herding dogs - can be connected with blindness and deafness. If only one parent is merle - you might be ok, but if there's two merle - because the breeder didn't know any better, there's a high risk of problems in the puppies. Merle is really pretty but it can come with problems. And all white boxers have health problems. There are some really pretty poodles called "parti colours" - I don't know if they're connected to health problems, but in some countries - the breed standard requires "solid colours" and other countries - it doesn't. So it pays to find out why people dislike your colour preference. Personally - I have a preference for blue heelers over red heelers and for a symmetrical mask over an asymmetric eye patch, but colour isn't top of my list when choosing a puppy. You can choose by colour first when you're picking wall paper but it's not such a good idea when picking a dog - unless you're avoiding known health risks. I like to pick by: breed first - I like most of the breed tendencies that cattle dogs have. I've lived with a few of them so I'm familiar. I've also lived with Aussie terrors and SBT but they don't appeal to me in the same way. Like you said - everyone has a preference. Then the personality of the dog. the one I have now is from Animal Welfare League - so I didn't get to meet her parents but if I could have, I would have - parent dogs are a good guide to the personality traits you're likely to get in the puppy. I picked the friendly puppy. If I was getting a puppy from a breeder - I'd go find the club, or meet some at a dog show and ask for advice. I'm not that bothered if they get first prize but I do like they care about the breed enough to know all about them and how to breed dogs of good quality with minimum health problems (eg checking ancestral history doing dna tests on potential pairings to avoid problems in the puppies). If your parents are ANKC registered breeders - they should be able to give you lots of info on how to choose and they might even be able to tell you why "blue" in the bully breeds is a bad idea. Ie explain the colour goes with health problems in some breeds. Did you ask them? What did they say? I agree about staying away from breeders where all their dogs live outside in small dog runs all the time and they have lots and lots of breeding bitches, and lots of different breeds. Some of these are ANKC registered but I have trouble understanding how the puppies get enough people time to be pleasant at your place. Some of them don't get enough dog to (adult) dog time to be nice around other dogs either. And I think if a breeder isn't breeding to the breed standard - they should be looking to change it if they think it's wrong. Or breeding something else. Hope you find the right puppy for you, close to where you live and get great support from the breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Not sure if anyone has posted the link to the DOL forum Amstaff thread but here you go anyway My link Any breeder that starts offering discounts for registered or unregistered, I would run a mile.. Good breeders know what their pups are worth and that is what they charge and they will know which is better on a mains or limited register and will do so accordingly. And they don't charge extra for a pup because of its colour - red, blue or brindle, the only difference in price should be because they are pet quality or show quality (just my opinion). The link I added has loads of info on the correct health testing and I even think a few breeders have posted in the thread. Good luck finding a pup from nice lines, with all the health testing done at a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Blue is just my personal preference. Some people prefer black, some brindle, some red etc. not sure why everyone always feels the need to take a big dump and "educate" you on colour preference. Blue in the bully breeds is connected to health problems - especially skin rashes and mange and immunity problems. Blue in Weimeranas - not connected to health problems. Strictly not true - Weimaraners, like many blue dogs, can suffer from thyroid issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Blue is just my personal preference. Some people prefer black, some brindle, some red etc. not sure why everyone always feels the need to take a big dump and "educate" you on colour preference. Blue in the bully breeds is connected to health problems - especially skin rashes and mange and immunity problems. Blue in Weimeranas - not connected to health problems. Strictly not true - Weimaraners, like many blue dogs, can suffer from thyroid issues. Can you reduce the health risk by buying a different colour Weim? I thought blue was it - but I could be wrong. I don't see as many skin problems with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Blue is just my personal preference. Some people prefer black, some brindle, some red etc. not sure why everyone always feels the need to take a big dump and "educate" you on colour preference. Blue in the bully breeds is connected to health problems - especially skin rashes and mange and immunity problems. Blue in Weimeranas - not connected to health problems. Strictly not true - Weimaraners, like many blue dogs, can suffer from thyroid issues. Can you reduce the health risk by buying a different colour Weim? I thought blue was it - but I could be wrong. I don't see as many skin problems with them. I think genetically they are all still "blue". I know the WLH doesn't tend to suffer from thyroid issues which is a good reason to keep them in breeding programs but you probably need a Weim person for detaial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Are Wiemaraners blue though? Their coat colour is different to blue Great Danes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaznHotAussies Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 If your parents are registered breeders they should've been able to tell you it's against the code of ethics to be selling unregistered pups. Especially for a cheaper price than registered pups in the same litter. Disappointing to see all the helpful, friendly advice to be thrown back in everyone's faces. If you're happy with the associated health risks & fully informed it shouldn't bother you to be told the information again. Nobody here was rude and just wanted to help. It's hard to know where a person's knowledge is at from a relatively brief 1st post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lots of good advice in here! All I'll add is stay away from Andonas. Puppy farmer with big health problems in his lines. If you're not set on a pup from a breeder there's heaps of great Amstaffy types (blue and otherwise) in pounds and rescue and the benefit of an older dog is that you know what you're getting temperament and appearance wise. Good luck! Yeh I know to stay away from Andonas. Blue is just my personal preference. Some people prefer black, some brindle, some red etc. not sure why everyone always feels the need to take a big dump and "educate" you on colour preference. I've owned staffs my hole life and my parents are registered breeders of an other breed. Im not exactly going to rock up to a puppy farm or pet shop to purchase a dog. My question was mearly price related. Thank you???? No one "took a dump" on you at all. There are almost 35,000 members and thousands of guests that read this forum every day, there are people here with many years experience in breeding so when you come in and ask a question they're going to answer it with the knowledge that the general public will also be reading. This isn't your Facebook page it's a public forum. What did you expect? People were just going to say " yeah sweet sounds like a good price"? FWIW I have a blue greyhound and a white one, neither are my preferred colour but I chose them on their personality, not because they look pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 If your parents are registered breeders they should've been able to tell you it's against the code of ethics to be selling unregistered pups. Especially for a cheaper price than registered pups in the same litter. Disappointing to see all the helpful, friendly advice to be thrown back in everyone's faces. If you're happy with the associated health risks & fully informed it shouldn't bother you to be told the information again. Nobody here was rude and just wanted to help. It's hard to know where a person's knowledge is at from a relatively brief 1st post. I can guarantee you that from my side, there won't be an opportunity for a repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs Are Forever Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Weimaraners are not blue, they are lilac. Are Wiemaraners blue though? Their coat colour is different to blue Great Danes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Weimaraners are not blue, they are lilac. Are Wiemaraners blue though? Their coat colour is different to blue Great Danes. You're right. Linky I was using the Whippet colour wrongly. Edited October 20, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Are Wiemaraners blue though? Their coat colour is different to blue Great Danes. As far as I know, they come in blue (which can varies heaps in intensity) and isabella, which is blue that also carries liver. Both blue and liver are dilutes so you end up with that really pale blueish-brownish colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs Are Forever Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Isabella (Dilute Liver) The same dilution gene that causes a black dog to become blue also causes a liver dog to become isabella (aka lilac), which is a pale greyish brown. Dilution and liver are both recessive and relatively rare, so isabella is a rarely seen colour. It is, however, the colour of the Weimaraner, and also occurs occasionally in a handful of other breeds (any of the breeds in the list above which carry liver will come in isabella, although if both liver and dilution are rare in the breed anyway then isabella dogs may be barely known or even never reported). An isabella dog will have the genotype bbdd (homozygous for liver, homozygous for dilution). Edited October 20, 2015 by Dogs Are Forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Very interesting about the Weimaraner coat colour, thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 What Raineth said. Very interesting about the Weimaraner colour. And apologies for my crap spelling. So when they talk about "blue heelers" - is that anything to do with the blue gene in the article or something else again. Especially the blue that stumpy tails get? I know cattle dogs can have a bunch of problems with deafness and other genetic stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I suspect something else Mrs RB. I'm not sure but I think the ACD (Heeler) ticking is a gene in itself, like the Merle gene. So whereas in a blue dog each hair is a diluted black (grey-ish) in a Merle dog some hairs are black, some are white and that's what gives the grey effect. I think it might be the same with ticking, so blue and red cattle dogs all have a base colour plus the ticking gene. I'd also assume that the stumpy tail is a bobtail gene, separate from colour, like in various other breeds. Happy to learn if someone has more info tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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