aussielover Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I stupidly said i would enter a rally o trial with a friend in November. So now I need to teach my dog to heel (amongst other things) I'm looking for some resources to teach a dog to heel. She will walk along side me but I don't think she really understands the meaning of heel position. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Oooh we started learning a concentrated heel (fus?) this week. I'll come back after lunch with the links I've been reading up on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I stupidly said i would enter a rally o trial with a friend in November. So now I need to teach my dog to heel (amongst other things) I'm looking for some resources to teach a dog to heel. She will walk along side me but I don't think she really understands the meaning of heel position. Thanks she doesn't need to be in perfect heel position, just on a loose lead :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You could try Susan Garrett's "Re-inforcement Zone" method also known as RZ. Kikopup's loose lead walking methods are similar. RZ start with the dog in a sit, you stand next to dog, (click) treat, 5 x maybe. Then take a step forward, if you have to release from sit - say your release word first... Hopefully your dog will step forward with you. Or you can encourage a bit - that's ok in rally... then five more treats for dog stepping with you. Do some heel work and dish out treats - touch your hip (for a tall dog) then deliver the treat - as long as the dog is in the right spot. Eventually - with lots of rewards for dog being by your side... you will be able to step in any direction and the dog will stick to the reinforcement zone. And then you need to start rewarding average or better and fading out the treats (personal fail). But we also practice heel work with a cup full of treats and after a pattern is done, I say "yes" and we run to the treat cup for treats. More recently - I've been practicing whatever training drills I want out in the back yard, and then sending her to her dinner (which she watched me serve up), when we're done. This causes much frustration and a huge effort in self control for my dog - that can only help when in the ring. It also helps her work with me without treats on me or in sight. But Rally is pretty fun - cos you can talk to your dog and pat them. eg if they get on a bit of a surge - you can call them back. This is what RZ training looks like (no that's not me). If the dog is really low to the ground, you can use peanut paste on a wooden spoon to extend your reach. Note if dog's butt starts swinging out - try rewarding on the outside of their face ie rewarding between you and the dog can send the dog's butt out, but rewarding with the treat on the far side of the dog from you, can bring the butt back. And then you have to just go "oops" if the butt swings out or the dog starts cutting in front of you (touching the treat to the hip before delivery helps avoid the cut in front problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'd look up the Michael Ellis stuff. He has a DVD out, but I think you can get a lot of his stuff on demand too. Forrest Mischke (sorry, the spelling isn't right) used to work for him and has some amazing stuff on YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Thanks guys! This morning I taught her to pivot on a target (the lid of a toy container) for rear end awareness but I'm not sure how to translate this into left hand turns etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm not sure how to translate this into left hand turns etc. Perch work is good - helps your dog understand she has a back end. Teaching a back up is good too. And hand targeting. Always try to "reward in position" ie dog should not have to move out of the place you want them in order to get the reward - so for back up - I toss cookies between my dog's front legs as she's backing up. Best if they stop under the dog and not so far behind the dog she spins around to chase it. But I got the left turns by rewarding "stuck to my leg" eg if the leg goes back - so does she and she has to keep her butt in so if I pivot so does she... good fun stuff. I have a sort of wave and "get your butt" in to encourage that so a sort of waving the fart away signal has become the signal for her to back around as I pivot. Haven't figured out how to get leg weaves with me going backwards or her going backwards all the way around me tho one time we did do a backwards pivot so fast she over took me - but I get dizzy really quickly doing stuff like that. Doesn't seem to affect her tho. If I didn't have the slowest up load speed I'd try posting some video. But I just don't have the patience for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleo's Corgwyn Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Grab me at agility, and I'll give you some pointers, or we have Obedience Triallers class at BDOC on Tuesday nights. A couple of us did an intro to heeling workshop for the club's new Rally folk recently, and I can send you a copy of the document I put together for that, if you like. The Fenzi Academy have some great online courses - the Precision Heeling course started today, and is still open for enrollment; My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Grab me at agility, and I'll give you some pointers, or we have Obedience Triallers class at BDOC on Tuesday nights. A couple of us did an intro to heeling workshop for the club's new Rally folk recently, and I can send you a copy of the document I put together for that, if you like. The Fenzi Academy have some great online courses - the Precision Heeling course started today, and is still open for enrollment; My link Enabler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I forgot to come back, I am finding this video a useful reminder as it's basically what my trainer has told me to do. Granted, we're not aiming for any competitions but such a close heel has practical uses! We are only up to going around in circles on a platform... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 interesting video thistledog. I never would have thought of doing that tho I do know a lot of people use a foot target (ie a flat perch) to get a nice straight in front for a formal front recall. I would wrap any books up in a cloth, bath towel etc to prevent dog accidentally turning the pages or getting paper cuts. You can also get sample squares of artificial grass which are good for target work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 interesting video thistledog. I never would have thought of doing that tho I do know a lot of people use a foot target (ie a flat perch) to get a nice straight in front for a formal front recall. I would wrap any books up in a cloth, bath towel etc to prevent dog accidentally turning the pages or getting paper cuts. You can also get sample squares of artificial grass which are good for target work too. Good idea! I think it's also to practice her moving back end but not front end? She's not very good at it yet XD But itty bitty shaky steps. At least it is getting her closer to my body, normally it's a nice heel but she's further away than should be (not as ?tight? as I'd like?) Woops sorry to hijack aussie! I hope your heels go better than ours XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think it's also to practice her moving back end but not front end? It's good for a dog to practice body awareness - especially back end awareness... I just never thought of using it directly for heel work. I do ask my dog to keep her butt straight when she's heeling - so where ever I go - forwards, backwards, sideways away from or towards her and me pirouetting clockwise and anti clockwise. No treat unless, your butt is in the right place... It's a fun game. We started (after a year and a bit of yank and crank learning not much), with sit (reward 5x) then one step (reward 5x)... Also practice about turns, left and right and finishes front or round the back... and those weird about turns where the handler turns into the dog but the dog goes around behind and comes up on the left again. And if you want to do agility or dances with dogs - remember to practice on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks to the enabling on this thread, I have just signed up for Fenzi's online course on Precision Heeling (Bronze). The problem I have with my girl, is because I have taught her dance moves, everytime I have her in heel position & go to move my leg backwards to either heel backwards or pivot, she immediately thinks that I want her to do reverse circles around my legs Anyone else had this problem....it is very cute & SHE thinks she is being very wonderful & it is hard not to smile at her :laugh: She will never make it with obedience either, because apart from this, when she drops, she immediately crosses her front paws. I guess if I want to do heeling with her at Rally - O level then I will just have to take her back to tiny steps till I can put a different cue on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I can't get mine to do reverse circles, she stays stuck to my leg - cos that's what I've trained. I think you'd have to put the all the way round on cue/signal that is different to your leg going back and then work on something different. Maybe start with one step at a time? back ups. And her on lead so she can't go all the way round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I would treat it like any other exercise sheena - if the dog isn't offering the correct behavior it doesn't understand what is required. (A bit like how show dog people sometimes say they never train their dogs to sit in case they sit in the ring. That will never be a problem if the dog has a solid SFE) Aussielover IME a month really isn't enough time to train trial level heel work - though it also depends I guess on the criteria you have and what your goal is for the end picture. Edited October 3, 2015 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 yeah I know a month isn't really enough. My main aim for this trial is to have her not run off and not jump all over me (she jumps up on me when she's bored or doesn't understand what is wanted) or bark too much. I'm not planning to do formal obedience in the near future so I suppose an informal heel will suffice. Actually, just staying with me and not running off to chase birds would be a good start! Although, I did want to maybe do some obedience in the future when shes too old for agility, so am hoping that teaching a heel is something you can come back to. Sadly I have a feeling its a bit like contacts in agility- you never really get it 100% if you don't train (and maintain) it properly from the start. Oh well, Mindy is my first sport dog and we just like having fun and a laugh :) Maybe my next dog will be better trained lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I think for rally - all you have to do is keep a loose lead, with maybe a 1.2m lead? And you can talk to your dog as much as you want, pat your side etc... The trick is to pay attention to the signs and actually know what they mean and do what they say. And make sure you can do everything in the basic / beginners list. I haven't entered any formal rally trials but always do well at the mock trials. If you can get your dog to work with you without treats - there's a good chance you will pass. And you get "do overs" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I agree with MRB you don't need a tight heel position for Rally. Ideally yes you should train for one but I have seen plenty of dogs who can't heel well enough for an obedience round get through a rally round with something resembling attentive loose lead walking. Not saying I would do it but if thats your aim then its possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleo's Corgwyn Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 A month isn't enough from scratch, but you already have nice focus, and a good relationship, and rally allows you to use both of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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