Impact Of No Pull Harnesses On Dogs

[silentchild]

I don't think Y-front harnesses are a problem and Chris Zink actually recommends them in another article. So I think the Ruffwear is fine unless there is constantly tension on the leash if you use the front ring as the constant pulling on one side of the shoulder would cause harm.

[Cosmolo]

Just wanted to add- there is no perfect piece of training equipment.

To answer the question- why not use a martingale collar- I often do. But some dogs simply don't respond to a martingale giving the handler a far more limited window of opportunity to reinforce.

What is the purpose of training equipment? To provide opportunities for reinforcement. We should use equipment that maximises these opportunities wherever possible.

[Leah82]

I'd be interested in what people think of this no pull harness that we use with Collie.

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=3470&ParentCat=202

It's designed to tighten around the girth, bit like a martingale but for the chest instead of the neck. we find it gives us more control of collie's movements than a martingale as he can't actually see where he's going.

there is a front attachment as an option to use in conjunction with the back attachment but we don't use it

[Airedaler]

Train your dog- let them enjoy their walk and romp naturally.

OK but the point is some people ARE training their dogs, using a front attach harness, whether you deem it right or wrong, its still ONE method which may work for some.

Honestly if the harness is the difference between a dog getting out of the house for a walk to the park a day or not getting out at all and being crammed in a courtyard all the time I feel like the latter has the potential to be much more damaging on more levels.

Not every training tool suits every dog, its said here often and it stands just as much. I can understand the concerns, and if they're not for you that's totally fine but there's been some very valid reasons for using them listed here.

Is it a valid reason if the harness is causing problems for the dog. Isn't that putting training at any cost above the welfare of the dog? Surly it would be more appropriate to use a method of training that does not harm the dog.

[Steph M]

But not every method works for every dog, and training the dog to walk on a lead and get out of the house is also in the dogs best interest.

All I'm saying is I think sometimes we have to pick the lesser evil.

[Salukifan]

But not every method works for every dog, and training the dog to walk on a lead and get out of the house is also in the dogs best interest.

All I'm saying is I think sometimes we have to pick the lesser evil.

The lesser evil AND training.

Too many of these "training aids" go on the dog for life.

How often do you see double leads on dogs in these or on haltis. The combinattion that does my head in is these "tools" and extender leads.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[Steph M]

YES! Absolutely! As said a few pages back one is redundant without the other!

[Simply Grand]

Extender leads left to extend are problematic no matter how they are used, and down right dangerous if a dog is allowed to reach the end of it and 'snap' back. I doubt any trainer would not strongly warn against using them, particularly if the dog has pulling or any control issues.

People do plenty of dumb and potentially damaging things with their dogs, especially if they are going without any professional or knowledgeable guidance.

Plenty of people use check chains, prong collars, e collars and even flat collars wrong as well and cause damage to their dogs.

I'm not sure that saying people should just "train their dogs" and singling out any one tool as problematic benefits anyone. The fact is plenty of people just don't, and won't, put effort into training their dogs like we do.

So do what do we do? Say take your dog out and exercise it even if you can't control it? Say don't take your dog out unless you have committed to training to walk properly on a flat collar or Martingale first? That's not going to happen in many cases. Get rid of harnesses and have only check chains readily available as tools to try and manage a dog that doesn't walk nicely on a flat/martingale collar?

I'd like to be able to weigh up the big picture of the costs vs the benefits of all the different tools available as well as how much the various tools available make the difference between a dog being walked or taken out at all or not, and which of those scenarios is more detrimental to the dog.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Simply Grand

[Ashling]

The way my boy wears his harness loose is kind of like a loose t-shirt, he moves in it easily but if we come across something where I need to hold him a bit tighter it's like been grabbed by the shirt and you feel it pull on you a bit making it tighter so you can't move further forward as easily?

People say to train your dog and there are many methods that might work for different dogs and yes it takes a lot of time, effort and lots of patience. Sadly a lot of people don't have this. But even with that, the fact is that my boy is very big, very strong and if he wanted to he could pull me onto the road. I've taught him not to but if he was on just a collar and saw something like another dog since he's so friendly, he just might pull me, in the past I've fallen over just by losing balance when he was excited at something.

It's not that easy for some people. Yes I need to keep training him and one of these days I hope I'm brave enough and he's trained enough not to be on it. Maybe people who can't just train their dog to walk perfectly on a flat collar shouldn't have these big dogs in the first place but then little dogs can pull just as hard if they've got that chest/shoulder strength. I don't know. I wish there was an easier solution. If I'm damaging my boy I would be very upset but he seems happy on it and I don't see it hurting him or preventing his movement as he walks but it's there so that I can hold his whole body back if I need to whereas if I did that to just his collar it would choke him and he'd pull me over.

I don't know. I feel like I don't do enough so that he just doesn't ever get in an excitable situation. I could be out there for a couple hours or all day exposing him to everything, the look at that game and whatever else. I should do that but it's hard and I fall over trying. Still, I should try harder. I want him off that harness whether it is damaging him or not.

[Salukifan]

I'm not sure that saying people should just "train their dogs" and singling out any one tool as problematic benefits anyone. The fact is plenty of people just don't, and won't, put effort into training their dogs like we do.

There are better options than these harnesses - that's the point of the article.

They are promoted as "kinder" than traditional control tools. Fact is they aren't and it's another factor people need to consider when selecting how they walk their dogs.

I agree that any walking is better than leaving a dog in the backyard 24/7 but the benign reputation these harnesses have is undeserved. That was the point of my post.

The fact that the RSPCA now promotes these as the default option of anyone walking their dog is deeply concerning.

[Salukifan]

The way my boy wears his harness loose is kind of like a loose t-shirt, he moves in it easily but if we come across something where I need to hold him a bit tighter it's like been grabbed by the shirt and you feel it pull on you a bit making it tighter so you can't move further forward as easily?

If he's wearing the harness loose, it sounds like it won't work as it should when needed. He's also very likely to be able to get it off.

For situations like this, one lesson with a decent trainer would give you a good head start.

There is a reason horses are led by the head, not by the body - control the head, control the animal. A harness gives a big dog more scope to pull.

Much as I dislike halts - i think a halti and a flat collar might give you better control (and confidence) than you have now.

[Ashling]

Perhaps it's that he's trained on it not to pull because when he wears it he feels weightless. But if you connect the collar you really feel him. Maybe it's psychological/conditioning for him? It definitely gives me more control being around his body though rather than chocking his neck and feeling all his strength if he gets excited at something.

The one that goes around his snout I've tried but it left a mark I didn't like and he seemed uncomfortable. With the harness he can walk out in front or by my side or behind with ease and the leash is always loose. The best thing I've learnt with him is to just keep walking past any excitable situations and pretend like they're not even there. If I tense up or anything he seems to lose attention on me. I might brave it to see how it goes but I know from the past that he is just so strong when the leash is attached to his collar. He also has a way to slip out of his collar somehow. I have a quick release martingale I can use but I don't believe it helps with any pulling with him from my experience.

The vets I've been to say that they don't like dogs being led on collars because they see a lot of neck/throat damages.

[Willem]

I ordered a Petsafe Easy Walk harness and a Petsafe Martingale collar from amazon for our BC - package arrived yesterday. I don't like the harness, IMO it just doesn't fit properly. It is the right size and I tried every possible adjustment, still it doesn't look right. However, my wife did a test walk yesterday (with the dog :laugh: ) and she loves it.... no pulling at all. The result could also be an outcome of my intense leash training I did over the last week so.

I prefer the Martingale collar (the one that comes without the quick snap buckles - I don't trust them), just slips over the head and I can adjust it that it even doesn't choke her. It sits loose and comfortable when she doesn't pull and firm if she pulls, the collar is pretty wide (1") and tough made - close to perfect for me.

[sparkycat]

Obviously training to walk without pulling is the key but a lot of people don't train their dogs correctly.

I recently attended a public dog event and saw lots of dogs pulling their owners around choking because of collars. Some of these dogs were then fitted with harnesses and it was great to see them them walk away nicely without choking.

Many well known trainers around the world are using front connecting harnesses for example Victoria Stillwell.

Contradictory studies come out all the time - just look at coffee - one day it's good next it's the worst thing in the world !

I find it hard to believe that a harness on for 30 minutes a day could do serious damage if correctly fitted.

And yes I walk 2 Borzoi and a Lappie together with harnesses with loose leads. I have watched them very closely since first reading Dr Christine Zink research and I have yet to see any change in their gait.

As others in this thread have said - if it means a dog can have a pleasant relaxing walk without choking on a harness then surely it has to be better.

[Salukifan]

Obviously training to walk without pulling is the key but a lot of people don't train their dogs correctly.

I recently attended a public dog event and saw lots of dogs pulling their owners around choking because of collars. Some of these dogs were then fitted with harnesses and it was great to see them them walk away nicely without choking.

Many well known trainers around the world are using front connecting harnesses for example Victoria Stillwell.

Contradictory studies come out all the time - just look at coffee - one day it's good next it's the worst thing in the world !

I find it hard to believe that a harness on for 30 minutes a day could do serious damage if correctly fitted.

And yes I walk 2 Borzoi and a Lappie together with harnesses with loose leads. I have watched them very closely since first reading Dr Christine Zink research and I have yet to see any change in their gait.

As others in this thread have said - if it means a dog can have a pleasant relaxing walk without choking on a harness then surely it has to be better.

And the question no one ever seems to ask is WHY? It's not magic that's involved. If I fitted a dog with front leg hobbles it would 'walk nicely" too. This is the same principle applied to the dogs shoulders.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[Cosmolo]

Headcollars have their issues too- every tool does!!

And a comparison to hobbles is a bit of a long bow to draw imo.

Awareness of every tools faults is a good thing. But I am tired of seeing tool after tool demonised for different reasons. All have their place.

[Dame Aussie]

Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that?

[Steph M]

Headcollars have their issues too- every tool does!!

And a comparison to hobbles is a bit of a long bow to draw imo.

Awareness of every tools faults is a good thing. But I am tired of seeing tool after tool demonised for different reasons. All have their place.

Yes. I've heard of people misusing crates or locking dogs in ones way too small. Ever seen a dog with a flat collar that's cut it's neck? Or a check chain left on that's caught on something? Everything has the potential to be misused.

[Dame Aussie]

Headcollars have their issues too- every tool does!!

And a comparison to hobbles is a bit of a long bow to draw imo.

Awareness of every tools faults is a good thing. But I am tired of seeing tool after tool demonised for different reasons. All have their place.

Yes. I've heard of people misusing crates or locking dogs in ones way too small. Ever seen a dog with a flat collar that's cut it's neck? Or a check chain left on that's caught on something? Everything has the potential to be misused.

Working in a shelter I saw plenty of dogs with collars so tight they had cut into the flesh

[OSoSwift]

Wouldn't we be seeing huge amounts of dogs with major mobility issues if such popular harnesses were so damaging? Are we seeing that?

Lots of dogs every day attend vet hospitals with muscle tendon and joint issues