CHA Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 From your dogs? I have a terrier who keeps finding and disposing of them. How do I train her to "leave". If we see one and we are all there, I can be fairly sure get her to leave it if she's not over stimulated by it, but when I'm not there she munches them.. We have tried putting them in our neighbours dogless back yard, but they come back!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashling Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I used to have terriers and sadly I couldn't seem to do anything as they'd always seem to find them again. They were the best most loving dogs ever but that terrier instinct was so strong. If I had them today I'd keep them inside a lot more or supervise when outside like I do my Lab (ironically who wouldn't even hurt an ant) but not sure if that would be possible? Hopefully someone else has some other solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I have a whippet here who will kill them too, and I'm pretty sure he will attack a snake if one comes in. Lucky for him the only one I know that he's attacked so far was a copperhead which is not an aggressive snake. I love the blue tongues and hate to think of my dogs killing them. I saw a video where dogs are trained by conditioning with an electric collar to fear snakes. I'm sure it could be applied to any scaly animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashling Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I remember hearing something about training dogs to fear snakes too for safety reasons if they ever come into contact with one. I think it's a great idea but I imagine not so easy to really do? Perhaps you could contact a trainer and ask if they have any training methods specifically for terriers keeping away from lizards? I know Victoria Stilwell likes using the method of loud scary noises to stop a behaviour like hitting cooking pots together but making sure you aren't looking at the dog so they don't connect the scary noise to you but to whatever it is they are doing in that moment. I'm not sure if something like that might work. With the terrier instinct, I'm not really sure if there's a lot that can be really done since it was what they are bred to do, but there might be some ways to at least try and you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 My SBT girl is the same. She's only caught three in 16 years but having your skull ripped from your head cannot be a nice way to die. She has perfect response to the leave command but it always happens when we are not home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 With snakes and lizards (and rabbits) I've been going to the local store that has a couple of each and been clicker-training the dog to come over to me when she smells/finds. There's been a few snake bites too close to my walking areas for comfort. While I don't think it would work if the snake/lizard/rabbit is already running (especially if I'm not there to call it off), I am hoping in theory if she stumbles across a snake/reptile "chilling" while on a walk she will turn around and come to me for her treat. Doubt it'd work if I'm not there tho. a JRT without you around sounds a mite bit more difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I really don't know if you can do anything TBH. You could try fencing off the gardens where the lizards hang out, but unfortunately, that's part of owning terriers. We've lost numerous blue tongues and birds (from mynas to natives) because my Aussies get them but luckily, more often than not it's the mynas that get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) The trouble with trying to train out the behavior using aversives like shocks or noises is that you really need to be able to apply the aversive every time the dog sees the thing you want then to leave alone until the dog decides it is only ever going to get that negative consequence and leaves the thing well alone OR the aversive has to be massive enough the first time that the dog won't risk trying again. And how each individual dog feels about what is 'massive enough' varies a lot. If the dog only gets the aversive when you are there to see it spotting the lizard it's entirely possible that the rest of the time when you are not there the dog will either a) realize that the aversive doesn't come when you are not there or b) decide that the chance of the aversive coming even if they don't realize where it is coming from is worth risking for the chance of the rewarding kill they may achieve. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense Conditioning the dog to see these creatures as something other than prey as Thistle is doing may well be more effective as when you are applying positive consequences they are actually more effective when not applied every time so if you can reward enough for not going into prey mode when you are there you have a chance of the dog responding in the same way when you aren't there. All depends on how prey driven the dog is though, and especially if they have already achieved one or more kills and found it super rewarding it could be next to impossible to train out unfortunately. Edited October 13, 2015 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 catch a blue tongue and use 4 pet panels for a square to keep it safe from the dog; then train the dog - make sure the dog doesn't see you - with an electro or non barking collar. Do some last tests without the panels / pet fence. That's what they do to train dogs to stay away from snakes...obviously it is not so easy with snakes, and they have a special smell, so I guess dummies don't work for snakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 This is similar to the video I've seen before. I cant find the original one. They use shock collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara and Sam Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If you know the areas the blues are you can also place around some plastic pipes , so they can hide and take shelter that was the easiest way for me to keep my dogs away from them cocker spaniel was the worst , she could smell? them before I spotted what she was after and could catch them and remove to safer grounds we had one blue that would poke it's head out from a old tree stump , see the dogs then retreat if saw the dogs my shade house has the plactic pipes amongst the pots as that is where they seem to love as it cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The best tip I saw was to give them a source of water in the garden so that they don't have to come out into the open to find it. You're basically asking a terrier to ignore its hard wired prey drive. The ONLY way I think you'd do it is with strong aversives. Not something I'd be trying, especially if it fails because a lizard killed while you are out is not something you can "correct" for afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Thanks for your ideas guys, I've put strategic hiding spots round the garden for the lizards but I was wondering if I was only encouraging them to come in. The last few years' lizards have been pretty tame, probably because they were there before the terrier and knew our other dogs were no real threat. The new one this season seems quite quick and more aggressive, so maybe it will be smarter than the others, hopefully. I tend to keep the dogs locked inside on very hot days in case of lizards and koalas in the garden, to try and keep everyone as safe as possible. Terriers are amazing dogs, but the need to kill things I find a bit distressing and try to not let it happen. Edited October 13, 2015 by CHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Short of giving the lizards a brain transplant there is not much you can do if you are not there. I would rather my dogs killed lizards than train them not to using shock collars or other nasty methods. A dish of water in the garden is nice but snakes like drinks of water too. I had to cut the chicken wire fence to rescue a stuck one yesterday. It had stressed & done a huge poo, was disgusting I think the dogs were after the poo not the lizard but they did back off when I yelled. I catch them in a bucket & put them outside but they always come back in. My dogs bark at them & chase until I tell them off & say leave but I think they are really scared of them as they never get too close. Little poodles are not very brave. No easy fix for your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The only time I've come across the dogs with a blue tongue in the yard I could hear Quinn doing a steady but excited "woof woof woof" bark that she doesn't normally do. I called her to come in and be quiet a couple of times but she didn't come and kept barking so I went out to find Quinn, Riley and the lizard standing in a triangle all looking at each other. None of them knew what to do :laugh: Same happened with a little green tree frog. Not so much prey drive in this house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 the whippets I had before these ones had a natural fear of snakes (and I would assume lizards) and kept well clear of them. It was good because I used to get alot of tree snakes in Qld, I even had a whopping python living in the roof cavity of my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 This is a big problem for me, I have two hounds and a terrier so nothing is safe in my yards. I have cut my yard in half so there is a wild part that sometimes has a snake and lots of lizards, I also have my front yard fenced off as well and have a huge Bluey that lives in the front yard. The other day I caught Anna with a bluey tail in her mouth. I try to get them before they are hurt and Im in the yard with them when they are out but sometimes they get something. Cedro is good he drops but Anna and Gilly just kill and throw. I hate it. I have put safe places for lizards all over my bottom yard with wood and hollow logs and water as well. They will always come here because I have paddocks on one side and behind my place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) ....I have put safe places for lizards all over my bottom yard with wood and hollow logs and water as well. They will always come here because I have paddocks on one side and behind my place. I don't believe that this is a good idea as it will also provide perfect hiding places for snakes. It will also attract their prey (mice, lizards of cause, etc.). While you don't like seeing your dogs killing lizards, for sure you don't want your dogs to be killed by a venomous snake. The more your place suits the lizards and blue tongues, the more they are attracted and the more will be killed at the end.. Edited October 13, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) This is similar to the video I've seen before. I cant find the original one. They use shock collars. ...I thought about getting some 'rubber' snake dummies to start snake safe training, but I assume it would be pretty useless and the video confirms it: the biggest risk for the dog is when she is chasing things while running through higher grass where she just follows the smell (we have red belly black snakes, brown snakes and tiger snakes here). The video shows that they train the dogs to back off when they smell the snake (which makes absolutely sense). wrt negative comments about the use of electro collars / shock collars: IMO it is just a tool and using it for training the dog to stay away from snakes is - IMO - the best approach as it is fast and effective learning and might save the life of the dog. Positive reinforcement for all other training, but dealing with snakes is a different picture, and if it is done as shown in the video by professionals it won't hurt the dog (or the owner) and will prevent a lot of grief. Edited October 13, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) ...that's a little bit more comprehensive YouTube clip from the same guys in Perth ...(sorry for hijacking the "blue tongue lizard thread - I guess you could use the same trainings methodology for them so....) Edited October 14, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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