New Laws In Sa

[Willem]

I sent an email to these guys:

Paul Ciaica <[email protected]>

environment minister of irresponsible comments <[email protected]>

Martin Hamilton Smith <[email protected]>

The more different people who write the better, with individually crafted emails - not just form letters - the better.

State what you want.

State why you're writing.

Provide your argument and support

Try to keep it short. (me fail)

Keep it calm and polite (it's easier to understand the message).

So what I want is no mandatory desexing. Or exemptions for people who want to do dog sports or have a large breed dog (until 18 months old) and I want Government subsidy of desexing - make it cheap and easy for people to do the right thing.

I want better education around desexing and factors leading to dog bites eg leaving visiting children unsupervised with your dog - bad idea.

why

Health problems for large breed dogs and sport dogs.

the dog bite stuff is just fear mongering with out context

and I cited a bunch of factors that lead to dog bites and that it's possible to own a well behaved entire dog.

That France and Germany can have entire dogs in the city without everyone being terrified of being bitten.

I also provided a bunch of information supporting the health benefits of owning a dog.

Martin Hamilton-Smith (Waite) is quite keen to reduce the health budget - cos SA can't afford it. Especially with the increasing cost of health problems related to obesity and aging. Walking a dog keeps you younger and fitter longer.

I put Paul Ciaca on the list - cos he regularily walks his Cavs on Tennyson beach.

this is the list of ministers with contact info

https://www.sa.gov.au/directories/government

This is a list of elected reps. If you poke around in there - you can find stuff about electorates - to figure out which one is the right one for you.

http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/Members/HouseofAssembly/Pages/List%20of%20Members.aspx

PS here is a bit of help for finding your electorate

http://www.ecsa.sa.gov.au/electoral-boundaries/find-my-electoral-district

and you can write to anyone in the SA Senate aka LC Legislative council - they all represent all of us.

Eg Kelly Vincent represents disabled people and some of them need dogs. And an early desex on a Labrador is bad.

...that's a very constructive and well-thought-out approach

[sas]

As a Rescuer and a Showee I sit on both sides however for the health of the dog I do not agree with early de-sexing, there are enough studies now for us to be forced to consider this information, there are also other techniques that sterlise the dog without removing its hormones that can be done until the dog has finished growing.

"I don't think they can do a vasectomy or a tube cut on an 8 week old puppy"

Thankfully yes they can, a number of breeders are doing this already for their pet puppies however more Vets need to come onboard.

I worry that the general public get brain washed into de-sex everything and do it now without really thinking about it, dogs don't get pregnant by themselves. There has been so much scare mongering over the years that people think that every en-tact bitch is going to be impregnated by the local neighbour dog.

IMO this is a band aid to appease animal activists who really haven't thought through the bigger picture - it's impossible to regulate this and therefore does not make irresponsible dog owners act any differently.

Edited October 15, 2015 by sas

[denali]

I don't think they can do a vasectomy or a tube cut on an 8 week old puppy

That's the problem.

I don't mind getting my dog desexed - I just don't want it done until she's 18 months old and done growing properly.

They can :)

Its not a common practice though.

[Mjosa]

I have been reading this thread with interest.

This bill has NOT yet been presented to parliament.

This afternoon I was listening to ABC radio and they had Felicity Ann Lewis, the chair of cat and dog management board on plus a veterinarian who is on the vet board, very interesting to see how her attitude changed when the vet gave statistics on the aggression/biting of undesexed dogs.

The Vet board here did some research over a period of 12 months with the Women and Childrens hospital, 95% of the bite cases presented were that of a family or friends dog and that the children had provoked the attack, so amongst that % there would have been desexed dogs and bitches.

He pointed out the dangers of desexing puppies before sale, they could die with the procedure being done so young, can lead to all sorts of problems later, said it was better to have them done at around six months of age when they are able to cope, suggested that the breeder consults with their vet as to what the best age would be for being desexed, all breeds are different, mine recommends not before nine months with my breed, all pet puppies sold from here go with a desexing contract.

Then the chairwoman said "well the breeders could get a letter from their vet stating the age that they deem acceptable for particular breeds to be desexed" sounds more reasonable to me.

This is what Victorian breeders do, get a letter from the vet stating that the puppy is too young to be microchipped when advertising them for sale, so as it can be shown to council etc., who needs to know.

So let us all sit back and see what comes of this, she said that the bill will be presented at the end of the sitting term at the end of the year, if passed, now it has to be passed, it would not come into law until the middle of next year.

[OSoSwift]

It's all a bit of a sad comedy really.

The kinds of people who breed the dogs that end up dumped don't vaccinate or microchip now. What kind of lunatic thinks they're going to spend money on desexing?

Without enforcement all these laws will do is punish responsible dog breeders and buyers (and pups) for the behaviour of irresponsible people who will continue on their merry way regardless.

Exactly!

[Steve]

My link

Pros and Cons

[Steve]

I have been reading this thread with interest.

This bill has NOT yet been presented to parliament.

This afternoon I was listening to ABC radio and they had Felicity Ann Lewis, the chair of cat and dog management board on plus a veterinarian who is on the vet board, very interesting to see how her attitude changed when the vet gave statistics on the aggression/biting of undesexed dogs.

The Vet board here did some research over a period of 12 months with the Women and Childrens hospital, 95% of the bite cases presented were that of a family or friends dog and that the children had provoked the attack, so amongst that % there would have been desexed dogs and bitches.

He pointed out the dangers of desexing puppies before sale, they could die with the procedure being done so young, can lead to all sorts of problems later, said it was better to have them done at around six months of age when they are able to cope, suggested that the breeder consults with their vet as to what the best age would be for being desexed, all breeds are different, mine recommends not before nine months with my breed, all pet puppies sold from here go with a desexing contract.

Then the chairwoman said "well the breeders could get a letter from their vet stating the age that they deem acceptable for particular breeds to be desexed" sounds more reasonable to me.

This is what Victorian breeders do, get a letter from the vet stating that the puppy is too young to be microchipped when advertising them for sale, so as it can be shown to council etc., who needs to know.

So let us all sit back and see what comes of this, she said that the bill will be presented at the end of the sitting term at the end of the year, if passed, now it has to be passed, it would not come into law until the middle of next year.

Not sure that sitting back and waiting to see what comes of this is wise if someone wants to impact on whether it will be passed. Surely now is the time to not sit back and better for people to contact those who will be part of the voting to ensure they get what they are voting on other than the submission as it will be presented.

[Mjosa]

DogsSA are working on their submissions re the desexing, also the Australian Veterinary Assoc.,

I agree with desexing pets as I have seen my breed go from being almost rare to flavour of the month, but not a blanket rule as to what age for it to be done.

When I bought my first French Bulldog there were only three or four breeders Australia wide, and I see that DOL have listed 200 breeders admittedly I got my first 33 years ago and the 200 mentioned here is just a drop in the ocean of the real figure on people breeding this breed.

[Steve]

DogsSA are working on their submissions re the desexing, also the Australian Veterinary Assoc.,

I agree with desexing pets as I have seen my breed go from being almost rare to flavour of the month, but not a blanket rule as to what age for it to be done.

When I bought my first French Bulldog there were only three or four breeders Australia wide, and I see that DOL have listed 200 breeders admittedly I got my first 33 years ago and the 200 mentioned here is just a drop in the ocean of the real figure on people breeding this breed.

desexing pets wont help because the people who are breeding them can still breed them if they say they want to breed them or if they are registered breeders . If DOL has 200 breeders thats the same 200 breeders who will still be breeding them if pets have to be desexed. Might stop a handful of people who have a l;itter or two BYB but the 200 plus which are registered or puppy farmers will breed more to fill the gap.

Leaving it up to the AVA or Dogs SA leaves a lot out too.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

If you want a say in what they pass - legislation wise - you have to act now - before it's passed.

Waiting - is like saying - I'll let them pour the concrete and then see if it's in the right place - after it sets.

The government has really put a lot of effort into this but then allowed decisions to be made by people who don't have access to the right science. There was a citizen jury member in here - and we pointed out the problems with early desex there and yet they only had two exceptions made (breeders and farmers) - WTF. Not ok.

So many unwanted farm dogs out there too - why should there be an exception for them - it allows them to become puppy farms I they want to.

Glad to see that the minor version of a desex can be done on 8 week old. got a couple of questions - anyone know which vets in SA do that and will a bitch still have seasons if they've had their "tubes tied".

[Willem]

...some more information about spaying with focus on the medical procedure: My link...the author might be a little bit biased, but it still makes interesting reading...

[Mjosa]

Noahs crossing in Lewiston does tubal ligation and yes the bitch will still have seasons, he does the vascetomys as well on puppies at around 8 weeks.

[Willem]

Noahs crossing in Lewiston does tubal ligation and yes the bitch will still have seasons, he does the vascetomys as well on puppies at around 8 weeks.

...that My link gives a nice summary of the advantages of vasectomy and tubal ligation ...

[_PL_]

I think if there is still neglect and abuse going on and not enough resources to even chase up microchipping then what is the point of adding more things to the ever growing list of already unenforceable legislation. Most animal stuff seems to rely on the activists and the public dobbing each other in.

It occurs to me though that all varieties of breeders are lumped into the 'Evil' basket so anything that mentions regulating breeding instantly gets support. With very few actually reading the fine print. I still have to explain to people that if a puppy farm is a business operating under local, state & fed regulations then it's completely legal.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Ok

the mandatory spay neuter has been tried in (parts of?) the USA and in the ACT and it didn't work there.

It's a good point that you suddenly make poor people into criminals for not desexing their dog and having puppies deliberately or accidentally.

For some reason we don't impose rules like that on the humans. At least not so far. Can you imagine what would happen if we stopped people who couldn't afford to raise their babies or had no idea how to do a good job or just not capable, from having them? At the same time - we could make birth control a lot easier and cheaper to get - but we don't do that either.

So something that some areas have done (tho I don't know where) is - to get your dog out of the pound - is the same cost as the rego fee. Instead of what happens some places where the rego fee piles on the boarding fees and the fine for wandering dog... And when you register the dog - you get a voucher for free desex and microchip?

Might end up with fewer animals in the pounds that way.

I still think all dogs should be microchipped before they can be rehomed (for a price or for free). It just makes finding who they belong to so much easier if they get lost.