Willem Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm planning some trekking tours and thought about letting the dog carry her own water, food etc...I hope some forum members can give me some advice regards: I read somewhere that the load shouldn't exceed more than 25% of the dog's weight? ...she has approx. 17 kg now, so that would be 3.4 kg max (with backpack); that's enough for approx. 1.5 l water, food for 2-3 days, treats... suitable backpacks: ...from AU$ 19 incl. shipping on eBay to AU$ 140 (from Waggle, incl. shipping) for a Ruffwear Approach - that's a pretty steep price variation. I read the reviews on the Ruffwear website and while the quality is obviously far superior to the ones offered on Ebay, some BC's owners who bought the Approach mentioned that they had problems to find the right size for their BCs (S too small, M too big). Has anyone (preferable BC owners) experience with the Ruffear Approach? I guess I try a cheapo from Ebay first and see how I goe, if it fails the worst case is that I have to carry 2-3 kg more (sound not much, but I recall cursing every gram in my backpack when I did some trekking in the Peruvian Andes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 How old is your dog ? My guess is she will need to be mature, very fit, be free of HD etc , and have conditioning before you actually buy a backpack . to train her with ? Sounds a good adventure :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think the Ruffwear backpacks have those nice very well made Ruffwear harnesses under them, and you can take the saddlebags off and just have the harnesses? I have an Aussie and I find Ruffwear equipment to fit superbly. You can't just put the the back packs on at full weight either, you put them on empty and slowly increase the weight (filled evenly on both sides) as the dog gains the muscles to hold them. As perse says too, on an adult dog with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would assume increased weight & hiking would = increased calorie consumption & would cancel any benefit out. Personally, I think I'd rather just let the dog enjoy the hike & not worry about complications for the sake of 3 kilos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I've got a ruffwear backpack on the way to me for serious camping (we are up to 5kg, she can do 8kg safely), but for a small/medium dog who's only carrying a couple of things I think something like the Kurgo backpack (about $40, can be found in most pet stores) could suit. I've got one for short trips when not carrying much and find it very adjustable. As above, slowly increase weight. Don't go straight to wearing a backpack at full weight or your dogs balance will be all off and risk of injury higher. They also need to get used to their new width ;) But backpacks are a blast, I find mine really likes "the job" and it makes me feel better not having to carry ALL the water. Edited October 12, 2015 by Thistle the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 ...just noticed ...25% x 17 kg ....that's 4.25 kg ...so it is even a little bit more than the 3.4 kg I mentioned in the starting thread; yes, I'm aware that I have to increase the weight slowly, that's another reason for trying a cheap one first...she might not like it at all. I saw a few other brands on Amazon, e.g. this one Pettom...cheaper than the Ruffwear Approach, but some nice features, but they don't ship to down under.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I don't have border collies but I do have the Ruffwear saddle pack, I've had it for several years now. I really like it and both my dogs enjoy/ed wearing it. Both dogs had quite different body shapes and it still fit them nicely. I wouldn't buy a cheaper version, as it would be far more likely to have poor ergonomics and could end up hurting your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I would look at the RuffWear Pallisades backpack. You can take off the saddlebags and you are still left with the harness. So if you find you don't use the saddlebags very much you can still get use out of the harness http://www.ruffwear.com/Palisades-Pack_2 I have a Julius K9 harness that has removable saddle bags. Our harness isn't fitted quite right and I'm getting a new one but I wouldn't use this type of harness for trekking or hiking. I would be getting one like the Ruffwear for sure. Edited October 12, 2015 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would look at the RuffWear Pallisades backpack. You can take off the saddlebags and you are still left with the harness. So if you find you don't use the saddlebags very much you can still get use out of the harness http://www.ruffwear.com/Palisades-Pack_2 I have a Julius K9 harness that has removable saddle bags. Our harness isn't fitted quite right and I'm getting a new one but I wouldn't use this type of harness for trekking or hiking. I would be getting one like the Ruffwear for sure. I thought about it ...but the Palisades cost even AU$ 100 more (AU$ 240 incl. shipping from Waggle) - I have to sell my camper trailer to afford this :D ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm planning some trekking tours and thought about letting the dog carry her own water, food etc...I hope some forum members can give me some advice regards: I read somewhere that the load shouldn't exceed more than 25% of the dog's weight? ...she has approx. 17 kg now, so that would be 3.4 kg max (with backpack); that's enough for approx. 1.5 l water, food for 2-3 days, treats... suitable backpacks: ...from AU$ 19 incl. shipping on eBay to AU$ 140 (from Waggle, incl. shipping) for a Ruffwear Approach - that's a pretty steep price variation. I read the reviews on the Ruffwear website and while the quality is obviously far superior to the ones offered on Ebay, some BC's owners who bought the Approach mentioned that they had problems to find the right size for their BCs (S too small, M too big). Has anyone (preferable BC owners) experience with the Ruffear Approach? I guess I try a cheapo from Ebay first and see how I goe, if it fails the worst case is that I have to carry 2-3 kg more (sound not much, but I recall cursing every gram in my backpack when I did some trekking in the Peruvian Andes). Get a mule!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 ....Get a mule!! ...are they cheaper :laugh: ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I would assume increased weight & hiking would = increased calorie consumption & would cancel any benefit out. Personally, I think I'd rather just let the dog enjoy the hike & not worry about complications for the sake of 3 kilos. Agree. Dogs are not built like horses and while there are draft dog breeds, they pulled weight rather than carried it. A BC is not such a breed. Either buy the best harness around and let the dog carry light stuff or let him/her run without weight. A cheap backpack won't be cheaper than chiro etc if you end up injuring the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 they are not built like horses ...no, but still they are meant to carry some weight from time to time; think about wild dogs, wolves etc. that have to carry quite heavy prey over significant distances to feed the young ones... and they even don't have the luxury of a fancy sattle backpack :laugh: ... ...even Cesar Millan encourages it (ok... business for him...): Cesar Millan Dog backpack. She is a healthy dog, full of energy, the parents are working dogs - I can't see that she would have any trouble of carrying some weight (as long as it is not overdone). wrt cheap or not cheap backpack: a backpack can be pretty expensive (and that can be justified by the material, overall quality and finish), however, if it doesn't fit it is not better than a cheap one. There is a review on the Ruffwear website from a BC owner who had problems to find the right size (S too small, M too large), so expensive doesn't mean automatically better. A cheaper one that fits properly - but falls apart after a few trips - can be better than an expensive one that doesn't fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 You've obviously made up your mind :) Yes- wolves & dogs can carry /drag prey ..but that is using their jaws/neck muscles . Just make sure your girl is checked out by a good chiro beforehand ..and don't forget the training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) they are not built like horses ...no, but still they are meant to carry some weight from time to time; think about wild dogs, wolves etc. that have to carry quite heavy prey over significant distances to feed the young ones... and they even don't have the luxury of a fancy sattle backpack :laugh: ... ...even Cesar Millan encourages it (ok... business for him...): Cesar Millan Dog backpack. She is a healthy dog, full of energy, the parents are working dogs - I can't see that she would have any trouble of carrying some weight (as long as it is not overdone). wrt cheap or not cheap backpack: a backpack can be pretty expensive (and that can be justified by the material, overall quality and finish), however, if it doesn't fit it is not better than a cheap one. There is a review on the Ruffwear website from a BC owner who had problems to find the right size (S too small, M too large), so expensive doesn't mean automatically better. A cheaper one that fits properly - but falls apart after a few trips - can be better than an expensive one that doesn't fit... Never seen a wolf or a wild dog carry the weight of heavy prey on its back. As for Cesar Milan - you'll find out soon enough he's not got a lot of credibility with many DOLers. Personally I find the idea of adding weight to a dog to wear it out as a training method to be a very blunt instrument. Never forget that you are asking a dog to do something it was not bred nor conformed for. If you are going to do it, find yourself a good canine chiropractor. Regular visits will ensure that you pick up any issues with doing this EARLY. Edited October 12, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I have used mine for years without any problems. Mainly on my old male dog, probably only about three times a week. But having said that, I never had anywhere close to 25% of his body weight in it. I think the most he carried was 4kgs, plus the weight of the back pack, which is very light; another reason to get a good quality one. His weight varied a lot but at his smallest 25% would have been more than 13 kgs! That is far too heavy. Edited October 13, 2015 by raineth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I have used mine for years without any problems. Mainly on my old male dog, probably only about three times a week. But having said that, I never had anywhere close to 25% of his body weight in it. I think the most he carried was 4kgs, plus the weight of the back pack, which is very light; another reason to get a good quality one. His weight varied a lot but at his smallest 25% would have been more than 13 kgs! That is far too heavy. ...I guess the biggest risk for injuries comes from jumping ("second law of motion"), that is where even a small weight can cause a damaging force. Hence once I would start her training with some weight in the bag I wouldn't allow her off leash (off leash only with an empty bag at the beginning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I have used mine for years without any problems. Mainly on my old male dog, probably only about three times a week. But having said that, I never had anywhere close to 25% of his body weight in it. I think the most he carried was 4kgs, plus the weight of the back pack, which is very light; another reason to get a good quality one. His weight varied a lot but at his smallest 25% would have been more than 13 kgs! That is far too heavy. ...I guess the biggest risk for injuries comes from jumping ("second law of motion"), that is where even a small weight can cause a damaging force. Hence once I would start her training with some weight in the bag I wouldn't allow her off leash (off leash only with an empty bag at the beginning). While jumping would be a problem, I think it's not the whole story. You do have to be careful about the weight on their backs. The packs are not designed like a saddle with a gullet that prevents weight being placed on the spine. If your dog's back is narrow, there is less weight distribution. For instance, I put less weight in my Dane's pack than my old boy's, becuase her back is much narrower. I really love the backpack, but I would be very weary about putting anything clo to 25% of the dog's body weight into it, even with a slow build up. I have put a photo up to give you the idea of his size, and I only had him carry about 4 kgs. Edited October 13, 2015 by raineth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I have saddle bags for my GSD. I use it when I take him hiking and to carry some water, his water bowl and some first aid items. The advantage I found was when we started the walk ... the extra weight he was carrying slowed him down a little bit but as we got closer to the end of the walk when he was getting a little tired, the water was all but gone so the weight was much less. My boys are working line, very fit and very high energy ... Make sure the bags fit well and each side is even in weight ... and keep checking to make sure they are not getting too hot under the pack. Also be aware water sloshes around a lot ... so I found collapsible water bottles (1litre or smaller) better as you can squeeze the extra air out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 the cheap (< AU$ 18) backpack I ordered via eBay for some testing arrived...the findings so far: quality wrt finish and material is pretty good for the money; fits perfectly when she stands; doesn't fit when she is running (leg pits and belly strap too tight respectively slips into the pits); doesn't fit when she sits (leg pits and belly strap too tight); size 'S' I ordered seems to be too small for her (nothing left for further adjustments), however, also with longer straps the problems mentioned above would still occur (too tight or too loose depending on posture); so overall totally uncomfortable for her; It has the same strap arrangement like the Ruffwear Approach; I can't see that the Ruffwear would address these issues as - IMO - it would require some stretchable straps that give a little bit way when she is running or sitting. It might be a BC specific issue (narrow but high chest)? ...I guess I give up on this idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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