OSoSwift Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that? Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that? Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues Sure but with no cause? I just wonder how many can be attributed to harnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie33 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that? Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues and also with neck injuries. A roo jumped out on us on our walk this morning and if my dog had been just on a collar she would have strangled herself (they are very exciting) I had been reading this debate earlier and was thinking about maybe trying just her collar instead of her harness but am very glad i didn't. Everything has a good and bad side, all equipment (even a collar and lead) is restricting. You just need to make your decision, buy the best quality you can and go with it. in my opinion :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie33 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that? Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues Sure but with no cause? I just wonder how many can be attributed to harnesses. Well said :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascalmyshadow Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I think there are good harnesses and bad ones, I think it all depends on the size and shape of the dog however the sporn, haltis and choke chains are something I would never use on any dog. I did years ago until I found out how bad they are. Any training device can be misused including flat collars but the three above are known to be damaging even when used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 I think the conclusion to the article sums it up nicely: Like so many of our equipment choices, there are cases for and against using a front-clip or other no-pull harness. Each of us must consider the benefits and risks, and make an educated decision based on what is best for us and our own dogs. Denial of risk is not the way to deal this. Analysis of risk vs benefit is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie33 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I think there are good harnesses and bad ones, I think it all depends on the size and shape of the dog however the sporn, haltis and choke chains are something I would never use on any dog. I did years ago until I found out how bad they are. Any training device can be misused including flat collars but the three above are known to be damaging even when used correctly. I couldn't agree more. I actually annoys me when people slate front connecting harnesses when the ones they have seen in action are very cheap chinese copies with dodgy rings that have been slung togther cheaply and sit way too low. You get what you pay for, if you want a good quality well fitting harness that sits high so is not too restrictive then pay a little extra and get one. rant over lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I'm not sure that saying people should just "train their dogs" and singling out any one tool as problematic benefits anyone. The fact is plenty of people just don't, and won't, put effort into training their dogs like we do. There are better options than these harnesses - that's the point of the article. They are promoted as "kinder" than traditional control tools. Fact is they aren't and it's another factor people need to consider when selecting how they walk their dogs. I agree that any walking is better than leaving a dog in the backyard 24/7 but the benign reputation these harnesses have is undeserved. That was the point of my post. The fact that the RSPCA now promotes these as the default option of anyone walking their dog is deeply concerning. I don't see that the article suggests any other options than just "train it". And like I said previously I'd like to see a comparison of the harm vs benefit of all the tools available before I'd agree that it is fact that these harnesses are not "kinder" than other tools like check chains and prong collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Obviously training to walk without pulling is the key but a lot of people don't train their dogs correctly. I recently attended a public dog event and saw lots of dogs pulling their owners around choking because of collars. Some of these dogs were then fitted with harnesses and it was great to see them them walk away nicely without choking. Many well known trainers around the world are using front connecting harnesses for example Victoria Stillwell. Contradictory studies come out all the time - just look at coffee - one day it's good next it's the worst thing in the world ! I find it hard to believe that a harness on for 30 minutes a day could do serious damage if correctly fitted. And yes I walk 2 Borzoi and a Lappie together with harnesses with loose leads. I have watched them very closely since first reading Dr Christine Zink research and I have yet to see any change in their gait. As others in this thread have said - if it means a dog can have a pleasant relaxing walk without choking on a harness then surely it has to be better. And the question no one ever seems to ask is WHY? It's not magic that's involved. If I fitted a dog with front leg hobbles it would 'walk nicely" too. This is the same principle applied to the dogs shoulders. I'm not quite sure what you mean by front leg hobbles but if this was the case after these dogs had been properly fitted then surely they won't have been able to walk nicely. And when I said walk nicely I meant with a nice normal gait and in some cases a doggy smile and tail wag. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I think there are good harnesses and bad ones, I think it all depends on the size and shape of the dog however the sporn, haltis and choke chains are something I would never use on any dog. I did years ago until I found out how bad they are. Any training device can be misused including flat collars but the three above are known to be damaging even when used correctly. I couldn't agree more. I actually annoys me when people slate front connecting harnesses when the ones they have seen in action are very cheap chinese copies with dodgy rings that have been slung togther cheaply and sit way too low. You get what you pay for, if you want a good quality well fitting harness that sits high so is not too restrictive then pay a little extra and get one. rant over lol Exactly - that is why it's important to find the right harness for your dog - there is a huge difference between the shape of a staffy and the shape of a tall sighthound but I have seen both with different but correctly fitting harnesses that don't impede shoulder movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that? Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues Sure but with no cause? I just wonder how many can be attributed to harnesses. You are probably never going to know. I just get frustrated when people use such things and don't put the effort into training them. I would put the effort into training asap rather than risk injury from using a front attach harness - or head halter. My dogs see roo nearly every time we walk. They are super dooper exciting as are rabbits. They jump up and down on the spot,squeak and yell but still dont hit the end of their leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie33 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that? Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues Sure but with no cause? I just wonder how many can be attributed to harnesses. You are probably never going to know. I just get frustrated when people use such things and don't put the effort into training them. I would put the effort into training asap rather than risk injury from using a front attach harness - or head halter. I was watching some kids yanking a poor dog around on a choke chain the other day, I felt so sorry for the dog but thats the general public for you. I would have much rather seen that dog in a harness back or front connecting just to take the pressure off its poor neck. There will be analysis done on harnesses i am sure at some point until then who can say if they are better or worse we just need to do what we think is best for our own dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Susan Garret advocates the use of head halters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 I don't see that the article suggests any other options than just "train it". And like I said previously I'd like to see a comparison of the harm vs benefit of all the tools available before I'd agree that it is fact that these harnesses are not "kinder" than other tools like check chains and prong collars. Did you read the conclusion? Like so many of our equipment choices, there are cases for and against using a front-clip or other no-pull harness. Each of us must consider the benefits and risks, and make an educated decision based on what is best for us and our own dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashling Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Well I braved it. Just took him for a walk on just his collar, though I took the harness with me incase we came into any trouble. Didn't take any treats with (haven't for a few months now) and we didn't come into too high distractions (other dogs). I had to tell him stop and then wait until the leash was loose again about 5 or 6 times. Not bad! He wants to be a sniffer dog and this is our biggest issue walking, he won't pull me forward to a smell but he gets very determined to stay at one or go back to one if we walk ahead (he doesn't mark) So that was a little tricky a few times when he jerked my arm back. Apart from that though, he felt pretty weightless just like on the harness. Seems my boy has matured (he's a year and a half) and our training with the harness has paid off. The last time I tried this it was horrible. I'll keep working on it and see if I can introduce some distractions rather than get caught off guard. Curious... what do people recommend when jogging with a dog? We haven't yet as his joints develop but would like to start soon. A back attach harness or a collar? Edited September 30, 2015 by Ashling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I don't see that the article suggests any other options than just "train it". And like I said previously I'd like to see a comparison of the harm vs benefit of all the tools available before I'd agree that it is fact that these harnesses are not "kinder" than other tools like check chains and prong collars. Did you read the conclusion? Like so many of our equipment choices, there are cases for and against using a front-clip or other no-pull harness. Each of us must consider the benefits and risks, and make an educated decision based on what is best for us and our own dogs. Yes but how is that suggesting that there are better options than no pull harnesses? It's saying we need to consider the benefits and risks of using them, which of course we should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just out of interest- what harnesses are recommended? Not for pulling, but for general use. I find a lot of harness have too much material and seem quite heavy and hot for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just out of interest- what harnesses are recommended? Not for pulling, but for general use. I find a lot of harness have too much material and seem quite heavy and hot for the dogs. Any Y-front harness that doesn't impede movement. If you want something with less material the Hurtta Y harness is very lightweight. There are many good Y harnesses in the market that are not bulky. Chris Zink had a few suggestions here but I think any properly fitted Y fronts would be fine. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2bvu0r7eYOvTmhmZlNFYWhRSkU/view?pli=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just out of interest- what harnesses are recommended? Not for pulling, but for general use. I find a lot of harness have too much material and seem quite heavy and hot for the dogs. Any Y-front harness that doesn't impede movement. If you want something with less material the Hurtta Y harness is very lightweight. There are many good Y harnesses in the market that are not bulky. Chris Zink had a few suggestions here but I think any properly fitted Y fronts would be fine. https://drive.google...RSkU/view?pli=1 Your review of Y front harnesses was very good, You should post it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 After trying a few restraint options I currently walk Weez in a blackdog tracking (y-front) harness. It's pretty good, my only small issue is some fabric sticks out the side which looks weird but probably doesn't affect anything. I still walk Chess on a sighthound collar but might buy her a y-front harness too if I ever have some spare spondoolies. I don't really care if he pulls though. He only walks on lead 1-2 times a fortnight, he mostly runs around nude in paddocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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