Brooker Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Hello, I have a pure bred English staffy who is 8 years old. She was diagnosed with immune mediated polyarthritis Christmas Eve 2014. She was on high doses of prednisolone for a few months before the side effects got too bad and we had to start her on cyclosporine. We have since been giving her a human brand of cyclosporine, neoral 100mg capsules. Which my vet gets from the next door human chemist each time I need them. The cost is $439 for a packet of 30 which lasts 15days (approx a fortnight) As you can imagine (or by by doing the maths) this is costing us an absolute fortune! She has been on this medication since march. We do not have pet insurance and it would not be possible now that it is an existing condition. The specialist wants her on it for two years! I am wondering if being a human medication that I can somehow claim it under Medicare? Does the vet write a script to get it from the chemist? And is this script written in my name? At $439 a fortnight I would quite quickly be over the Medicare threshold. Also would I be able to get a print out with this medication listed (under my name) from this chemist at tax time? To claim medical expenses for the year? Any thoughts or feedback would be a great help. I wasn't sure where or who to ask about this. As I'm sure Medicare wouldn't help if I tried asking them directly. I love my dog to bits & will find the money to pay for it for her as long as needed. But financially there must be something we can do to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 OMG, that is really expensive, so sorry to hear that. I can't say for sure but sometimes you can find compounded medication that is equivalent to canine medications. I know of dog rescuers who have utilised this as an option. Maybe contact a compounding chemist (some will post out medications) and explain what medication / dosage your dog is taking and see if they can reproduce that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellejaytee Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Unfortunately no, you can't do that. Doing so would be fraudulent. There is no way a chemist would be willing to put your name down for a pet's medication. I would guess that the chemist would sell the medication to the vet, the vet then dispenses it to your dog. I work in a medical related field, and often when people have no benefits left on their private health insurance, I've been asked whether I can just put the claim through as another family member's on the card. Absolutely not. When it comes to medical related stuff, including medications in your case, everything has to be done by the book. Another option, probably one you're not keen on if you're happy with your vet - can you call other vets in your area and find out what they would charge for the same medication? It might just be that your vet is charging you what the medication costs them, but you never know until you ask around. Our former vet charged something like $220 for a check up for our dog and antibiotics. A friend took 2 dogs and 2 cats to her vet, they all had check ups, vaccinations, and 2 got antibiotics for less than what it cost us just for antibiotics. It's worth shopping around especially if this is an ongoing cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Re the Tax question - no you can't do that. Medical expense claims have changed. My Accountant told me that because I have made medical claims each year (over $2000) for a few years that I'd be able to claim for Tax Year 2014 - 2015 but after that, the Government is stopping all medical tax claims. I also don't believe that a Pharmacist would do something fraudulent which is what you'd be asking unfortunately. Years ago I had a dog on Thyroxine for Thyroid, I didn't know it was the same meds for dogs as humans and was paying quite a bit for it. Someone told me that my vet could write a prescription that I could take to a pharmacist (in my dog's name) and get the prescription filled so that's what I did (my vet wasn't happy so you can just go somewhere else) and it saved me a fortune. Edited September 14, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 My vet will happily write a script for most medicines you can get from the chemist. I know shes not alone. It usually reads: "Scottie (My surname) DOG" Medicine name Dose FOR ANIMAL USE ONLY. She wont do it for antidepressants but will for most things she wont dispense often or you need urgently. I do know another vet who will do it for Prozac & Valium so i suppose it depends on the vet. Id be asking for a script in this case so you can chemist shop. Id explain its simply a cost cutting exercise. You cant claim it on medicare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I was in a similar situation a few years ago and even with getting the human version of the medication (which wasn't much cheaper) there was no way to claim it back. Also I doubt pet insurance would have covered it either from what I've read here. Thankfully my boy was only on it for four months and it did the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 is there a university vet clinic you could go to ? A second opinion may help with medication choice ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denali Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Yes, i would ask for a script and get direct from a chemist. I would say the vet is charging a bit extra ontop of the drug cost. We charge $9.90 at our vet to give scripts to take to chemists, and each one has 3 repeats. Usually always works out cheaper :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffikki Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 There may be other online places where if you supply a script you can get medications much cheaper, but here's the one I know of. though haven't actually used it myself. Atopica(Cyclosporin) is much, much cheaper than you're paying :) Atopica at Petceutics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Yikes! have you checked if you're getting the Generic or 'plain brand' version of that medication if it exists? Sometimes the price difference for the same medication is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooker Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thanks for all your prompt responses, I truelly greatly appreciate it. I wasn't meaning to try do anything fraudulent. I just think the system is not right sometimes & there should be some way to be able to claim when you are in this situation. To me my dog is a family member, & not just a pet. They should be entitled to something, to help them. I know there would be a lot of people out there who wouldn't be willingly to go to such extremes for their animals. We went with the human version of the medication as it is a lot more easily available & we didn't want to be caught in the situation of not being able to obtain any in a hurry. I was also told it was cheaper... I found the online pet chemist Petceutics after posting (which raffikki has mentioned). I have tried emailing the information to my vet & asked if they would be willing to write me a script so that I can order online. The medication is half the price for the same brand. Hopefully we can go down this avenue and if so I wish I knew about this 7 months ago I guess if worse comes to worse & my vet isn't willing I could try another vet. Thanks. It has been virtually impossible to find info anywhere on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Your vet should be able to put you on the comfort club with atopica where the 2nd box is free and then I think it's every 5th box is free. It costs nothing for the clinic they need to contact the Novartis Rep. So Atopica is actually cheaper.. and what is even more cheaper is feline atopica which comes in a liquid form. It comes in 17mls as the larger bottle. See if your vet will dispense that instead - it s the equivalent of human neoral. A bottle of that is cheaper per dose than the tablets. Remember this is 'off label' use though so your vet may not do it.. you also don't qualify for the comfort club so really the comfort club is the best deal to get the cheapest per dose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Your vet should be able to put you on the comfort club with atopica where the 2nd box is free and then I think it's every 5th box is free. It costs nothing for the clinic they need to contact the Novartis Rep. So Atopica is actually cheaper.. and what is even more cheaper is feline atopica which comes in a liquid form. It comes in 17mls as the larger bottle. See if your vet will dispense that instead - it s the equivalent of human neoral. A bottle of that is cheaper per dose than the tablets. Remember this is 'off label' use though so your vet may not do it.. you also don't qualify for the comfort club so really the comfort club is the best deal to get the cheapest per dose. oh! That would have been handy to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 is there a university vet clinic you could go to ? A second opinion may help with medication choice ? There is no other medication choices for IMPA - it is cortisone, azathioprine and the chemo drugs like cyclosporine. I had a dog with IMPA but managed on cortisone alone with some azathioprine so cannot assist with cheaper sources. I know I was thankful for having pet insurance as I think I spent about $5k in around 21 months - and that was 7 years ago. Just wanted to wish you the best though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooker Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thanks everyone. I really should have looked into this months ago, but at the time I was more concerned with just getting her better. Her medical bill since diagnosis at Christmas (including all tests etc) is Considerably more than that (x7), it pains me to think of it (or mention). But I wouldn't change my choice to get her better. I am just more educated now and may look into cheaper methods if I had to do over. Yes you are right Danois, there are only the drugs that you have listed to treat IMPA. The Prednisolone was enough to get in control of the IMPA on its own, but her body couldn't tolerate the steroids any longer. She was on the brink of irreversible liver damage & being a staffy had bad muscle wastage which began affecting her ligaments & joints. The specialist was concerned about weaning her too quickly in case of a relapse, saying that 6 months is the minimum remission time. She had only been on it for 3 months. So we had to add the cyclosporine. I personally think she may have been fine to wean at that point, but went with the specialists advice. The specialist ended up re-nigging & has now said she wants her on it for 2 years. After a lot of research and discussions with other professionals in the area I have decided to begin weaning her gradually now. But she is still going to be requiring it for sometime yet before we can have her completely off. Just to give her body time to adjust. Good news the vet has agreed to write me a script & I am on my way to pick it up now :) Thanks for everyone's help & handy to know about the comfort club etc. a is there a university vet clinic you could go to ? A second opinion may help with medication choice ? There is no other medication choices for IMPA - it is cortisone, azathioprine and the chemo drugs like cyclosporine. I had a dog with IMPA but managed on cortisone alone with some azathioprine so cannot assist with cheaper sources. I know I was thankful for having pet insurance as I think I spent about $5k in around 21 months - and that was 7 years ago. Just wanted to wish you the best though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 To buy Shock's medications would cost me about $300 a month from the vet, so not as bad as yours but still pretty exxy. Instead, my vet writes me a script, I walk next door to the chemist and get it myself (or go to a discount pharmacy for even better savings) and it costs me about $100 a month instead. Definitely worth it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Good news! Yes to weaning gradually. You need to avoid something like an Addisonic episode. And good to hear vets are understanding it - 8.5 years ago the vets I was seeing missed the diagnosis despite him presenting with classic symptoms. I got told he had ED/HD and should spent a bucket xraying. I knew it was not that and found a vet who knew more and was willing to listen. Edited September 15, 2015 by Danois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 http://cimda.co.uk Have you found this resource? I used it when it was a Yahoo group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooker Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Yes the cimda.co.uk forum has been absolutely fantastic & been such a massive help for me. It is a must for anyone with a dog with an autoimmune disease. Unfortunately local numerous vets and those at the animal emergency hospital I was using initially had no clue. I ended up diagnosing her myself. Even then I had to insist on the joint tap test to be done as they said 'no that won't be what's wrong with her'. I was adamant the test be run immediately. So glad I did because we got the diagnosis Christmas Eve & began pred. She had been hospitalised for two weeks, had a sky high temp, & wasn't eating or drinking. I hate to think what may have happened if it got to Christmas break when no help was available. Even after the diagnosis the local vet I was using I now know was not educated in the condition and made multiple bad judgement calls which affected her recovery. The same vet was the one who I believe caused her to get impa in the first place by prescribing her an antibiotic that was related to Cephalexin which my girl is allergic to. I always ask to make sure when she gets any drugs that it is not related to Cephalexin, which I did ask this time. Since her diagnosis I have read text books, research papers etc, anything I can get my hands on impa and al things related. So I have a much better understanding now to not let this happened again. As far as my understanding with the weaning it is only important in terms of their adrenal glands being giving a chance to produce cortisol again properly on their own (to avoid having an addisonian chrisis) when weaning steroids. The cyclosporine does not have the same effect on their adrenal glands. The slow weaning for cyclosporine is more in terms of gastro upset & my girl is also really sensitive. We also don't want to risk her relapsing so slow is better. Edited September 15, 2015 by Brooker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Great Danes don't cost that much for this medication so your dog shouldn't. Got to a compounding chemist :) Edited September 15, 2015 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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